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How much do we really know about climate?
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09-27-2022, 04:15 PM | #23 | |
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Why is it so many climate protagonists only seem to consider a binary all or nothing choice?
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09-27-2022, 04:27 PM | #25 | |
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This topic is discussed with such hyperbole. Obviously there is useless spending, programs that are only politically-motivated, etc. That's a whole different thing. First we have to get past the argument of whether anything at all should be done, vs. just YOLO'ing the planet into our children's hands. After that it becomes a more nuanced discussion on what's going to be most effective and reduce the risk of climate change for the future. And at a certain point we have to trust scientists to get that answer and I think a lot of people just want to write it all off because it's a long-term problem and we as a society are bad at solving those kinds of issues. |
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09-27-2022, 04:46 PM | #26 | |
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09-28-2022, 05:04 AM | #27 |
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The physics of climate change are very well established. We know how and way certain gases cause heat to be retained. It's well enough known and for long enough that the idea that the earth should be expected to warm as atmospheric GHG concentrations increased due to our fossil fuel combustion is over 100 years old.
People talk a lot about climate models, but what we know about climate change comes from more than a model. We have multiple lines of evidence, many, many proxies, ice core data…lots of data..all of which point to the same conclusion which is consistent with basic physics and that is we have and will continue to experience warming due to anthropogenic build up of GHGs. We know a GREAT deal about past warming as well and many of the past anomalies are well explained and supported by data. We understand why the earth moves into warm and cold periods and why ice ages happen. It's not a mystery and it's not a scam. It's not alarmism on the part of scientists and nobody has simple correlations unsupported by causal mechanisms. Our understanding of climate is substantial and well documented. And we should use that knowledge to decide whether or not continuing to pump GHGs into the atmosphere at our current rate is fair to future generations. Really. VERY WELL established and documented. |
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09-28-2022, 06:19 AM | #28 | ||
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I'm often reminded of the phrase 'lunatics running the asylum' |
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09-28-2022, 07:51 AM | #29 | |
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09-28-2022, 08:03 AM | #30 |
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OP starts thread for "discussion" then has made 6 more posts antagonizing anyone who doesn't agree with his particular view of the situation.
7 of 29 posts (not including this one). Yep, you weren't looking to stir the pot. Go have a Snickers. |
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09-28-2022, 08:47 AM | #31 |
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09-28-2022, 08:50 AM | #32 |
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I'm sorry where did I "antagonize" anyone? I believe it is called debating. Mainly what I am trying to point out, is we don't know what we don't know. I am sorry if I made anyone cry. I will remember to stay under the post quota being enforced by Okie, which is.. how many? I am 8 out of 30 now if you're still keeping track.
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09-28-2022, 11:41 AM | #33 | |
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Thanks for proving my point. |
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09-28-2022, 11:51 AM | #34 |
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Sorry, I didn't see a point in your post. All I read was whining about my post. So what is your point?
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09-28-2022, 01:15 PM | #36 | ||
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Clouds were tricky for a time, for example. We have a much better handle on that now. We still can't model individual cloud formation across the globe, but we can account for their net effect. |
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09-28-2022, 01:26 PM | #37 | |
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09-28-2022, 09:42 PM | #40 |
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In Canada, we contribute 2% of worldwide pollution, we could stop everything tomorrow and it’d make essentially no change but yet we are taxed into oblivion to stop producing carbon dioxide, it’s a sham
If governments were truly trying to reduce carbon footprints for the good of the world, they’d place tariffs on products from the countries who are the worst offenders |
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09-28-2022, 09:49 PM | #41 |
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And in the 70’s, experts were most concerned of a coming ice age as narrated by Leonard Nimoy here;
And in the 80’s butter was going to kill you, use margarine instead… now margarine will kill you, better use butter |
09-28-2022, 09:54 PM | #42 | |
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09-29-2022, 12:42 AM | #43 | |
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There was a popular science piece based on some work on aerosols that discussed cooling, but the idea that climate scientists were running around worried about global cooling is demonstrably wrong. |
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09-29-2022, 07:53 AM | #44 |
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I don't believe some folks here know how science works.
When you say, how do we fix a problem when we can't isolate it. In the medical field we run tests to try and figure out what the problem is. The patient might say or think one thing, when in actuality its another. Just like a car, a mechanic needs to run tests to figure out what the issue is, then run more tests to see if that truly is the issue. When fixing things, we might end up finding another problem that needs to be addressed. This is life. The butter argument is a great example of how science works. We thought margarine was better for you than butter, when in reality it is far worse. This does not mean butter is good; butter is still bad for you, just not as bad a margarine. I mean, look at cigarettes or how about more recently, COVID. I live in Socal and I see the smog everyday. When I travel to Central CA and go over the Grapevine, I can literally see the smog layer. You can't tell me that is natural. When my family goes scuba diving in Hawaii and tell me how devastated the reefs are, you can't tell me that's natural. |
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