[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by dazzapb

hey serjames, i could be interested..wonder what sort of £ we'd be looking at.

always wonder if you get a remap of the ECU, would an i-drive update etc from the dealer overwrite it?????

Hi mate, i dont think an update to the i-drive software will affect the ecu in anyway... maybe someone could confirm this..?


Carl

[Yahoo]

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

I understand that the dealer may notice that a piggy back chip has been used as the ECU stores turbo temperatures which will run about 10% hotter under the extra load.

If turbo temps run higher with a chip, surely they would do likewise with a remap - therefore this wouldn't make any difference between the mods. If the only means a dealer has of detecting whether a chip/remap has been used are turbo temps, this surely wouldn't be sufficient to justify voiding a warranty. There are a number of reasons for running higher turbo temps, to suggest that this would be due to engine mods would be pure speculation.

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

I think that remaps are much more difficult to detect unless they upload the software out of the ECU and look for it.

I would have thought that a piggyback would be better with regards to warranty work. After some practice, I am sure the Procede chip would be quick enough to uninstall before a trip to the dealers. This way there would be nothing left for the dealership to detect that the car has been modded. Dealers can detect remaps (I have been led to believe) as dealers have the facility to run a checksum programme to detect any discrepencies in the ECU software. Also, some remaps update a counter each time it is uploaded to the ECU.

All things considered, I would be more comfortable with using a piggy back chip and removing it before sending the car to my dealers than sending it in with a remapped ECU.

[Evil Diesel]

I don't think so - in the diesel the remap is only taking out the built in flat spots in the standard software which were put there mainly for acoustic and possibly emissions reasons at certain revs.

You are going to push the engine any harder by remapping and therefore the temps are not going to end up much higher.

I haven't looked into how the PROceed chips work but most additional chips alter the fuel and timing. As more fuel is being pushed in higher turbo temps are inevitable.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

I don't think so - in the diesel the remap is only taking out the built in flat spots in the standard software which were put there mainly for acoustic and possibly emissions reasons at certain revs.

You are going to push the engine any harder by remapping and therefore the temps are not going to end up much higher.

I haven't looked into how the PROceed chips work but most additional chips alter the fuel and timing. As more fuel is being pushed in higher turbo temps are inevitable.

you dont gain 64bhp and 120ib ft torque by just erasing flat spots mate

it will be quite an altered map with higher boost pressures and altered fueling to match increase boost pressure



you can lose flats spots with a map but that will just make the car smoother and more reponsive and maybe give 5-10bhp... this is a propa re-map that DMS and CAA offer to give a considerable increase in performance:rocks:

Carl

[Evil Diesel]

This is what CAA say -

Benefits are gained by ‘ironing out’ the compromises that are purposefully engineered into the car’s management system programme by the manufacturer (to allow for all extreme variations of weather, petrol grade, general atmospheric conditions in different parts of the world, as well as to allow longer intervals between engine services), thus attaining genuine increases in smoothness,driveability, throttle response, power and torque.The engine's "flat spots" (usually two) that are purposefully engineered into the power curve at the factory (so as to pass emission and noise regulations at those particular RPM locations) are also eliminated.

As well as adjusting the fuel/air /ignition/boost parameters we also (where appropriate ) remap the Vanos or cam timing system ( many tuners do not, or do not kno whow) and remove the top speed limiter. We can also tailor our software maps to suit most engine modifications such as intakes, sport cams, de catalised exhaust systems etc without putting your car onto a dyno ( see further note on dyno use below).

SAFETY AND WARANTY
The new software can easily be reverted back to the factory map at any time.

A remap is usually "invisible" to your BMW dealer.

This form of tuning is perfectly safe for your car’s engine as long as it is serviced regularly (we recommend at least every 7000 mls on high perf/spec vehicles) and uses the best grade fuel available.

[Yahoo]

So the DMS remap achieves +40-50 bhp by purely taking out flat spots on the standard map and without pushing the turbo or engine harder than stock?

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

So the DMS remap achieves +40-50 bhp by purely taking out flat spots on the standard map and without pushing the turbo or engine harder than stock?

Bollox mate

yes re-mapping will take out flat spots anyway... THEY are altering boost pressure fuel pressures and other various things to acheive 50 pdd bhp and 100 odd torque

nowt wrong with that tho

Carl

[dxb335d]

man if they were that flat spotted and needed that much ironing out they would be running like bags of shite

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Evil Diesel

This is what CAA say -


As well as adjusting the fuel/air /ignition/boost parameters

[Evil Diesel]

A bag of shite producing 286 bhp and 580 n/m torque

[dxb335d]

nd what im saying evil mate is, they are doing more than just ironing out the odd flatspot, they are increasing boost pressure.. fueling etc

[ChrisMWard]

Well if everybodys worried about what the dealer says and warranties, just bite the bullet and get the Hartge conversion, that doesn't effect the warranty and is factory approved.

Regards

Chris

[1stKnight]

Originally Posted by ChrisMWard

Well if everybodys worried about what the dealer says and warranties, just bite the bullet and get the Hartge conversion, that doesn't effect the warranty and is factory approved.

Regards

Chris

Seriously?

I would pay extra for a factory approved conversion but I thought the Hartge version would void the BMW warranty.

[dazzapb]

interesting as re: hartge being bmw approved.. (birdsauto are the dealer in the uk i believe) that could explain whys its £2k+

dont think remapping can change emissions levels, i remember reading that another sensor will control this otherwise you could go into another co2 bracket?

[Serjames]

I think you're worrying a little too much about what the dealer might or might not say if he spots or doesn't spot the mod.

ECU will need re-flashing everytime the mod is upgraded or if the ECU is re-programmed, i.e. for i-drive (pretty sure, unless someone know otherwise)

Also pretty impossible to hide THIS mod, unless you buy a second ECU to swap out !

For my money, around £600 by the way, I reackon the procede is the most developed, best supported option currently available for the 335i.

A re-flash, I guess, might seem more permenant, but I'd rather have a box of tricks I can simply unplug when I don't need it - and then re-sell !

I can't talk for the diesal version, but the procede changes, AFR, Boost pressure, the fuel curve, ignition timing, and I think the latest version tweaks the vanos control too.

It can also be modded to defeat the speed limiter, (something I will defo do even though I'll never use it, what's the point of building a car that can and then bolting a leash on it, JMHO)

fingers crossed there should in the future also be the ability to turn off the tuned map and go standard, for instance if your granny borrowed it.

Interesting for us penny concious UK folk is that the fuel economy will be improved also as the AFR is always out of whack on standard cars, it's been tweaked to perfection now and if driven normally (!) would probably get you better mileage

Anyway rather than arguing what ifs, and maybes, best to get over to the american forums and research what is actually available.

SJ

[1stKnight]

Originally Posted by Serjames

fingers crossed there should in the future also be the ability to turn off the tuned map and go standard, for instance if your granny borrowed it.

SJ

That would be a good feature on a remap. The Xede box from CA Automotive does this already - a switch is placed inside the glovebox. I'm tempted but would probably only make the leap to a box solution if it carried a similar warranty to the Hartge version whereby any engine fault attributed to the box would be covered by the supplier of it - assuming BMW proved this to be the case thereby negating their own Warranty.

I've looked into the Hartge option and decided that it was just too expensive; I would pay up to £1200 for a remap/box with Warranty cover but not more.

[Serjames]

The americans have a saying, "if you want to play you have to pay"

But in all reality I genuinely can't think of ANY damage this gadget can cause unless you Fubar up the wiring.

Remember all it's doing is intercepting signals from the ECU and tweaking them to suit a different map. A map that is running in hundreds of cars with no problems.

It doesn't defeat ANY of the engines own failsafe routines. The very fact that it has caused some limp modes with crap fuel and mis wiring in the US is proof that it can't really do any wrong - the engine will always shut itself down first (caveat Emptor!)

Why do you think those that warrenty these gadgets do? not because they are prepared to "pay for your engine damage" but because they know damn well they can charge more for this "peace of mind" knowing full well their gadget can do fook all to cause any problems.

It's only my opinion, but just because it's new to the BMW scene why should kit that runs perfectly on the average nutter's Scoobie and Evo be a problem for the BMW ?

SJ

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Serjames

The americans have a saying, "if you want to play you have to pay"

But in all reality I genuinely can't think of ANY damage this gadget can cause unless you Fubar up the wiring.

Remember all it's doing is intercepting signals from the ECU and tweaking them to suit a different map. A map that is running in hundreds of cars with no problems.

It doesn't defeat ANY of the engines own failsafe routines. The very fact that it has caused some limp modes with crap fuel and mis wiring in the US is proof that it can't really do any wrong - the engine will always shut itself down first (caveat Emptor!)

Why do you think those that warrenty these gadgets do? not because they are prepared to "pay for your engine damage" but because they know damn well they can charge more for this "peace of mind" knowing full well their gadget can do fook all to cause any problems.

It's only my opinion, but just because it's new to the BMW scene why should kit that runs perfectly on the average nutter's Scoobie and Evo be a problem for the BMW ?

SJ

scoobies and evos are melting all the time with aftermarket tuning

[Serjames]

Appreciate that Carl, you're right, I shouldn't have made such a sweeping statement. I've not heard of a single BM go bang with this yet though ? And it really sounds like those guys are nutters with their treatment too!

Given my, albeit limited, experience with the Scoobie and evo crowd, were any of those meltdowns more likely attributable to the 200kg bolt on nitrous bottle ! Or the ridiculous boost and afr's those guys run... ?

Bit of a different league this piggy back tune I feel, much more conservative.

As long as I can take on the R8 let alone the RS4 then I'll be happy - gotta have goals right ?

SJ

[sheps]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

scoobies and evos are melting all the time with aftermarket tuning

This tends to be where people are going for unrealistic outputs, from a relaitvely standard engine, just producing massive boost.

The engines that are built properly (with all components upgraded) can produce massive power, very reliably.

AFAIK the PROcede box of tricks doesn't work the engine unnecessarily hard, and gives a (for the size/engine config/turbo set-up) modest increase in power.

In my opinion the only reason the 335i didn't come out of the factory with PROcede levels of power in the first place is because, in terms of straight line speed, it would make a very difficult argument to pay another £15k for the new M3.....

Perhaps this is why BMW have made the 335i ECU such a tough nut to crack...would be quite embarrasing for them if their halo product could be upstaged by an easily tweaked 'standard' 3 series

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by sheps

This tends to be where people are going for unrealistic outputs, from a relaitvely standard engine, just producing massive boost.

The engines that are built properly (with all components upgraded) can produce massive power, very reliably.

AFAIK the PROcede box of tricks doesn't work the engine unnecessarily hard, and gives a (for the size/engine config/turbo set-up) modest increase in power.

In my opinion the only reason the 335i didn't come out of the factory with PROcede levels of power in the first place is because, in terms of straight line speed, it would make a very difficult argument to pay another £15k for the new M3.....

Perhaps this is why BMW have made the 335i ECU such a tough nut to crack...would be quite embarrasing for them if their halo product could be upstaged by an easily tweaked 'standard' 3 series

same as cosworths mate, if done right can be relaible... altho even with custom maps, the ecu can become lean for various reasons even after much money has been spent and ultimately melt like a beaut....

[sheps]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

same as cosworths mate, if done right can be relaible... altho even with custom maps, the ecu can become lean for various reasons even after much money has been spent and ultimately melt like a beaut....

Totally agree.

But the fail-safe protection of a 2007 BMW is slightly more sophisticated than that of a 1987 Sierra Cosworth (and even, to a degree a scoob or Evo).

I think a 335i will put you in a limited-boost, limp-home mode long before you did any damage, PROcede or not.

I would have no qualms about running one (I just need someone to give me a 335i to install one to )