[A418t81]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

EXACTLY! How many of you would drive around with that breadboard under your hood? We're talking about very inexpensive, easily fatigueable parts, aren't we? I never took anything but one High School and 2 University physics courses (and I have 1/10000th the knowledge Terry does), but aren't these type of components unreliable? Anyways, it seems he knows what he's doing, but he's using components I wouldn't trust in my baby. It's almost like he's going through the tuning process from the ground up. Aren't there premade circuits like he alluded to that would allow him to tune without risking his baby? Again... I'm a moron.

You need to re-read his posts. The project he has put together right now is a PROTOTYPE...that means that it isn't what the final setup will look like. With prototypes you have to have room to test and rework as necessary. He already stated that if this worked like he wanted it to, it would be miniaturized and put into a sealed project box about the size of a keyfob as well as use the factory ECU connectors.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

EXACTLY! How many of you would drive around with that breadboard under your hood? We're talking about very inexpensive, easily fatigueable parts, aren't we?

I'd be more afraid of the parts flying off the board than failing. Those bread boards aren't meant to be subjected to vibrations or of G forces you might incur during hard acceleration/braking/cornering. Terry seems to be well aware of this and is going to be coating everything in epoxy for rev 3.0

[bnj]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

EXACTLY! How many of you would drive around with that breadboard under your hood? We're talking about very inexpensive, easily fatigueable parts, aren't we? I never took anything but one High School and 2 University physics courses (and I have 1/10000th the knowledge Terry does), but aren't these type of components unreliable? Anyways, it seems he knows what he's doing, but he's using components I wouldn't trust in my baby. It's almost like he's going through the tuning process from the ground up. Aren't there premade circuits like he alluded to that would allow him to tune without risking his baby? Again... I'm a moron.

I was almost suggesting you to put Terry and his threads into your ignore list, but reading your posts again I'm sure that Terry can appreciate your empathy towards him and his car. So you are a nice guy - not a problem maker So keep on board!

[A. Hansen]

Terry, what kind of chip do you use...

Is it fast enough ?

[DrDomer]

Seriously... I understand this is a prototype. How do the "big boys" tune cars? Do they start out with resistors, etc? If so, then nevermind. If not, what do they use to start out? Seems like Terry has the knowledge to start the same controllers they do. He may not yet know how to fully tune the car, but do it so he has complete reliability and control. Maybe those "tuning" systems people talk about aren't available for the 335i. Anyways, go get 'em Sparky!

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by A. Hoogstraate

Terry, what kind of chip do you use...

Is it fast enough ?

It's just a little op-amp. It's rated to switch several times per second along with the transistors, although in this basic configuration it only needs to switch once per 12.5 seconds.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Yes, the interceptor/xede are programmable microcontrollers. These are obviously a lot more advanced, although much less complicated than many think. You can buy a "Microcontroller 101" kit at Radio Shack for $79 that includes USB upload, several I/O channels, software, and a book. Once you develop a circuit, the microcontroller chips are less than $10 in many cases.

Once I master discrete components I’ll work my way up to microcontrollers, but I don’t think a microcontroller is required to achieve procede/xede v1 type results (~330-350rwhp)

Do you know how many PowerPC processors a 7 Series has, it has 11 which control all sort of functions of the car. As we all know the BWM technology rolls downs from there. You can expect the 3 Series to have a fair number itself.

I think you are trying to do things the old analog way, so much of what cars do today is digitally controlled. Plus in order for the cars to be smooth at what they do you need the speed of a processor and all the software around it. Also, these computers are state machines so they do different things depending on the state of various inputs and outputs. Doing things in an analog way without a state machine becomes very complicated and limited. I am not saying it can no be done, but I think the problems becomes complicated very quickly.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Do you know how many PowerPC processors a 7 Series has, it has 11 which control all sort of functions of the car. As we all know the BWM technology rolls downs from there. You can expect the 3 Series to have a fair number itself.

I think you are trying to do things the old analog way, so much of what cars do today is digitally controlled. Plus in order for the cars to be smooth at what they do you need the speed of a processor and all the software around it. Also, these computers are state machines so they do different things depending on the state of various inputs and outputs. Doing things in an analog way without a state machine becomes very complicated and limited. I am not saying it can no be done, but I think the problems becomes complicated very quickly.

As long as you stick with the analog sensors (o2, tmap, etc) it's pretty easy. If you start going in to the digital sensors (vanos control, cps, etc) it gets more complicated. We'll see how far I get with the analog sensors.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

EXACTLY! How many of you would drive around with that breadboard under your hood? We're talking about very inexpensive, easily fatigueable parts, aren't we? I never took anything but one High School and 2 University physics courses (and I have 1/10000th the knowledge Terry does), but aren't these type of components unreliable? Anyways, it seems he knows what he's doing, but he's using components I wouldn't trust in my baby. It's almost like he's going through the tuning process from the ground up. Aren't there premade circuits like he alluded to that would allow him to tune without risking his baby? Again... I'm a moron.

I don't really know anything, this is all basic stuff. I'm just a amateur tuner who happens to have bought a car that is easy to modify.

These basic resistors, transisitors, diodes, etc are the basis of every electric device out there, including the procede. They are as reliable as your toaster.

[A. Hansen]

How can you keep the AF ratios in order with this setup ?

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by Terry335

They are as reliable as your toaster.

Have you made toast recently? What's reliable?

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by A. Hoogstraate

How can you keep the AF ratios in order with this setup ?

The two transistors on the left (with diodes leading in to the base) pull ~.35ma from the o2 sensor circuit when over 5psi. The result is the ECU will add more fuel as it thinks it's running lean. When the wideband comes in I will adjust the resistor value as needed to get to 1-1.5pt richer than stock @ WOT.

[judec]

Terry, most of your sound posts in other threads suck, but regarding your work and achievement I can't say anything else like

[A. Hansen]

aren't you afraid of running rich (burning cats), or is this value based on tt or p.
How about 6th gear half throttle ? (6 psi)

How do/did you measure AFR ?

[musc]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

The guys got balls, I'll give him that. As far as blowing up his BMW, do you think it's a great idea to drive around with a bread boarded prototype circuit underhood? He's also doesn't seem to have a way of controlling A/F ratios yet. Do you know what more boost without enough fuel leads to?

That's primarily why he has limited his boost to about 10 psi with 91 octane. Looks like at that point, the ECU is still able to compensate without knocking or retarding the timing. I think the Turbo Tuner pushes the boost beyond this without any appreciable change in the A/F, yet many have used the Turbo Tuner without hesitation. At least he is being relatively cautious with boost levels, only raising them once he has achieved the ability to richen the A/F with ****** V2.

It's not likely that his car will go KABOOM. He seems to be approaching things in a safe manner even if his 'bread boards' and 'resistors' look rather rudimentary.

[judec]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I think you are trying to do things the old analog way, so much of what cars do today is digitally controlled.

LOL, first of all I have to state that I am not going to try this, I am exploring this from pure scientific reasons, but ->

1. U are right, the cars are digitally controlled.
2. That does not mean they have digital inputs to do that. In fact they are loaded with classic analog sensors connected to D/A converters in ECU. So actually this "hacking" can work w/o problems, if U keep it between safe boundaries. Now this is where the problem begins, so I wish U good luck, Terry

PS: The basics never change. E=mc2

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by A. Hoogstraate

aren't you afraid of running rich (burning cats), or is this based on tt or p.
How about 6th gear half throttle ? (6 psi)

How do/did you measure AFR ?

Running rich won't hurt cats, it will still be a little leaner than the procede in the midrange as I won't be running as much boost down low. It will richen up at any point over 5psi (I might adjust that up or down based on road testing).

I ordered a portable wideband setup to monitor AF:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=190120834161

I'll be able to move it from project to project, it plugs in to the cigarette lighter and I'll put the sensor in place of one of the rear sensors for testing.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by judec

PS: The basics never change. E=mc2

Didn't they recently prove an electron exceeded the speed of light? Oops!

[A. Hansen]

A catalytic converter will get overheated if the engine is running too rich.
If you get unburnt fuel in the cat.

anyway

it lookes you did your homework.

But be carefull

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by judec

LOL, first of all I have to state that I am not going to try this, I am exploring this from pure scientific reasons, but ->

1. U are right, the cars are digitally controlled.
2. That does not mean they have digital inputs to do that. In fact they are loaded with classic analog sensors connected to D/A converters in ECU. So actually this "hacking" can work w/o problems, if U keep it between safe boundaries. Now this is where the problem begins, so I wish U good luck, Terry

PS: The basics never change. E=mc2

Your correct, right after writing that, I realize they still have to convert all the analog inputs to digital which is done with A/D and you could manipulate those. But you still need to understand the state machine and what the software is doing with the inputs under various conditions. This where the trail and error come into play.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Didn't they recently prove an electron exceeded the speed of light? Oops!

Yes, but not in a way that violates E=MC2. No oops yet.

[judec]

Terry, where do U get the ECU connectors from? Price?