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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N51



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      04-10-2011, 06:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micah_675 View Post
Sure is, the Euro tuners can get the same power as a tuned 330 out of that motor. That motor comes with the 3 stage intake manifold installed (at least on the Europe Version). It is downtuned with a reducted compression ratio for the pistons. I have seen numbers by tuners claiming as high as 280 PS, which is about 275 HP.

If you have the N51N you do NOT have the 3 stage intake manifold. If you have the N51, you DO have the intake manifold.
Thanks. I never thought I would thank my lucky stars for having the N51. I will be tuning after the warranty runs out. If I don't buy a certified 911 that is.
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      04-10-2011, 06:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNate View Post
Thanks. I never thought I would thank my lucky stars for having the N51.
According to realoem, I have a N51. And like you said, I never thought it was a great thing until this post.


Leads me to this question. Anyone know of an available tune out there to maximize the potential of our N51?
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      04-10-2011, 07:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttam View Post
According to realoem, I have a N51. And like you said, I never thought it was a great thing until this post.


Leads me to this question. Anyone know of an available tune out there to maximize the potential of our N51?
So to summarize we have a detuned for slightly lower compression ratio version of the same H.O. engine in the 2006 330i. I think I can live with that. My car never felt underpowered especially after the BMW Performance Exhaust was installed.
By the way, your car looks great. I like all the upgrades. Mine looks similiar in Alpine White as well.

Last edited by PhillyNate; 04-10-2011 at 08:10 PM..
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      04-10-2011, 08:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNate View Post
So to summarize we have a detuned for slightly lower compression ratio version of the same H.O. engine in the 2006 330i. I think I can live with that. My car never felt underpowered especially after the BMW Performance Exhaust was installed.
By the way, your car looks great. I like all the upgrades. Mine looks similiar in Alpine White as well.
Thank you

However, as far as finding the tune for the n51 goes, many owners 328i/128i out here in California will be grateful for the recommendations of an available tune to maximize the potential the stated three stage manifold
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      04-11-2011, 01:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
How in the world did you manage to get your hands on that?
California emmisions are required in Rhode Island, so the N51 was the only choice. It makes the same HP as the N52 so I didn't question it.
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      04-11-2011, 02:00 PM   #28
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Before you guys get excited, please look at this post and Identify your valves on your engines.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...40&postcount=5

I am not saying you all do not have them, but there are multiple versions (revisions) of the motor.
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      04-11-2011, 02:34 PM   #29
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Mass has California Emissions and I have an N52, I am sure many others do in this state as well as those in California..
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      04-11-2011, 03:19 PM   #30
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no need to argue guys. The 1-series comes with it, as does the E90, 91, and 93. I have no idea how they choose who was getting what.
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      04-11-2011, 04:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micah_675 View Post
no need to argue guys. The 1-series comes with it, as does the E90, 91, and 93. I have no idea how they choose who was getting what.
I find all of this so very confusing..as;dflkjagha;slkfja
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      04-11-2011, 05:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micah_675 View Post
Before you guys get excited, please look at this post and Identify your valves on your engines.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...40&postcount=5

I am not saying you all do not have them, but there are multiple versions (revisions) of the motor.
I have the right stuff.
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      04-11-2011, 05:57 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guerilla twang View Post
I find all of this so very confusing..as;dflkjagha;slkfja
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      04-14-2011, 05:56 PM   #34
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N51 vs. N52

I found this on Edmonds.com

The 328i SULEV uses the N51 versus the N52 engine. In order to comply with SULEV requirements, the N51 is a variant of the N52 engine. Some of the SULEV measures for the N51 include:

• Near engine catalyst with additional underbody catalyst
• Secondary air system
• Optimized combustion chamber geometry in cylinder head
• Modified piston crown for lower compression
• Plastic valve cover with integrated crankcase vent valve and separator (from N52KP)
• Stainless steel fuel lines with threaded connections
• Radiator with “Prem-air” coating
• Throttle system - EGAS08 carried over from N52KP
• Airbox with Activated carbon filter for EVAP control
• Purge system pipes are made from “optimized” plastic

BMW claims there is no performance difference other than the increase in weight which adds about 30 lbs.
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      04-14-2011, 06:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4corners View Post
I found this on Edmonds.com

The 328i SULEV uses the N51 versus the N52 engine. In order to comply with SULEV requirements, the N51 is a variant of the N52 engine. Some of the SULEV measures for the N51 include:

• Near engine catalyst with additional underbody catalyst
• Secondary air system
• Optimized combustion chamber geometry in cylinder head
• Modified piston crown for lower compression
• Plastic valve cover with integrated crankcase vent valve and separator (from N52KP)
• Stainless steel fuel lines with threaded connections
• Radiator with “Prem-air” coating
• Throttle system - EGAS08 carried over from N52KP
• Airbox with Activated carbon filter for EVAP control
• Purge system pipes are made from “optimized” plastic

BMW claims there is no performance difference other than the increase in weight which adds about 30 lbs.
Nobody is arguing power stock vs. stock (N51 vs. N52). However if the N51 is essentially the same as the N52 high output just detuned to accomodate a different piston crown design then the potential for flashing/reflashing has to be slightly better in the N51 considering we already have the 3 stage manifold right out of the box. IMHO
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      04-24-2011, 11:38 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90pilot View Post
All us spec N51s have a 3 stage intake manifold. That's how they get the same power of as an N52 powered 3/128 even with lower compression.
My dad's car is parked next to mine right now. I took a look and his N51 indeed has a 3stage manifold and my N52 has a 1 stage. Much easier to see the difference between the 2 manifolds when they are side by side.
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      04-25-2011, 11:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post
My dad's car is parked next to mine right now. I took a look and his N51 indeed has a 3stage manifold and my N52 has a 1 stage. Much easier to see the difference between the 2 manifolds when they are side by side.
Pictures??
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      04-25-2011, 12:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post
Mass has California Emissions and I have an N52, I am sure many others do in this state as well as those in California..
My wife's '08 328xi has an N52. My '09 128i has an N51. Maybe the law went into effect in '09. That would explain why your '07 328xi has the N52.
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      04-25-2011, 01:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_thompson View Post
My wife's '08 328xi has an N52. My '09 128i has an N51. Maybe the law went into effect in '09. That would explain why your '07 328xi has the N52.
Not sure, I think its the luck of the draw. Both of our cars are 2007's. I know both cars are equipped with Cali emissions because I wouldn't be able to purchase/register the car if it did not. Don't want to turn this thread into a debate about the law though.

Sorry about not getting pics, I only had my phone on me and the pictures would not have been very clear. Next time I am at the parents, I will be sure to find the good camera and take some shots. To be honest though, the engine bays looked entirely identical except for the DISA motors on his intake mani. If you weren't looking for it, you wouldnt notice the difference between the 2 engines. I think it is a safe bet to say that many more people have the N51 without knowing.
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      04-26-2011, 03:45 PM   #40
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Took a quick look on realoem.com and it appears that the intake manifold for the n51 is identical to that of the n52 high output (minus part 14? power distribution box $8.20)...

n51: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...56&hg=11&fg=40

n52: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...56&hg=11&fg=40

n52 (high output): http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...56&hg=11&fg=40
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      04-26-2011, 04:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfaust View Post
Took a quick look on realoem.com and it appears that the intake manifold for the n51 is identical to that of the n52 high output (minus part 14? power distribution box $8.20)...

n51: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...56&hg=11&fg=40

n52: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...56&hg=11&fg=40

n52 (high output): http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...56&hg=11&fg=40
What the hell does that thing do? If anything. For $8.20 on a German car, I'm guessing it doesn't do much. But I've been wrong before. Can you say Flux Capacitor.

Last edited by PhillyNate; 04-26-2011 at 08:32 PM..
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      04-26-2011, 09:57 PM   #42
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My 2008 328i has the N51 w/ three stage manifold. I wonder how we can up the compression :P
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      04-27-2011, 03:31 AM   #43
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Many posts in this thread assume that the only hardware difference between the high output N52 and the low output N52 is the 3-stage intake manifold, which I don't think is a foregone conclusion.

In other words, just because the N51 has the 3-stage intake manifold, doesn't necessarily mean that it's just a (very elusive, btw) tune away from being a high output N52. I've heard some talk that injectors may be different, as well as the exhaust manifold.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just saying that there could (and likely is, IMO) more going on here, hardware wise, than simply the addition or deletion of an intake manifold. I would love to be wrong on this, because if it's that easy I would be all about it.

Of course, the tricky part is the tune. For some reason no one (in the US, at least) can seem to really crack this thing.
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      04-28-2011, 03:58 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Many posts in this thread assume that the only hardware difference between the high output N52 and the low output N52 is the 3-stage intake manifold, which I don't think is a foregone conclusion.

In other words, just because the N51 has the 3-stage intake manifold, doesn't necessarily mean that it's just a (very elusive, btw) tune away from being a high output N52. I've heard some talk that injectors may be different, as well as the exhaust manifold.

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, just saying that there could (and likely is, IMO) more going on here, hardware wise, than simply the addition or deletion of an intake manifold. I would love to be wrong on this, because if it's that easy I would be all about it.

Of course, the tricky part is the tune. For some reason no one (in the US, at least) can seem to really crack this thing.
I should look for some freaky berkeley engineer to crack that thing
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