ATF in Manual Gearbox

Phil325i · 01-02-2024, 05:26 AM

Anyone here tried using ATF in their manual trans? I find in the winter the recommended 75W-90 makes first to second changes when cold pretty stiff. I've read elsewhere that changing to ATF can cure this, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried it, and whether there are any downsides...

Tambohamilton · 01-02-2024, 07:53 AM

I run liqui moly top tec 1100 in mine. It hasn't cured the cold shifting, but it's better than the 2 previous conventional oils I tried.

I've heard on the forum that Redline MT-LV works well when cold, so maybe worth a try?

M539 restorations puts 50/50 ATF MTF mix in his and swears by it...though he swears by a lot of things. Can't remember the exact fluids he's using, but they're both liqui moly.

0l0dom0l0 · 01-02-2024, 04:18 PM

It's a case of "they all do that sir".

I went for the genuine BMW manual transmission fluid and my box is silky smooth. I'd recommend.

I went for AFT in my old E81 and it didn't last.

Phil325i · 01-03-2024, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0l0dom0l0

I went for the genuine BMW manual transmission fluid and my box is silky smooth. I'd recommend.

Does that include when cold? I'll set aside my Mobil 1 SHC for this change and try the OEM fluid...

0l0dom0l0 · 01-06-2024, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Does that include when cold? I'll set aside my Mobil 1 SHC for this change and try the OEM fluid...

Yes it seems good all round. I certainly don't notice the need for it to warm up to feel right.

Malteser_wfj · 01-09-2024, 04:50 AM

I've got 2l of the genuine stuff at home waiting for me to change it over - just need to pick the car up from the engine rebuild first.

Should be changing it within the next few weeks so I'll get an idea of the current cold shifting between now and then.

(2012 335i manual on 120k miles - presumed factory fluid in gearbox & diff)

Malteser_wfj · 01-15-2024, 02:45 AM

So I drained the original fluid and put in the new BMW stuff - it took around 1.25 litres.

This morning it was -2C and the cold shifts were much much better, but the box was still a bit reluctant to go into reverse and 1st at the start.

Shifts are smooth and the gearbox feels nicer to use. I will be replacing the linkage bushes soon over the next few months as I had them changed on my previous E46 330ci and it made a big difference.

Tambohamilton · 01-15-2024, 03:11 AM

Extra points for actually replacing the fill and drain plugs - I never do that

Malteser_wfj · 01-15-2024, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Extra points for actually replacing the fill and drain plugs - I never do that

They cost me like £15 plus postage for both so I thought it was worth it. I get a little discount on dealer parts by being a member of the BWM car club GB.

I didn't torque them properly though as I only have big hex keys and not the ones that go onto a socket. They were properly tight to undo so I did them back as pretty damn tight & cleaned the under tray so I can easily tell if they ever start leaking.

Tambohamilton · 01-15-2024, 04:23 AM

They won't leak, no worries.

How much did you pay for the oil, if you don't mind me asking?

Malteser_wfj · 01-15-2024, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

They won't leak, no worries.

How much did you pay for the oil, if you don't mind me asking?

Yeah I don't mind at all.

I thought the diff oil came in 1l containers and not 0.5l which makes it extortionate tbh. I'm over 30 days from when I ordered it so will suck it up but I would suggest an alternative.

£60 for 1l of oil is bad!!

Tambohamilton · 01-15-2024, 05:54 AM

Yeah, that's a crazy price for diff oil!

Not bad for the transmission oil though - I seemed to remember £30/L for that stuff, but £35 all in is acceptable.

Phil325i · 01-16-2024, 04:18 AM

Anyone looking for an alternative for the diff, I use this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283587831229

Impressed with the way it quietened diff noise...

Malteser_wfj · 01-16-2024, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Anyone looking for an alternative for the diff, I use this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283587831229

Impressed with the way it quietened diff noise...

That looks like a good product and nice to know it reduces noise!

Will_460cs · 02-08-2024, 06:21 AM

Im pretty sure the BMW stuff is made by FUchs, I am running Fuchs in mine at it seems fine. Biggest improvement wass replacing the £5 rubber bush at the back of the linkage which clips into the body. That remove allot of loose movement... In the past I have replaced everything but this one cheap bush i think is responsible for allot of the slop in the gearshift (ie rocking gearshift when in gear)

Tambohamilton · 02-08-2024, 06:25 AM

I replaced my original oil with Fuchs, and wasn't overly impressed. Certainly the ATF I have in there right now is better, but I think it could be improved significantly still.

Good info about the bush though - got a part no?

Phil325i · 02-08-2024, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

Im pretty sure the BMW stuff is made by FUchs, I am running Fuchs in mine at it seems fine. Biggest improvement wass replacing the £5 rubber bush at the back of the linkage which clips into the body. That remove allot of loose movement... In the past I have replaced everything but this one cheap bush i think is responsible for allot of the slop in the gearshift (ie rocking gearshift when in gear)

Do you mean this one? This is a pic from RealOEM part Number 25111222015.

Name: 25111222015.jpg
Views: 96
Size: 89.0 KB

Will_460cs · 02-08-2024, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Do you mean this one? This is a pic from RealOEM part Number 25111222015.

Attachment 3383005

yes thats it..

Malteser_wfj · 02-08-2024, 09:11 AM

It's been a few weeks and the shifting is better. I had the subframe & rear diff bush changed which actually improved the shifting considerably. Also took the CDV out last weekend and while it's better, I wouldn't describe it as the OMG NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE BEST MOD EVER that I'd read it to be.

The changes are still more notchy and slow than I'd like so think I'll go for an ATF blend sometime soon. In the E46 I had I think I put a MTF/ATF mix and really liked it.

I've got that rear carrier bushing, and the plastic cup, and trans mounts to be installed soon. I'm curious as to their contributions as I had the rubber bushes replaced in the E46 but not the plastic and that rear holder, so doing things slightly different this time around.

Will_460cs · 02-09-2024, 08:39 AM

Yeah I’m sure atf blend will improve cold shifting btw and was recommend in the e46m3 6 speed… I might try it next change…

Also I’d agree the CDV is a subtle change and certainly not night and day… I have removed them consistently tho from all my BMWs when bleeding the clutch.

If you have the time I’d recommend taking all the linkage components apart and cleaning them (I use a ultrasonic but elbow grease is fine!). I then reassmbke with silicone grease - do not use petroleum grease on plastic.

Tambohamilton · 02-09-2024, 09:04 AM

When I took the CDV out of mine I couldn't even tell the difference! Still, may as well not carry around another bit of plastic. I wonder if US spec cars got a more restrictive valve or something...

I wouldn't expect miracles from an ATF blend - I'm running 100% ATF and cold shifting is my issue still.

Malteser_wfj · 02-12-2024, 03:20 AM

Interesting to hear that ATF hasn't helped your cold shifting!

What else do you have that's new around the shifter assembly?

I can occasionally feel through the seat when I've slowed down and changed into 2nd or first while still rolling so am hoping that replacing the gearbox mounts will sort that. Only ever feel it when rolling, if I'm already stationary and have had the clutch out and then go into first there's nothing.

01-02-2024, 05:26 AM	#1
Phil325i Brigadier General 616 Rep 3,194 Posts Drives: E92 325i MSport Coupe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK South East iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW 325i Coupe [6.00]	ATF in Manual Gearbox Anyone here tried using ATF in their manual trans? I find in the winter the recommended 75W-90 makes first to second changes when cold pretty stiff. I've read elsewhere that changing to ATF can cure this, but I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried it, and whether there are any downsides... __________________ E92 pre-LCI 325i - Ohlins R&T; H&R spacers; M3 strut brace; Swift thrust sheets; 3 x chassis braces; diff brace; N53 V-brace; 034 subframe inserts; BMS clutch stop; BMS CDV; RE g/box mounts; Delrin shift bushes; Saikoumichi OCC; Cyba scoops; BMW Perf Exhaust; HEL s/steel brake hoses; M3 rear spoiler; Recaro Sportster CSs; M3 white dash LEDs; LED Angels; LED side repeaters; BMW Perf black grille; CSL reps; SSDD carbon diffuser; Monster Wrap black roof/clear front
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01-02-2024, 07:53 AM	#2
Tambohamilton Brigadier General 3058 Rep 3,910 Posts Drives: E91 330d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Herefordshire iTrader: (0)	I run liqui moly top tec 1100 in mine. It hasn't cured the cold shifting, but it's better than the 2 previous conventional oils I tried. I've heard on the forum that Redline MT-LV works well when cold, so maybe worth a try? M539 restorations puts 50/50 ATF MTF mix in his and swears by it...though he swears by a lot of things. Can't remember the exact fluids he's using, but they're both liqui moly.
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01-02-2024, 04:18 PM	#3
0l0dom0l0 First Lieutenant 69 Rep 316 Posts Drives: BMW E92 330i Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Uk iTrader: (0)	It's a case of "they all do that sir". I went for the genuine BMW manual transmission fluid and my box is silky smooth. I'd recommend. I went for AFT in my old E81 and it didn't last.
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01-09-2024, 04:50 AM	#6
Malteser_wfj Private 49 Rep 64 Posts Drives: BMW 335i 2012 Manual Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: South East, UK iTrader: (0)	I've got 2l of the genuine stuff at home waiting for me to change it over - just need to pick the car up from the engine rebuild first. Should be changing it within the next few weeks so I'll get an idea of the current cold shifting between now and then. (2012 335i manual on 120k miles - presumed factory fluid in gearbox & diff)
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01-15-2024, 02:45 AM	#7
Malteser_wfj Private 49 Rep 64 Posts Drives: BMW 335i 2012 Manual Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: South East, UK iTrader: (0)	So I drained the original fluid and put in the new BMW stuff - it took around 1.25 litres. This morning it was -2C and the cold shifts were much much better, but the box was still a bit reluctant to go into reverse and 1st at the start. Shifts are smooth and the gearbox feels nicer to use. I will be replacing the linkage bushes soon over the next few months as I had them changed on my previous E46 330ci and it made a big difference. Attached Images
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01-15-2024, 03:11 AM	#8
Tambohamilton Brigadier General 3058 Rep 3,910 Posts Drives: E91 330d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Herefordshire iTrader: (0)	Extra points for actually replacing the fill and drain plugs - I never do that
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01-15-2024, 04:23 AM	#10
Tambohamilton Brigadier General 3058 Rep 3,910 Posts Drives: E91 330d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Herefordshire iTrader: (0)	They won't leak, no worries. How much did you pay for the oil, if you don't mind me asking?
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01-15-2024, 05:54 AM	#12
Tambohamilton Brigadier General 3058 Rep 3,910 Posts Drives: E91 330d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Herefordshire iTrader: (0)	Yeah, that's a crazy price for diff oil! Not bad for the transmission oil though - I seemed to remember £30/L for that stuff, but £35 all in is acceptable.
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01-16-2024, 04:18 AM	#13
Phil325i Brigadier General 616 Rep 3,194 Posts Drives: E92 325i MSport Coupe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK South East iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW 325i Coupe [6.00]	Anyone looking for an alternative for the diff, I use this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283587831229 Impressed with the way it quietened diff noise... __________________ E92 pre-LCI 325i - Ohlins R&T; H&R spacers; M3 strut brace; Swift thrust sheets; 3 x chassis braces; diff brace; N53 V-brace; 034 subframe inserts; BMS clutch stop; BMS CDV; RE g/box mounts; Delrin shift bushes; Saikoumichi OCC; Cyba scoops; BMW Perf Exhaust; HEL s/steel brake hoses; M3 rear spoiler; Recaro Sportster CSs; M3 white dash LEDs; LED Angels; LED side repeaters; BMW Perf black grille; CSL reps; SSDD carbon diffuser; Monster Wrap black roof/clear front
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02-08-2024, 06:21 AM	#15
Will_460cs Lieutenant 209 Rep 461 Posts Drives: E46m3 e91 N53 e90 n55 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Cambridgeshire iTrader: (0)	Im pretty sure the BMW stuff is made by FUchs, I am running Fuchs in mine at it seems fine. Biggest improvement wass replacing the £5 rubber bush at the back of the linkage which clips into the body. That remove allot of loose movement... In the past I have replaced everything but this one cheap bush i think is responsible for allot of the slop in the gearshift (ie rocking gearshift when in gear)
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02-08-2024, 06:25 AM	#16
Tambohamilton Brigadier General 3058 Rep 3,910 Posts Drives: E91 330d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Herefordshire iTrader: (0)	I replaced my original oil with Fuchs, and wasn't overly impressed. Certainly the ATF I have in there right now is better, but I think it could be improved significantly still. Good info about the bush though - got a part no? Last edited by Tambohamilton; 02-08-2024 at 08:17 AM..
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02-08-2024, 09:11 AM	#19
Malteser_wfj Private 49 Rep 64 Posts Drives: BMW 335i 2012 Manual Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: South East, UK iTrader: (0)	It's been a few weeks and the shifting is better. I had the subframe & rear diff bush changed which actually improved the shifting considerably. Also took the CDV out last weekend and while it's better, I wouldn't describe it as the OMG NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE BEST MOD EVER that I'd read it to be. The changes are still more notchy and slow than I'd like so think I'll go for an ATF blend sometime soon. In the E46 I had I think I put a MTF/ATF mix and really liked it. I've got that rear carrier bushing, and the plastic cup, and trans mounts to be installed soon. I'm curious as to their contributions as I had the rubber bushes replaced in the E46 but not the plastic and that rear holder, so doing things slightly different this time around.
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02-09-2024, 08:39 AM	#20
Will_460cs Lieutenant 209 Rep 461 Posts Drives: E46m3 e91 N53 e90 n55 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Cambridgeshire iTrader: (0)	Yeah I’m sure atf blend will improve cold shifting btw and was recommend in the e46m3 6 speed… I might try it next change… Also I’d agree the CDV is a subtle change and certainly not night and day… I have removed them consistently tho from all my BMWs when bleeding the clutch. If you have the time I’d recommend taking all the linkage components apart and cleaning them (I use a ultrasonic but elbow grease is fine!). I then reassmbke with silicone grease - do not use petroleum grease on plastic.
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02-09-2024, 09:04 AM	#21
Tambohamilton Brigadier General 3058 Rep 3,910 Posts Drives: E91 330d Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Herefordshire iTrader: (0)	When I took the CDV out of mine I couldn't even tell the difference! Still, may as well not carry around another bit of plastic. I wonder if US spec cars got a more restrictive valve or something... I wouldn't expect miracles from an ATF blend - I'm running 100% ATF and cold shifting is my issue still.
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02-12-2024, 03:20 AM	#22
Malteser_wfj Private 49 Rep 64 Posts Drives: BMW 335i 2012 Manual Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: South East, UK iTrader: (0)	Interesting to hear that ATF hasn't helped your cold shifting! What else do you have that's new around the shifter assembly? I can occasionally feel through the seat when I've slowed down and changed into 2nd or first while still rolling so am hoping that replacing the gearbox mounts will sort that. Only ever feel it when rolling, if I'm already stationary and have had the clutch out and then go into first there's nothing.
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