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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > 2011 E93 rear toe and camber adjustment



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      12-01-2018, 06:46 AM   #1
nate93
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2011 E93 rear toe and camber adjustment

I have the toe-plates, so I have done front alignment on my car no problem. But I want to know which bolt to adjust for toe and camber on the back? And does the car needs to be raised at all?
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      12-01-2018, 11:28 AM   #2
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You need to adjust both the lower middle and lower rear control arm in the rear to adjust toe.

Since adjust one affects the other you cannot just adjust one. But the rear lower is the so called "toe-arm".

Be careful, if the eccentric adjustment screws have not been anti-seized or touched in awhile they might be impossible to remove. Good luck!
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      12-01-2018, 02:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
You need to adjust both the lower middle and lower rear control arm in the rear to adjust toe.

Since adjust one affects the other you cannot just adjust one. But the rear lower is the so called "toe-arm".

Be careful, if the eccentric adjustment screws have not been anti-seized or touched in awhile they might be impossible to remove. Good luck!
So what you are talking about is number 5 on the figure right? Do you know the eccentric adjustment screws is A or B as labeled on my diagram?
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Also, how important is it to have the weights in the car when doing these alignments? do you know?
Alignment Spec.pdf

Also do you know what I need to do adjust my rear camber? which component in my diagram? its eating my inner tires like crazy.
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      12-01-2018, 03:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
So what you are talking about is number 5 on the figure right? Do you know the eccentric adjustment screws is A or B as labeled on my diagram?

Also, how important is it to have the weights in the car when doing these alignments? do you know?

Also do you know what I need to do adjust my rear camber? which component in my diagram? its eating my inner tires like crazy.
No. 5 is the so called toe-arm.

I don't see the point of having weights in the car, but at least It cannot hurt.

Your tyres are wearing the insides because of a bad toe angle (too much toe out). Ideally you was 0,10° toe in for the rear and 0,00° toe for the front.
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      12-01-2018, 03:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
No. 5 is the so called toe-arm.

I don't see the point of having weights in the car, but at least It cannot hurt.

Your tyres are wearing the insides because of a bad toe angle (too much toe out). Ideally you was 0,10° toe in for the rear and 0,00° toe for the front.
"No. 5 is the so called toe-arm."So is that not the right arm that I need to adjust? Which arm that I need to adjust on the diagram?
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      12-01-2018, 03:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
"No. 5 is the so called toe-arm."So is that not the right arm that I need to adjust? Which arm that I need to adjust on the diagram?
Think of the 5 rear control arms as a round table with 5 legs, if you change the length of 1 leg, it will affect all the others.

You need to adjust camber and toe at the same time. You have adjustments on both arm no. 3 and 5.

Do you have a way of measuring your toe and camber angles?
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      12-04-2018, 06:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
Think of the 5 rear control arms as a round table with 5 legs, if you change the length of 1 leg, it will affect all the others.

You need to adjust camber and toe at the same time. You have adjustments on both arm no. 3 and 5.

Do you have a way of measuring your toe and camber angles?
Do you know if my car needs to be off the ground when adjusting?
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      12-04-2018, 12:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
Do you know if my car needs to be off the ground when adjusting?
The car should be flat on the ground. If you have had it up in the air you need to roll it forward/backward to let the tension out of the control arms.

I have two marine plywood pieces under each tyre when I adjust my alignment. Between the two pieces of plywood I put a film of engine oil to make them slide effortlessly. Just so any tension is removed.

This way I can adjust and measure my adjustments more accurately.

Of course you might want to raise the car up in the air to loosen all the adjustment bolts and stuff, but when you are adjusting you can easily reach in and do the adjustments and tighten somewhat. Then you can raise the car and tighten everything down properly.

Last edited by DialedIn; 12-04-2018 at 12:53 PM..
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      12-05-2018, 04:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
The car should be flat on the ground. If you have had it up in the air you need to roll it forward/backward to let the tension out of the control arms.

I have two marine plywood pieces under each tyre when I adjust my alignment. Between the two pieces of plywood I put a film of engine oil to make them slide effortlessly. Just so any tension is removed.

This way I can adjust and measure my adjustments more accurately.

Of course you might want to raise the car up in the air to loosen all the adjustment bolts and stuff, but when you are adjusting you can easily reach in and do the adjustments and tighten somewhat. Then you can raise the car and tighten everything down properly.
I know you said arm 3 and 5 need to be adjusted, but do you know which bolts I need to loose? A or B on my diagram, and likewise on the other arm as well.
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      12-06-2018, 10:06 AM   #10
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Have you actually been under the car yet?

Once you see each piece in front of you, you'll quickly figure out which bolts allow for adjustment and which don't.
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      12-06-2018, 12:08 PM   #11
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The eccentric bolts are towards the center of the car.

Here you can see both of the adjustment bolts;

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      12-08-2018, 11:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
The eccentric bolts are towards the center of the car.

Here you can see both of the adjustment bolts;

Thank you very much! will get it a shot this weekend with these alignment plates.

Do you know a way to test out the bushing? I know the x5, you have to release the pressure from the suspension before you can shake the tire. do you know if that works the same way as E90?
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      12-08-2018, 12:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
Thank you very much! will get it a shot this weekend with these alignment plates.

Do you know a way to test out the bushing? I know the x5, you have to release the pressure from the suspension before you can shake the tire. do you know if that works the same way as E90?
The only way I know to test bushing it to get a crowbar and pry on them when the car is up in the air. If you feel (highly subjective) like there is more play than there should be for the amount of force you apply, then it's a good idea to change the bushing for a new one.

Also, by visual inspection you can get an idea of the current state of the rubber in the bushings. If they're cracked and look old, it might be time to get new ones.

I have never messed with any suspension bushings on my E92, I got a complete set of polyurethane ones and swapped out everything.
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      12-08-2018, 12:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
The only way I know to test bushing it to get a crowbar and pry on them when the car is up in the air. If you feel (highly subjective) like there is more play than there should be for the amount of force you apply, then it's a good idea to change the bushing for a new one.

Also, by visual inspection you can get an idea of the current state of the rubber in the bushings. If they're cracked and look old, it might be time to get new ones.

I have never messed with any suspension bushings on my E92, I got a complete set of polyurethane ones and swapped out everything.
Ahh thats a good option. They have been working well? They are known to make sqeaky noise, how is it for you?
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      12-08-2018, 01:53 PM   #15
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They might require a total dissembly and re-greasing in the near future, and they do transfer a lot more tyre and differential noise into the cabin.

Unless you can live with the noise and you've got a 10.000 kg press, car lift and alignment rack I wouldn't recommend it.

I do recommend switching the rear subframe bushings for the stiffest you can find, preferably aluminum ones. - getting rid of the rear bounce makes the rear shock absorbers actually able to do their job!
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      12-08-2018, 10:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
They might require a total dissembly and re-greasing in the near future, and they do transfer a lot more tyre and differential noise into the cabin.

Unless you can live with the noise and you've got a 10.000 kg press, car lift and alignment rack I wouldn't recommend it.

I do recommend switching the rear subframe bushings for the stiffest you can find, preferably aluminum ones. - getting rid of the rear bounce makes the rear shock absorbers actually able to do their job!
Is that why all these E92 and E93 asses bouncing up and down every time we go over any bump? haha If it is, that explains it. I see it all the time!
Will these do it? http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product_images/5-420fi.pdf

If not, can you link what you recommend?
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      12-09-2018, 02:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
Is that why all these E92 and E93 asses bouncing up and down every time we go over any bump? haha If it is, that explains it. I see it all the time!
Will these do it? http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product_images/5-420fi.pdf

If not, can you link what you recommend?
Yes, the rear bounce is due to the soft rubber rear subframe bushings, the shock absorbers get to fight both bumps in the road and the springy subframe. The M3-bushings are supposedly better than the stock, but are still bad. Polyurethane ones have been used a lot and are widely recommended. I personally feel like the powerflex ones are ridiculously overpriced. I went with Strongflex's hardest polyurethane bushings (90 scale of hardness). There was no negative effects to this hardness so I would recommend getting solid aluminum ones. - New 3-series are bolted directly to underbody without any bushings at all.
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      12-09-2018, 05:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DialedIn View Post
Yes, the rear bounce is due to the soft rubber rear subframe bushings, the shock absorbers get to fight both bumps in the road and the springy subframe. The M3-bushings are supposedly better than the stock, but are still bad. Polyurethane ones have been used a lot and are widely recommended. I personally feel like the powerflex ones are ridiculously overpriced. I went with Strongflex's hardest polyurethane bushings (90 scale of hardness). There was no negative effects to this hardness so I would recommend getting solid aluminum ones. - New 3-series are bolted directly to underbody without any bushings at all.
Okay, I think I might do that. How hard was the job? do you need torch and such like one of the DIY recommends?

Thank you for all your knowledge by the way!
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      12-10-2018, 11:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by nate93 View Post
Okay, I think I might do that. How hard was the job? do you need torch and such like one of the DIY recommends?

Thank you for all your knowledge by the way!
It is not an easy job. I have a car lift and a transmission jack stand and it was still difficult. You have to lower the subframe off the car which is kinda sketchy. - A torch would probably be very helpful!
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