[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

FYI the Helix is fully exposed and takes up the entire lower bumper opening, it is not in any way blocked by the front bumper. Also the helix only blocks the lowest 2.5" of the radiator and withover 300 units sold and on the road we have never had 1 complaint of any adverse effects on the cars cooling system and these units are in use on cars that regularly see the road course and endurance racing events! Lastly our custom core features rounded bullnose bars that allow less resistance as the ambient air enters the core through to the radiator.

You're either a horrible liar or completely blind if you think that fmic is fully exposed. I've seen countless of pictures that prove for a fact that the upper section for the Helix and other tall FMIC's aren't exposed due to being blocked by the bumper.

[ETS Michael]

Originally Posted by Imperator

For intercoolers like the HPF, Forge and others that use the OEM charge pipe and C-clip junctions, I'm curious if there is any credence to the theory of restriction, turbulence or inefficiencies by using the factory accordion joints and reduced diameter of the interconnects.

A good number of E9x-purposed intercooler kits eliminate these factory charge pipe connections through their own interconnects. The ETS 5" FMIC, albeit on the small side, promotes the elimination of those areas of "restriction" by changing the angle of the cold-side outlet and including its own aluminum charge pipe.

I know it's optional, but I'm curious why HPF chose to retain the OEM charge pipe interconnects if those areas are indeed restrictive or inefficient.

We do have a larger unit that will be released next month. We have been asked to build a 7" unit from several customers... ask and you shall receive! The new 7" will be available next month!

Thanks!

Michael

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by Imperator

For intercoolers like the HPF, Forge and others that use the OEM charge pipe and C-clip junctions, I'm curious if there is any credence to the theory of restriction, turbulence or inefficiencies by using the factory accordion joints and reduced diameter of the interconnects.

A good number of E9x-purposed intercooler kits eliminate these factory charge pipe connections through their own interconnects. The ETS 5" FMIC, albeit on the small side, promotes the elimination of those areas of "restriction" by changing the angle of the cold-side outlet and including its own aluminum charge pipe.

I know it's optional, but I'm curious why HPF chose to retain the OEM charge pipe interconnects if those areas are indeed restrictive or inefficient.

It's usually cheaper to include a new pipe setup than to reuse the existing connectors like the HPF. That's why most shops change it up.

I prefer the OEM setup because Installation is a lot easier since you don't have to worry about irreversibly modifying your OEM piping or going through the hassle of installing a new cold side pipe which is a bit of a pain to get in & out of the car.

[ETS Michael]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

99% of the shops who claim these are a bottle neck do so because producing two new billet aluminum connectors costs them too much. Using conventional bead rolled tubes & couplers are cheaper and easier for them to manufacturer.

Installation is also cut in half when you don't have to worry about irreversibly modifying your OEM piping or going through the hassle of installing a new cold side pipe.

The problem we found with the OEM connectors is the inlet/outlet size.. The inlet/outlet size on the OEM connectors are less then 2.0"



We could make a larger OEM style connector, but no point in reinventing the wheel since the traditional style beaded inlet and outlet with t-bolt clamp works perfectly fine.

Thanks!

Michael

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by ETS Michael

The problem we found with the OEM connectors is the inlet/outlet size.. The inlet/outlet size on the OEM connectors are less then 2.0"



We could make a larger OEM style connector, but no point in reinventing the wheel since the traditional style beaded inlet and outlet with t-bolt clamp works perfectly fine.

Thanks!

Michael

You guys should dyno the difference between stock coupler joints vs the beaded setup on a modded car. I can't imagine the gains will be noticeable at stock power levels but if the difference is substantial enough to warrant the trouble I'd consider changing it up to the beaded pipe style.

[**335i**]

thanks for all inputs i will go for HPF

[Topless///M]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

I agree and think the HPF, Helix, and AMS units are the best, but I'm glad I chose the Helix as it's taller and fits the lower grill area perfectly. The top of it ends right where no more air can get to it when looking up closely in that grill area. Yeah, the entire face is not blocked as some think, the top is still exposed to air just not as much as the mid section. If anything the bottom charge row is blocked a little like all others.

Originally Posted by tvieira24

You're either a horrible liar or completely blind if you think that fmic is fully exposed. I've seen countless of pictures that prove for a fact that the upper section for the Helix and other tall FMIC's aren't exposed due to being blocked by the bumper.

Not true, I installed my Helix and got down on my knees several times to look in the lower grill area to see what was actually exposed to the ambient air, and if anything, the lowest row is blocked, but the top is fully exposed just not as direct as the mid section of the face. Once I dig myself out of my house from the 2' of snow, I'll try to snap a good shot of that area.

TT- that pic doesn't do you any justice and makes it seem like you're BS'ing when youre not, with no bumper installed there. Hopefully I can help ya out soon, freaking snow...Maybe some cars are different, but my top row is exposed just not as direct as the mid section.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

You're either a horrible liar or completely blind if you think that fmic is fully exposed. I've seen countless of pictures that prove for a fact that the upper section for the Helix and other tall FMIC's aren't exposed due to being blocked by the bumper.

The upper section of the helix is fully exposed in the bumper opening as it comes to right under the metal bumper!

Here is an n54 with front end on!



Here is our fmic on an n55 with the front clip off, the fmic stops right under the metal bumper on n54 and n55!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by Imperator

For intercoolers like the HPF, Forge and others that use the OEM charge pipe and C-clip junctions, I'm curious if there is any credence to the theory of restriction, turbulence or inefficiencies by using the factory accordion joints and reduced diameter of the interconnects.

A good number of E9x-purposed intercooler kits eliminate these factory charge pipe connections through their own interconnects. The ETS 5" FMIC, albeit on the small side, promotes the elimination of those areas of "restriction" by changing the angle of the cold-side outlet and including its own aluminum charge pipe.

I know it's optional, but I'm curious why HPF chose to retain the OEM charge pipe interconnects if those areas are indeed restrictive or inefficient.

HPF said it would be too costly to modify bc these stock turbos cannot produce that much power. There is no need bc you dont need that much power....yet. As you upgrade more and more you will find that the turbos are the "bottleneck" in the power. When you upgrade the turbos they have a stage 2 kit you can buy which replaces all of the OEM pipe interconnections...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=343291&page=5

You can sift through the pages here if you want, there are numerous pages that explains this concept.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

You guys should dyno the difference between stock coupler joints vs the beaded setup on a modded car. I can't imagine the gains will be noticeable at stock power levels but if the difference is substantial enough to warrant the trouble I'd consider changing it up to the beaded pipe style.

+1, Thank you for having some sense. Yes I do agree that they seem a bit small but, but there is no boost leak with using the factory connections(which is huge IMO) and is anyone over 600whp yet so this extra volume would actually be utilized?!?

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

The upper section of the helix is fully exposed in the bumper opening as it comes to right under the metal bumper!

Here is an n54 with front end on!

Here is our fmic on an n55 with the front clip off, the fmic stops right under the metal bumper on n54 and n55!

Ok instead of visually looking at the front bumper trying to deem whether this fmic will be fully exposed, Lets make it simple and do some measurements. How tall is your IC from top to bottom(frontal area ofcourse). I will go outside and measure my FACTORY front spoiler and see how they compare. I can assure you that the fmic will be bigger than that gap. I understand that MOST of it will be exposed but I believe that HPF's design where you have a shorter frontal face will perform better, especially at higher speeds where more of my frontal plate will be exposed to DIRECT air.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Ok instead of visually looking at the front bumper trying to deem whether this fmic will be fully exposed, Lets make it simple and do some measurements. How tall is your IC from top to bottom(frontal area ofcourse). I will go outside and measure my FACTORY front spoiler and see how they compare. I can assure you that the fmic will be bigger than that gap. I understand that MOST of it will be exposed but I believe that HPF's design where you have a shorter frontal face will perform better, especially at higher speeds where more of my frontal plate will be exposed to DIRECT air.

Ok this is easy, the helix is 2.5" taller than stock/HPF as it sits in the car!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Ok instead of visually looking at the front bumper trying to deem whether this fmic will be fully exposed, Lets make it simple and do some measurements. How tall is your IC from top to bottom(frontal area ofcourse). I will go outside and measure my FACTORY front spoiler and see how they compare. I can assure you that the fmic will be bigger than that gap. I understand that MOST of it will be exposed but I believe that HPF's design where you have a shorter frontal face will perform better, especially at higher speeds where more of my frontal plate will be exposed to DIRECT air.

The frontal face and the 1st 1/3 of the core thickness, is the part of the intercooler that does most of the cooling in the core! As I have said the upper section on the helix is exposed(go outside and see if 2.5 more inches is exposed above your HPF) the helix face is 56% larger than stock or stock height replacements!

[Fernflex]

I love my helix, the only complain is the weight of the fmic.

[edo]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

No trimming necessary on the helix

That is not true. Unless you've changed the desing of it during the last 2 years.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Fernflex

I love my helix, the only complain is the weight of the fmic.

An intercooler is a heat sink the more mass the ic has the longer it can hold off ait temp rise! You want a heavy heat sink in a front mount with a large frontal ambient face to keep the mass cool

[**335i**]

Originally Posted by Fernflex

I love my helix, the only complain is the weight of the fmic.

how much it weights in kg?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by edo

That is not true. Unless you've changed the desing of it during the last 2 years.

Our newest design(last summer) requires 0 trimming on the 335i!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

The frontal face and the 1st 1/3 of the core thickness, is the part of the intercooler that does most of the cooling in the core! As I have said the upper section on the helix is exposed(go outside and see if 2.5 more inches is exposed above your HPF) the helix face is 56% larger than stock or stock height replacements!

I agree with you here, the back section is to retard heat soak. I am simply saying that I dont think the whole face is being utilized, this would be only measurable with an infrared sensor and/or wind tunnel. I am going outside to look now.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Our newest design(last summer) requires 0 trimming on the 335i!

Your end tanks look a whole lot better in this design.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by tvieira24

You're either a horrible liar or completely blind if you think that fmic is fully exposed. I've seen countless of pictures that prove for a fact that the upper section for the Helix and other tall FMIC's aren't exposed due to being blocked by the bumper.

The helix is not fully exposed... At all.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by **335i**

thanks for all inputs i will go for HPF

Good choice.