[Taskmaster]

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1536377

NICE

[hassmaschine]

meh - he gained 4whp over his non-E85 tune. Doesn't seem worth the cost and poor fuel economy.

[hassmaschine]

Don't get me wrong, 252whp is pretty darn good!

I think 300whp without opening up the motor is a pipe dream, though. I bet he tops out at ~260whp with MILVS. none of that other stuff makes any difference. That seems like it should be plenty of power in a 128i though!

[atmosphericM]

I thought the .5mm MILVS were worth 8 whp? So the 1mm version should be worth more?

And secondary delete has shown nearly 10 whp, and I think that was without headers.

So maybe he'll hit 275 if he is lucky.

I still don't think E85 is worth it for N/A applications, though.

[hassmaschine]

yeah but mods don't stack like that.

[atmosphericM]

He's hoping for 300 whp N/A. I didn't have the heart to tell him... lol

I'll be amazed when I see a 275 whp N/A N52.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by atmosphericM

He's hoping for 300 whp N/A. I didn't have the heart to tell him... lol

I'll be amazed when I see a 275 whp N/A N52.

I think someone did hit about 300whp, but they had the valvetronic locked to full open and had ITB’s on it. It was a track car 128 and not something that sounded livable as a daily.

I bumped the thread a few months ago I’ll post a link if I can find it again...

Edit:

Here it is...

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=737221

[atmosphericM]

Haha yeah now I remember that.. okay okay I should have specified on a daily driver.

[Alexdevera]

I saw that he's running S65 injectors. What exactly is the purpose of that? AFR related perhaps?

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Alexdevera

I saw that he's running S65 injectors. What exactly is the purpose of that? AFR related perhaps?

They inject more fuel than the oem set...
I myself, am running an e40 mix because anything more than that and the AFR would lean out too much.

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by Noir

They inject more fuel than the oem set...
I myself, am running an e40 mix because anything more than that and the AFR would lean out too much.

The stock 24lb injectors tap out around 300rwhp on 5bar of rail pressure (pump gas)

If you ran full e85 on the stock injector, you would need around 22 - 30% more fuel to equal the same rwhp as pump gas. So the max hp you can make on full e85 and stock injectors is 225rwhp (@80% duty).

With our e85 testing we've done on the n52, we've maxed out the injectors at 89% duty and made 237rwhp. (3 stage intake, stock exhaust manifolds). So if you want to run e85 your going to need to upgrade the injectors in order to get max power out of the setup.

Is it worth running e85 on an na setup like the n52? Yes if you want to see the max hp you can get out of an unopened engine, but you are going to be capped at around 260rwhp and in order to make anymore power, custom cams or power adder is going to be needed.

The n52 is close to the s54 in respect to head design, and intake valves are close as well (35mm vs 34.2 on the intake) and (30.5 vs 29mm) on the exhaust. But where the s54 really shines is the max lift (12mm vs 9.8mm) on both cams, the compression of the engine (11.5:1 vs 10.7:1) and displacement (3.2L vs 3.0L. Most full bolt on s54 I tune (cold air, headers and exhaust) make right around 300 - 315rwhp and with a CSL intake and a set of cams around 330 - 350rwhp.

I think if you can get a proper set of cams made for the n52 and using the revv happy n54 intake we can see 300rwhp on pump gas.

[hassmaschine]

MILVS give about 11mm of lift though - so that's closer, but still less than the 12mm of lift of the S54.

[gT-BMW]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

MILVS give about 11mm of lift though - so that's closer, but still less than the 12mm of lift of the S54.

I dont think milvs add duration either

I always knew there was more in the N52 all it needs is a good set of cams. I dont know what material the n52 cams are made out of but i used delta in the past to do custom regrinds on steel core cams for me in the past with great success

http://deltacam.com/

[Biginboca]

300rwp N/A on Pump Gas!

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by gT-BMW

I dont think milvs add duration either

I always knew there was more in the N52 all it needs is a good set of cams. I dont know what material the n52 cams are made out of but i used delta in the past to do custom regrinds on steel core cams for me in the past with great success

http://deltacam.com/

S54 Int 260 Exh 260
N52 Int 255 Exh 263

S54
Camshaft spread, intake (crankshaft degrees) 130-70
Camshaft spread, exhaust (crankshaft degrees) 128-83

N52
Camshaft spread, intake (crankshaft degrees) 120-50
Camshaft spread, exhaust (crankshaft degrees) 115-60

Having that larger exhaust valve and extra lift really helps.


EDIT: forgot to add the n54 exhaust cam is very close to a s54 exhaust cam, only if it had the lift to match.
Camshaft opening angle, exhaust (crankshaft degrees) 261
Camshaft spread, exhaust (crankshaft degrees) 130-85
Max Lift 9.7mm

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by gT-BMW

I dont think milvs add duration either

I always knew there was more in the N52 all it needs is a good set of cams. I dont know what material the n52 cams are made out of but i used delta in the past to do custom regrinds on steel core cams for me in the past with great success

http://deltacam.com/

Sure they do. In fact, they pretty much have to. The change in rocker ratio means the valves will open earlier & close later because the increase affects every position of the cam, not just peak lift.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

And only on the intake.

getting an exhaust cam made would be easy though.

The interesting thing is the N5x engines have more Vanos adjustment than any past BMW engine. but the S54 can retard the intake cam another 10 degrees. I always wanted to try re-timing the cams, almost none of the maps go as low as 50 degrees anyway.

[CobraMarty]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

The stock 24lb injectors tap out around 300rwhp on 5bar of rail pressure (pump gas)

If you ran full e85 on the stock injector, you would need around 22 - 30% more fuel to equal the same rwhp as pump gas. So the max hp you can make on full e85 and stock injectors is 225rwhp (@80% duty).

With our e85 testing we've done on the n52, we've maxed out the injectors at 89% duty and made 237rwhp. (3 stage intake, stock exhaust manifolds). So if you want to run e85 your going to need to upgrade the injectors in order to get max power out of the setup.

If the stock N52 injectors are 24lb/hr, max 300rwhp at 5 bar pressure,
What is the flow rate, lb/hr, of the larger M3 injectors used in the Turbo and Supercharged N52s?

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

If the stock N52 injectors are 24lb/hr, max 300rwhp at 5 bar pressure,
What is the flow rate, lb/hr, of the larger M3 injectors used in the Turbo and Supercharged N52s?

36lbs/hr

[CobraMarty]

Thanks,

[hassmaschine]

is that 24/36 at 5 bars or 3 bars? typically, they are rated at 3 bars.