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      08-15-2019, 06:03 AM   #1
Zack1uk
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Question Base Audio Upgrade - Audison Prima DSP Amp - Confused

Hi

I've just bought a second hand Audison Prima AP5.9 to fit into my E84 BMW X1 (Business Nav 606, base speakers). Hope its Ok to post here, but the x1 forums seem to be more about bodywork, interior and reverse cam mods, and there seems to be a lot more knowledge and experience here re audio..

Its a 5 channel (2x20w, 2x50W +1x190w(@4ohm) or 1x290W (@2Ohm), with DSP (effectively a built in Bit10). Audison tend to be very conservative (like genesis of old), however, the 2x20w and 2x50w is still a bit limiting, so I'm a bit mixed up on which way to wire the speakers and would really appreciate any thoughts from those more experienced or educated than me.

I'm going to replace the underseat woofers, and front door speakers with components, probably the focal (plus earthquake sub), Eton or Gladen kit whilst (probably) leaving the rear speakers connected to the HU.

The constraints I have are:
  • Cost - Those Audison harness cost an arm and a leg (240 for the full set for total OEM)
  • Running the two underseat 'subs' in mono - as they aren't really subwoofers, more like big woofers, can / should they be run in mono?
  • Not keen on running new speaker wires through the door grommets.
  • Is 2x20W (albeit Audison watts) enough for the front components (its one of the suggested setups in the audison manual, but I'm not sure if it could be done better)
  • Two one year old twins - so the days of spending a weekend tearing an interior apart to install ICE are long gone

1) HU powers rear speakers, Prima B5.9 powers front mid woofers (2x50W) and tweeters (2x20W) actively , with the sub channel powering both woofers in mono (parallel, 1x270W@2Ohm).
Needs harnesses AP SPK OUT 5.9, APBMW BIAMP 1, AP 560P&P I/O, AP T-H BMW01 plus additional wires from the amp to the front tweeters, plus a link to parallel wire the subs.
- I don't want to install extra wires through the door grommets.
- Cost of all the harnesses
- Are these 'subs' sub enough to be run in mono.
- Harder installation
+ Probably the best sound quality?

2) HU powers rear speakers, Prima 5.9 powers front speakers using passive crossovers (2x20W), and powers both 'sub'woofers in stereo (2x50W).
Needs harness AP SPK OUT 5.9, custom wires to pick up high level from car wiring loom subwoofer connector to amp high level input and supply door speaker supply back from amp to subwoofer connector.
- Not sure about this as I don't think that 2x20W will be enough for the front components.
+ cost
+ ease of installation (probably the easiest as I only have to remove trim from the seats going to boot)
+ It would also leave me a 150W output to run a "removable" proper sub in the boot (I have an old Focal 10inch utopia spare)

3) HU powers rear speakers, Prima 5.9 powers front speakers using passive crossovers (2x50W), and powers both 'sub'woofers in Mono (parallel, 1x270W@2Ohm).
Needs harness AP SPK OUT 5.9, APBMW BIAMP 1 (modded to parallel), custom wires to pick up high level from car wiring loom subwoofer connector to amp high level input and supply door speaker supply back from amp to subwoofer connector.
- wasted 2x20W channel on amp
- Are these 'subs' sub enough to be run in mono.
+ cost
+ ease of installation.

4) Prima 5.9 powers front speakers using passive crossovers (2x50W), rear speakers (2x20W), and the sub channel powering both woofers in mono (parallel, 1x270W@2Ohm).
Needs harnesses AP SPK OUT 5.9, APBMW BIAMP 1, AP 560P&P I/O, AP T-H BMW01 plus a link to parallel wire the subs.
- Are these 'subs' sub enough to be run in mono.
- Cost
+ ease of installation.
+ Uses all channels of the amp


5) Prima 5.9 powers front speakers (using passive crossovers) and subwoofers in parallel (2x90W as the subs will be in parallel to the components effectively 2ohm), rear speakers (2x20W).
Needs harnesses AP SPK OUT 5.9, AP 560P&P I/O, AP T-H BMW01.
- Cost
- 'subs' won't be low filtered.
+ ease of installation.
+ It would also leave me a 150W output to run a "removable" proper sub in the boot (I have an old Focal 10inch utopia spare)

Or is there another option?

Also, I see that the Audison B5.9 can take power from the dash using DCC (Direct cockpit current). Although this sounds easy, I assume that it would still be better quality to take a feed from the battery (in the boot, near to the amp). What do you think.

On another note the Gladen 3 way speaker set seems to be really good value compared to the focals or eton. Not heard of them before ...safe buy?

I do have some old 4inch infinity kappa mids (from the 3 way component set with the 6x9 woofers and emit tweeters which wouldn't be used) and some DLS 2way components. I thought about combining the DLS tweeters and xovers with the kappa 4inch woofers....is this a daft idea? (Might be ok in an active setup)

Thanks and apologies for wall of text.
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      08-15-2019, 11:40 AM   #2
ctuna
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20 watts a channel seems weak to do anything with except
maybe tweeters. (especially to drive aftermarket speakers)

Technicpnp harness recommended.

Looks like you need more watts per channel if you want to drive
aftermarkets.

Base System Upgrades
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003810
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1378833
base system wiring pre/post 3/09
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...tDpLJPcGkw_ui_
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904

Because the doors are thin as well as the under seat locations its best
to stick to the known to fit speaker lists. At least in a e9x.

Get another amp for more power. Run the doors or the floors on that.
In stereo for floors.
Forget about the rear seat speakers. Do what you want with the subwoofer channel.

BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
http://bmwcoders.com/forum/3-er-8/bm...1-e92-e93-291/
http://technicpnp.com/menuDiagrams/d...e90_92_93.html
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...3&d=1169133185
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872

Last edited by ctuna; 08-15-2019 at 11:54 AM..
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      08-16-2019, 02:12 AM   #3
Zack1uk
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Thanks muchly for the response (and all the links). Most I have read, but none (that I could see) used an active setup for the front speakers.

I've bought the amp now, so going to stick with it (and pray that Audison really do underplay their wattage ratings). To be honest I'm looking for clarity and soundstage rather than loudness, as I rarely play my tunes very loud due to rarely driving the car on my own.

My current thoughts are now :

A) Source a set of standard HiFi woofers to replace my UK base spec ones, and run these in mono from the sub output (270W@2ohm)
B) Reuse a pair of Infinity Kappa 4 inches (from the old CS1b set), I have knocking around, 2x50w
And either (both avoiding the need for an extra wire through the door grommet
1) Reuse a pair of Infinity Emit tweeters (from same set) at 20W surface mounted on the dash pointing up and bouncing off the windscreen, run actively off the 2x20W, or
2) Reuse a pair of DSL tweeters in the door pods, with the passive DSL highpass crossovers, off the same 2x50W as the kappa 4 inch (using the DSL low pass crossover).
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      08-16-2019, 03:08 AM   #4
Zack1uk
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Scratch that, I've just checked the kappa mids, and the foam surrounds have deteriorated to the point that the cones have separated.

So I'm now back to a set of components. Audison, Focal, Gladdon, Eton (but no x overs it seems) or ?
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      08-16-2019, 05:20 AM   #5
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Run the extra wires to the doors and go active with the door mids and tweeters. 50/20 Audison watts to those drivers will be an improvement over the stock/base head unit power.

Heed ctuna's advice on component selection. E9x doors have tighter space constraints than most other cars and they also mount differently than most other drivers, with the biggest difference being 3 points of fastening instead of 4. My advice would be to go with the BMW OEM "Individual" system mids and tweeters, they're good quality drivers on par with some of the brands you mention and they'll bolt right in.

Personally, I think you'll be fine running the under seats in mono. Is it ideal? No, but unless you're willing to add another amplifier, that's your best(only) option if you're looking for an improvement there while keeping the amp you have. Go with OEM L7 or Individual drivers for those. There are aftermarket options for the under seats that will fit, some require adapter rings, but the 2 OEM options are pretty good with a good amount of power to them. If budget is a concern and you decide you're not happy with the under seats in mono, go with the above and save up for another amp. The Audison AP4 D would do well there and provide 130 watts to each under seat.
This would also free up the 5th channel on the 5.9 if you ever wanted to add a small sub later on.

Edit: Forgot you're talking about the E84. I have no idea what space and mounting constraints you have for driver selection in that chassis. Figure that out before you start buying drivers the way you did an amp that may not be ideal.
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      08-16-2019, 11:56 AM   #6
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Thanks.

I've (hopefully) scored a decent deal on a pair of underseat HiFi subs (the base ones are only 6.5 inch) for 24 the pair, including the enclosures from a 3 series which realOEM shows (According to part no.s) are a straight swap into my E84.

Re the mids will do and run active, but am going to have a go at repairing my Infinity Kappa mids and using those (they have to be better than the base stereo drivers???) and will (for ease of wiring) probably put the emit tweeters on the dash, although once I've got the door cards off I'll check out how easy it is to run cables through the connector block to the door and might either surface mount the Emits (on axis) or use the DSL tweeters (T20) in the existing pods.

That said I'll look out for some L7 / HK mids and tweets.

The 4 inch kappas are rated at Nominal 25W, max 50W, so if anything they'll be overpowered by the audison. I've checked dimensions and they are no deeper than the custom fit speakers. Also as they are mounted to the door metalwork rather than the door card (with a slim 4 hole to 3 hole adapter) there shouldn't be any space constraints....famous last words.

Now....off to study how to use the Audison software!

Thanks again

Edit: They are mounted to the door cards

Last edited by Zack1uk; 08-18-2019 at 03:03 PM.. Reason: Correction
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      08-19-2019, 09:18 AM   #7
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Since you're going active, might be worth looking into some "diy" speaker drivers. Morel makes several different mids that fit in the e90 doors, and they are excellent quality, and play nice and low, down to about 100Hz. You can get into really high quality components, for relatively little money.
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      08-19-2019, 10:06 AM   #8
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Some info on this page: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...1103968&page=3

After having fiddled around the e90 doors for over a decade, I can tell you that for me the single most important characteristic of a door midrange driver is its ability to play loooooowww. I'm talking the lower the better, and as much as physics allows. The difference in the sound between a midrange high-passed at 200Hz vs. 100Hz is absolutely shocking.

Keep in mind though you only have 50 Watts, and a good midrange "wants" more than double that. If you don't care about the system's ability to go crazy loud however, 50W should be fine.
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