E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Bought Rolled Back Odometer Car



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-06-2018, 07:03 AM   #1
masterh
Second Lieutenant
54
Rep
291
Posts

Drives: bmw 328i
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Los Angeles CA

iTrader: (0)

Bought Rolled Back Odometer Car

So I bought this 07 328i with 72000 miles.

I checked the carfax before purchasing. it seemed ok.

I replaced the battery few days after buying it. the mileage stayed same.

Tonight, I disconnected the battery to work on battery vent. I noticed mileage jumped about 20k. Yes there is a Dot between mileage and trip mileage

I bought from one of those around the corner car dealer. It has been about a month.

In Washington state, they don't have to disclose mileage for a car that's older than 10 years.

I disconnected the battery to see if it will change tomorrow but I doubt it.

I am going to bmw dealer to see if they have any record of mileage.


All I can do is threatening them about leaving a bad review at this point?
(no mileage on bill of sale, the ad is gone obviously, odometer status: exempt on title, it's just my word against his word)
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 07:18 AM   #2
GATORB8
Captain
GATORB8's Avatar
United_States
225
Rep
807
Posts

Drives: 2011 335is 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335is  [9.50]
You can try looking for a cached version of the ad by googling your VIN (click the down arrow next to the url in the google results).

Not sure why someone would go through the effort, or how disconnecting the battery a second time would change your odometer.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 07:35 AM   #3
zstreet86
Private First Class
United_States
116
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2011 E91 328i, 2008 e90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: 35824

iTrader: (0)

Hey well hopefully you also bought it because it's in nice condition, etc. If this is the case I wouldn't fret it too much. Just try to get up to date on any and all preventative maintenance.

The way i see it, all you are out is maybe an extra grand or two for overpaying on the mileage front. Consider it a lesson learned, could be much worse. Good luck!
Appreciate 1
feuer4274.50
      07-06-2018, 11:13 AM   #4
Needbmwpartzz
Colonel
Needbmwpartzz's Avatar
851
Rep
2,793
Posts

Drives: 2009 bmw 328i x-drive
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kitchener/Waterloo

iTrader: (0)

Anyone know how they roll-back the odometer?
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 11:30 AM   #5
atmosphericM
Basic Bimmer
United_States
518
Rep
935
Posts

Drives: E92 328i 6MT ///M
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: B'ham

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
If you were to put a cluster from a lower mileage car into a higher mileage car, I believe once the newer, lower mileage cluster was initialized (car turned on??), it would receive the mileage data from the car's other computers, display the correct (higher mileage) number, and show the dot, until some proper coding has been completed. That said, how this shady dealer managed to prevent that dot and the proper car's mileage from showing immediately is beyond me. I'm no expert, though.

There are other things I want to say here, but I'll refrain. Lesson learned, I suppose. Sorry to hear of troubles, some really shitty people out there.
__________________
Black Sapphire 328i ///M Sport Coupé
Save the Manuals!
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 12:43 PM   #6
Nickco43
Lieutenant Colonel
Nickco43's Avatar
1456
Rep
1,909
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
Anyone know how they roll-back the odometer?
The R270 tool can roll back the odometer. You pull a EEPROM dump from the CAS module then you have to desolder a chip on the back of the cluster and program it for the new mileage. But I am confused why someone would rollback a 328i. With high mileage they are worth $4-5k and with 70k they are $8-10k. IMO not worth possible litigation for a few grand. OP could file a lawsuit against the dealer but by the time that is done he would have spent the value of the car on legal fees. I would drive back to the dealer and threaten legal action. Don't scream at them, act respectable and dress respectable. I would see if you can have them buy back the car. If OP want's to DM me his VIN I could see if I could find the AD and any wholesale auction records.

Also why do some states do stuff like that when old cars are sold? How hard is it to take down a mileage number?


Last edited by Nickco43; 07-06-2018 at 12:56 PM..
Appreciate 1
      07-06-2018, 12:48 PM   #7
Needbmwpartzz
Colonel
Needbmwpartzz's Avatar
851
Rep
2,793
Posts

Drives: 2009 bmw 328i x-drive
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kitchener/Waterloo

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickco43 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
Anyone know how they roll-back the odometer?
The R270 tool can roll back the odometer
I guess it's pretty easy.....I can't see many dealers risking their license to do this.:
Private sellers on the other hand...
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 01:06 PM   #8
Nickco43
Lieutenant Colonel
Nickco43's Avatar
1456
Rep
1,909
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz View Post
I guess it's pretty easy.....I can't see many dealers risking their license to do this.:
Private sellers on the other hand...
Rolling back the odometer gives the auto industry as a whole a bad name. Almost all car dealerships have a few poor ratings since most people do not look over a car properly and then get angry when something goes wrong. Very few dealers actually pull stunts off like this dealer.
Appreciate 1
      07-06-2018, 01:25 PM   #9
masterh
Second Lieutenant
54
Rep
291
Posts

Drives: bmw 328i
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Los Angeles CA

iTrader: (0)

yeah I found cached version of the ad from their website. It clearly shows the mileage I bought it for. I also serviced the car few days ago. It shows I serviced the car at 72k miles at this tire shop on Carfax. (it's crazy huh)

With online ad record, at least I can prove to other people on google reviews. (if he claims, I am making up a story)
If BMW can be rolled back, I am sure a lot of people will be scared of purchasing toyota corolla.

I will just tell him 'I will see if there are any legal options. Think about how many future sales you can lose if I share honest reviews' I will let him think about it few days and contact me.
I wouldn't scream at them. I learned it's a lot scarier if someone says things like that in a calm manner.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 01:42 PM   #10
BSM n54iS
Brigadier General
BSM n54iS's Avatar
2685
Rep
4,202
Posts

Drives: '11 335is | '16 Macan Turbo
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere

iTrader: (7)

BBB
__________________
'11 335is BSM MT "BMW Performance Editon" | '16 Porsche Macan Turbo
GruppeM CF Intake | AR Resonated DP | ER CP | Turbosmart RacePort BOV | Cobb FMIC | RB Inlets | RB External Mishi/Turner OCC | Michelin PS4 | BMW Performance Springs/Bilstein B8 + Dinan & M3 bits | BMW Brembo BBK | BMW Performance CF Spoiler | BMW Performance CF Lip | BMW Performance Alcantara | PS Designs GTS Armrest | AG H6-40 | Rear Seat Delete
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 02:12 PM   #11
max_330i
Captain
max_330i's Avatar
United_States
339
Rep
922
Posts

Drives: 2006 BMW 330i
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (0)

So you bought your 328i thinking it had 72K, and after disconnecting the battery, you found out it has 92K?

It's not even worth trying to go after the dealership at that point. N52 cars are bulletproof to begin with, and you seem like an owner who will take care of it from here on out. Be more careful next time. We have lots of "around-the-corner" used car lots in my city, and every single one is cancer.
__________________
2006 330i 6MT Jet Black / Black
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 02:13 PM   #12
Nickco43
Lieutenant Colonel
Nickco43's Avatar
1456
Rep
1,909
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [0.00]
I got the vin and did some digging. The dealer that OP bought the car from seems like a legitimate dealer with many good reviews (Good google, yelp, BBB, ect). IMO the car was traded in by the third owner to some dealer. Some dealer botched rolled back the car and sent it to auction. Then the dealer that OP bought the car from bought the car from auction and then sold it without knowledge of any tampering.

I would go to the dealership and show them the tamper light. I would have to believe if they are any good they would buy back the car.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 02:24 PM   #13
ewicky
Lieutenant
United_States
204
Rep
525
Posts

Drives: '07 335xi 4D AT
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

It's much more likely a computer fault or a part that's been replaced than someone actually committing mileage fraud. Let's not jump to conclusions haha.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 04:15 PM   #14
masterh
Second Lieutenant
54
Rep
291
Posts

Drives: bmw 328i
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Los Angeles CA

iTrader: (0)

So used dealership owner is in Ukraine till Wednesday. I will have to wait to talk to him.

BMW dealership said they can fix the dot by reprogramming.
They don't know what number it will show in the end.
I am thinking I should fix it first before talking to the owner to see what number it will come up? 20k extra is not too bad but it will really suck if it shows 120k or something.
Any idea how much it would be at BMW? Can local bmw coder guy handle something like this?

It's highly possible they bought it this way unknowingly. But that's part of running a business. If he bought something hot, he can't just expect final buyer to take a loss.


I think I will talk to him to see if he would be willing to refund some of the amount. I think it's still a good deal for him if he ends up making nothing from the sale instead of getting my honest review ('I don't know who did it but I bought a car with rolled back odometer')
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 04:41 PM   #15
Nickco43
Lieutenant Colonel
Nickco43's Avatar
1456
Rep
1,909
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterh View Post
So used dealership owner is in Ukraine till Wednesday. I will have to wait to talk to him.

BMW dealership said they can fix the dot by reprogramming.
They don't know what number it will show in the end.
I am thinking I should fix it first before talking to the owner to see what number it will come up? 20k extra is not too bad but it will really suck if it shows 120k or something.
Any idea how much it would be at BMW? Can local bmw coder guy handle something like this?

It's highly possible they bought it this way unknowingly. But that's part of running a business. If he bought something hot, he can't just expect final buyer to take a loss.


I think I will talk to him to see if he would be willing to refund some of the amount. I think it's still a good deal for him if he ends up making nothing from the sale instead of getting my honest review ('I don't know who did it but I bought a car with rolled back odometer')
Don't have anyone touch the car. If he wanted to pay to have the odometer fixed by BMW plus 2k off the purchase price I would consider it.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 05:34 PM   #16
lowrydr310
Robot
1602
Rep
2,135
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i, 2007 E93 335i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Souhtrne Califniora

iTrader: (0)

I'm not familiar with auto sales in WA. In CA, mileage reporting is only mandatory for vehicles less than 10 years old, however it's highly recommended for all sales regardless of vehicle age. There are boxes on the title transfer form to indicate "Odometer reading is not the actual mileage" and "Mileage exceeds the odometer mechanical limits". I own a motorcycle that I bought with the title branded with "not actual mileage" but I am completely fine with that as I clearly knew what I was getting.

Was anything like this disclosed at the time of your sale? Is it marked anywhere on the title or in any of the sales paperwork that the mileage was unknown, or was the indicated mileage written down anywhere in a bill of sale, receipt, etc?

Talk to the dealer and give them a chance to make it right. Like ewicky said above, it's possible that a component was replaced and not programmed correctly, however if there is odometer fraud involved and you need to pursue it further, here are some starting points:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases...odometer-fraud

Quote:
NHTSA has a special hotline for odometer fraud complaints. Consumers with information relating to odometer tampering should call 800-424-9393 or 888-327-4236. Consumers can also file a complaint online at www.NHTSA.gov/Equipment/Odometer-Fraud.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/odometer-fraud...odometer-fraud

Quote:
If you suspect fraud, contact NHTSA and your State’s enforcement agency.
Appreciate 0
      07-06-2018, 05:59 PM   #17
Quickbricky
New Member
0
Rep
12
Posts

Drives: 325d coupe e92
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Bristol

iTrader: (0)

It's legal to roll back to 1 mile if you want, the illegal bit is not declaring
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2018, 10:44 PM   #18
masterh
Second Lieutenant
54
Rep
291
Posts

Drives: bmw 328i
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Los Angeles CA

iTrader: (0)

Dealer said he wouldn't do anything.
I simply said I found out the odometer was rolled back?. he got defensive by saying if I was accusing him of doing that. (I had to yell at him few times to tell him 'I never said you did that. I don't know who did it'
He gave me the classic response I expected to hear. 'I know nothing about the car. we got it that way' It pissed me off when he said 'there is no mileage on the paperwork' 'it's more than 10 years old, it's exempt'

thats the update so far.
Appreciate 0
      07-14-2018, 11:21 PM   #19
Nickco43
Lieutenant Colonel
Nickco43's Avatar
1456
Rep
1,909
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterh View Post
Dealer said he wouldn't do anything.
I simply said I found out the odometer was rolled back?. he got defensive by saying if I was accusing him of doing that. (I had to yell at him few times to tell him 'I never said you did that. I don't know who did it'
He gave me the classic response I expected to hear. 'I know nothing about the car. we got it that way' It pissed me off when he said 'there is no mileage on the paperwork' 'it's more than 10 years old, it's exempt'

thats the update so far.
You gave them a chance to make it right and they told you to bugger off. I would give NTHSA a ring as well as the BBB. Go to the dealer and see what they can do about the tamper light. I am expecting something over $1000 to have them fix it. You would need to write a new mileage to the CAS and then wipe the cluster. I wouldn't even know the correct and legal mileage to have it set to.

Buying an illegally rolled back car is on the dealer to eat the loss, not you.
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2018, 09:43 AM   #20
nsjames
Brigadier General
2440
Rep
4,333
Posts

Drives: 08 328xi Touring
Join Date: May 2017
Location: ohio

iTrader: (0)

while another 20K isn't the end of the world, I would say that the dealer needs to at least reimburse you for the difference in value based on the mileage.

if he refuses, then I'd tell him that you'll be reporting it to the state. Mileage exempt or not, a vehicle he sold was misrepresented, and ultimately it's his responsibility as the retailing dealer.
If he wants to pursue action against the wholesaler or someone else that's his business, but the fraud is between you and him.
Appreciate 1
      07-17-2018, 08:26 PM   #21
masterh
Second Lieutenant
54
Rep
291
Posts

Drives: bmw 328i
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Los Angeles CA

iTrader: (0)

I wrote some short review on google.
the sales guy called back (not the owner I called)
He apologized by saying he realized auction paper said Mileage Unknown and he should've told me about it.

he is saying the owner is blaming him for not disclosing the info. He offered me his commission which was $250 facepalm.

I told him I don't want to have his commission and I just want to deal with the owner.
He kept asking what $ number I was thinking but I told him just speak with the owner and get back to me.

I don't know if he is playing some Tactic here. 'hey I am just a salesman, I don't want to get in trouble with the owner. help me out. I will give up my commission'
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 08:45 PM   #22
Nickco43
Lieutenant Colonel
Nickco43's Avatar
1456
Rep
1,909
Posts

Drives: 08 E92 BMW M3
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterh View Post
I wrote some short review on google.
the sales guy called back (not the owner I called)
He apologized by saying he realized auction paper said Mileage Unknown and he should've told me about it.

he is saying the owner is blaming him for not disclosing the info. He offered me his commission which was $250 facepalm.

I told him I don't want to have his commission and I just want to deal with the owner.
He kept asking what $ number I was thinking but I told him just speak with the owner and get back to me.

I don't know if he is playing some Tactic here. 'hey I am just a salesman, I don't want to get in trouble with the owner. help me out. I will give up my commission'
I personally would not settle for anything less than $1,000 cash (Depreciation between 71k vs 93k) plus having the tamper light repaired by your local BMW service center. Anything less than that then continue to raise hell. That is more than fair for their mistake. Keep in mind they will not loss money on this car with that deal, they will just break even. Then again any idiot who bought a "Mileage unknown" car from auction probably overpaid.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST