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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 engine build :)



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      01-22-2016, 11:32 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
It looks pretty good from what I can tell. There is a little bit of carbon on the underside of the valve cover and around the oil cap, but actually on the inside of the head it all looks like a nice golden color.
Pretty amazing for a quarter million miles. But then I'm remembering Detroit iron from the sixties.
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      01-25-2016, 10:03 AM   #90
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popped the valve cover last night..



aside from a bit of carbon build up higher up (where there doesn't appear to be much oil flow) it's actually pretty surprising how little wear there actually is at 258k. Most of the head is really clean, and the timing chain components still look nice and tight (I was budgeting to replace it all, now I'm not sure it's necessary - maybe just a new chain, maybe not at all).

I had some fun playing around with the valvetronic mechanism. I was trying to see what the valve clearance is at TDC, but I think by default the intake cam is fully retarded so there's actually no lift at TDC, and I didn't have enough leverage to compress the valve. It might have to wait until I start disassembling things.

It was really tempting to just tear into it, but I need to make sure I keep things organized. All of the rockers are matched to each other and to the specific lobes on the eccentric shaft, you don't want to mix them up or the lift values will not be correct.

I'm going to have to find that youtube video of a guy in South Africa who takes apart and rebuilds his valvetronic head with his shoestring and a screwdriver, lol..
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      01-25-2016, 05:26 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
popped the valve cover last night..



aside from a bit of carbon build up higher up (where there doesn't appear to be much oil flow) it's actually pretty surprising how little wear there actually is at 258k. Most of the head is really clean, and the timing chain components still look nice and tight (I was budgeting to replace it all, now I'm not sure it's necessary - maybe just a new chain, maybe not at all).

I had some fun playing around with the valvetronic mechanism. I was trying to see what the valve clearance is at TDC, but I think by default the intake cam is fully retarded so there's actually no lift at TDC, and I didn't have enough leverage to compress the valve. It might have to wait until I start disassembling things.

It was really tempting to just tear into it, but I need to make sure I keep things organized. All of the rockers are matched to each other and to the specific lobes on the eccentric shaft, you don't want to mix them up or the lift values will not be correct.

I'm going to have to find that youtube video of a guy in South Africa who takes apart and rebuilds his valvetronic head with his shoestring and a screwdriver, lol..
I don't think I've ever heard of an N52 needing a timing chain either. Looks like the typical areas have their build up but not bad at all.
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      01-25-2016, 06:34 PM   #92
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yeah I mean, hell, it has a quarter million miles and there is hardly any wear at all.

I think following a shorter oil change interval is definitely a good idea though. I don't know if it would eliminate all of the carbon but I bet it would make a big difference.
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      01-25-2016, 09:31 PM   #93
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the powers of synthetic oil and good metallurgy
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      01-29-2016, 03:28 PM   #94
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so I'm pretty sure mechanically retarding the intake cam is feasible without causing any piston/valve interference. the reason is because as you retard it, it actually opens the valve *less* at TDC, which is when interference is most likely to happen.

In fact, at the maximum stock retard the valve isn't opened at all. You would still be able to advance it to 99.9% of the stock timing values - on the original maps, there is only 1 cell that would be affected, and it wouldn't affect the full load timing at all - you would just be able to extend it beyond 120 degrees.

There is potential it could be open later as the piston comes back on the upstroke, but I'll have to look at it and see if it's even close to being at TDC before the intake valve closes. I have a feeling it's not an issue.

Now I'm trying to figure out, do I retard the cam 10 crank degrees, or 10 cam degrees?
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      01-29-2016, 05:08 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
so I'm pretty sure mechanically retarding the intake cam is feasible without causing any piston/valve interference. the reason is because as you retard it, it actually opens the valve *less* at TDC, which is when interference is most likely to happen.

In fact, at the maximum stock retard the valve isn't opened at all. You would still be able to advance it to 99.9% of the stock timing values - on the original maps, there is only 1 cell that would be affected, and it wouldn't affect the full load timing at all - you would just be able to extend it beyond 120 degrees.

There is potential it could be open later as the piston comes back on the upstroke, but I'll have to look at it and see if it's even close to being at TDC before the intake valve closes. I have a feeling it's not an issue.

Now I'm trying to figure out, do I retard the cam 10 crank degrees, or 10 cam degrees?
anything. chomping at the bit to see the results
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      01-29-2016, 08:54 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
popped the valve cover last night..



aside from a bit of carbon build up higher up (where there doesn't appear to be much oil flow) it's actually pretty surprising how little wear there actually is at 258k. Most of the head is really clean, and the timing chain components still look nice and tight (I was budgeting to replace it all, now I'm not sure it's necessary - maybe just a new chain, maybe not at all).

I had some fun playing around with the valvetronic mechanism. I was trying to see what the valve clearance is at TDC, but I think by default the intake cam is fully retarded so there's actually no lift at TDC, and I didn't have enough leverage to compress the valve. It might have to wait until I start disassembling things.

It was really tempting to just tear into it, but I need to make sure I keep things organized. All of the rockers are matched to each other and to the specific lobes on the eccentric shaft, you don't want to mix them up or the lift values will not be correct.

I'm going to have to find that youtube video of a guy in South Africa who takes apart and rebuilds his valvetronic head with his shoestring and a screwdriver, lol..
So I just hit 295,000 on the way home tonight. After replacing the oil pan gasket last weekend I've discovered my VCG has started to leak too (just recently). I'll dig into it in a few weeks and post some valvetrain pics. My OCI average is down to about 14.5K from 17K before the oil life monitor hit it's programmed stop at 186,000 miles. I forgot to take a picture of the cam chain from the bottom end when the pan was off, but my cam drive was clean as a whistle when I peered up into the cam chain cover.

Cool that you are going to drop this engine in an E30. To me, the M20 with its solid lifters was just a beautify sounding mechanical machine. The N52 has it's own character too.
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      01-30-2016, 02:56 PM   #97
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Just for fun...



the holy grail for me, always has been and always will be, the E46 M3 CSL carbon airbox. glad I was able to pick this up super cheap (has a bit of a flaw on one corner) - it would be relatively simple to adapt to the N52, but it would probably be too long - I'm not sure it would clear my brake booster. The trumpets are pretty huge - but they taper it down to ~49mm. I had been planning 48mm trumpets. Wondering if I should go a little smaller to keep up the velocity.

One thing this does illustrate is a problem that I realized when thinking of my custom trumpets with the ITG filter setup - the oil filter housing is seriously in the way. I can make something that clears it, but then I lose brake booster clearance.. I think it's doable just a little more difficult.

Anyone know if there's a such thing as an oil filter housing relocation kit? as it is, if I make it as short as possible (which I think will be dictated more by packaging than anything else), I'll probably end up having to remove the airbox to change the oil. Not a big deal really - I could use that opportunity to clean out the filter I guess.. but I'd like to have more flexibility to have a shorter stack.
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      01-30-2016, 03:19 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Just for fun...



the holy grail for me, always has been and always will be, the E46 M3 CSL carbon airbox. glad I was able to pick this up super cheap (has a bit of a flaw on one corner) - it would be relatively simple to adapt to the N52, but it would probably be too long - I'm not sure it would clear my brake booster. The trumpets are pretty huge - but they taper it down to ~49mm. I had been planning 48mm trumpets. Wondering if I should go a little smaller to keep up the velocity.

One thing this does illustrate is a problem that I realized when thinking of my custom trumpets with the ITG filter setup - the oil filter housing is seriously in the way. I can make something that clears it, but then I lose brake booster clearance.. I think it's doable just a little more difficult.

Anyone know if there's a such thing as an oil filter housing relocation kit? as it is, if I make it as short as possible (which I think will be dictated more by packaging than anything else), I'll probably end up having to remove the airbox to change the oil. Not a big deal really - I could use that opportunity to clean out the filter I guess.. but I'd like to have more flexibility to have a shorter stack.
Yeah, remote oil filter hardware is common. Joe's Racing makes some, pretty sure there are some in the Pegasus catalog. Probably Vivid Racing as well. Universally used in most race cars out there. And rat Harleys too for that matter.
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      01-30-2016, 03:22 PM   #99
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do they fit the N52 though? it would have to be a plate machined like the backside of the stock housing.. maybe we're lucky since the N54 housing is the same? I suppose something could be machined, but it would have to be done via CNC.. not cheap.

Usually, a universal adapter replaces a standard oil filter, but we can't use those here.. I do actually much prefer the BMW style housing with the replaceable filter element. I will try to work around it first.
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      01-30-2016, 03:28 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
do they fit the N52 though? it would have to be a plate machined like the backside of the stock housing.. maybe we're lucky since the N54 housing is the same? I suppose something could be machined, but it would have to be done via CNC.. not cheap.

Usually, a universal adapter replaces a standard oil filter, but we can't use those here.. I do actually much prefer the BMW style housing with the replaceable filter element. I will try to work around it first.
I doubt it. I'm assuming some CNC work would be required to get the adapter on the engine, the remote filter mount is common. I think I've seen adapters that spin on as a filter would but couldn't tell you where I've seen them, not that it's applicable, just another example...
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      01-30-2016, 04:36 PM   #101
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yeah, it totally could be done. I want to try doing it without modifying it first, but push comes to shove, a remote filter is easier to deal with than relocating the booster or going with a manual brake setup.

In the end, I think calculating the optimum length for the trumpets is pointless - no matter what, we are limited by the available space. that basically means we'll end up with something close to the stock plenum length, but it should still be more optimized than running a cut open N54 manifold and it will be filtered properly. The only variable I really have control over is the diameter of the trumpets.
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      01-30-2016, 04:39 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
yeah, it totally could be done. I want to try doing it without modifying it first, but push comes to shove, a remote filter is easier to deal with than relocating the booster or going with a manual brake setup.

In the end, I think calculating the optimum length for the trumpets is pointless - no matter what, we are limited by the available space. that basically means we'll end up with something close to the stock plenum length, but it should still be more optimized than running a cut open N54 manifold and it will be filtered properly. The only variable I really have control over is the diameter of the trumpets.
Makes sense. Won't the trumpets be relatively short for a 8000 rpm redline?
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      01-30-2016, 04:58 PM   #103
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no if anything they will be long. pretty much the total length from the end of the bellhousing to the valve will be at least 13", but really longer since the back of the ITG filter housing has to start at the edge of the stock filter housing.

everything I've seen says they will need to be a little shorter. Maybe 48mm is the right size for that limitation, maybe not..
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      01-30-2016, 05:06 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
no if anything they will be long. pretty much the total length from the end of the bellhousing to the valve will be at least 13", but really longer since the back of the ITG filter housing has to start at the edge of the stock filter housing.

everything I've seen says they will need to be a little shorter. Maybe 48mm is the right size for that limitation, maybe not..
What do you sacrifice with too short a trumpet length?
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      01-30-2016, 05:26 PM   #105
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some mid range but I don't think it's physically possible for us to have too short a length, unless you aren't going to filter it at all - even without a filter, you want a smooth transition from round to oval ports, which limits how short you can make it.
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      01-30-2016, 05:30 PM   #106
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some mid range but I don't think it's physically possible for us to have too short a length, unless you aren't going to filter it at all - even without a filter, you want a smooth transition from round to oval ports, which limits how short you can make it.
OK, yeah, forgot about the length to taper. There's always modifying the hood. Gotta look at the CF hood frame to see if it'd be relatively easy for upturned trumpets and filter.
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      01-30-2016, 05:34 PM   #107
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yeah, the strut brace is also a potential issue. I'm pretty sure I will need a different one in the E30, unless I get lucky...
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      01-30-2016, 05:36 PM   #108
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yeah, the strut brace is also a potential issue. I'm pretty sure I will need a different one in the E30, unless I get lucky...
Forgot about that...dangit
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      02-02-2016, 12:21 PM   #109
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I had a dumb idea and will probably get gunned for this. Instead of relocating the OFH why not cut around the meat? Modify the side of the box with glass reinforced plastic and if required use a heat shield coating on it. Or better yet make a whole new one using carbon fibre or high heat resistance fibre glass/thermoset plastic. Hopefully it does not mess up the delta pressure too much.
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      02-02-2016, 02:50 PM   #110
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the trumpet is too close. it would rob airflow from cylinder #1. Min clearance needs to be about 1 1/4".

the airbox actually clears around the OFH but the trumpets would end up being longer than optimal, and I don't think the airbox would clear the booster either.
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