[Waleed Farooq]

I bought this car and changed the brakepads and the front brake discs. I realised when i brake a little hard i smell burning rubber like my brake pads burning. I also found black powder on the rims that looks like the brake pad. Is it normal or should i be worried?

[dmatre]

If this was the first time that you've used them hard, then it's completely normal. Google "brake bedding procedure".

It's not uncommon to have smoke boiling from front wheel wells during procedure.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dmatre

If this was the first time that you've used them hard, then it's completely normal. Google "brake bedding procedure".

It's not uncommon to have smoke boiling from front wheel wells during procedure.

Ah...... NO. LOL

[Efthreeoh]

Op you need to provide more information. Who did the work? What brand parts did you use? How many miles are on the car? Did you bleed the brakes? Replace the fluid? Etc.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Ah...... NO. LOL

Uh - yep.

Have been changing brakes and bedding in (stopping from increasing speeds, until they have been smoking) since the early '80s. During that time it wasn't uncommon to go through several sets of pads in a season - so it wasn't a 'once in a blue moon experience'.

Some of the newer brake pads with carbon/ceramic now advise against hard stopping in the first XXX miles, but the old semi-met pads required a high-temp bed-in period. Even the PFC Reds that I was racing on my old '86 Integra required a hard break in at progressively higher speeds, with a cool-off period between stops.

And the first time you really get on them (even after an easy bed-in), they will heat to the point where some of the pad binder and any paint on the pad back will smoke off.

So yes, it is normal to smell some of the binder and paint after the first hard stops on new pads.

from Zeckhausen:
https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6443

"The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
"

From Brake Performance:
https://brakeperformance.com/bedding-in-rotors.php
" You may notice that your brakes will start fading, and sometimes smoke, after the 6th or 7th pass. "

From StopTech:
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...-system-bed-in
"The second objective of the bedding-in process is achieved by performing another set of stops, in order to mature the pad itself. This ensures that resins which are used to bind and form the pad material are ‘cooked' out of the pad, at the point where the pad meets the rotor's friction surface."

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Uh - yep.

Umm - NO

You must do what the manufacturer states. Some specifically tell you DO NOT OVER HEAT pads in the first 500 miles.

Some brake manufacturers pre-cook the pads before shipping them but they still need slow compression of braking to solidify them.... semi metalics.

So telling someone to cook their brake pads without know exactly what brand and type they are is careless and ignorant.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Umm - NO

You must do what the manufacturer states. Some specifically tell you DO NOT OVER HEAT pads in the first 500 miles.

Some brake manufacturers pre-cook the pads before shipping them but they still need slow compression of braking to solidify them.

The OP:
1) did not state which brand of brakes he installed (no manufacturer, thus no recommendations)
2) did not state how he broke them in or how many miles he has on them now
3) did ask if it was normal to smell something after a hard stop (it is)

So I have provided 3 references from 3 reputable brake suppliers. You have provided your opinion.

The OP can decide for himself who to believe.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by dmatre

The OP:
1) did not state which brand of brakes he installed (no manufacturer, thus no recommendations)
2) did not state how he broke them in or how many miles he has on them now
3) did ask if it was normal to smell something after a hard stop (it is)

So I have provided 3 references from 3 reputable brake suppliers. You have provided your opinion.

The OP can decide for himself who to believe.

We get it. But making statements like “it’s ok that your pads are smoking” with an insinuation (what you did) toward street pads on this make/model is slightly alarming.

While what you said is not technically wrong, it should be taken with a word of caution.

Consider your audience is all we’re saying. Most people in the bland e90 forum are not SCCA’ing

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by dmatre

The OP:
1) did not state which brand of brakes he installed (no manufacturer, thus no recommendations)
2) did not state how he broke them in or how many miles he has on them now
3) did ask if it was normal to smell something after a hard stop (it is)

So I have provided 3 references from 3 reputable brake suppliers. You have provided your opinion.

The OP can decide for himself who to believe.

Wow... are you still in grade school?

And if he used certain types Bosch pads you just told him how to screw them up royally.



I've got over 255,000 miles on my E91. Wife has over 100,000 on her E90 and I do all the work on them. I've been turning wrenches on vehicles from the 70's.

Grow the 7734 up. If the poster didn't provide you the proper information then ask for it instead of misleading the poster down a path that can cause DAMAGE TO THEIR CAR!!!!

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Wow... are you still in grade school?

And if he used certain types Bosch pads you just told him how to screw them up royally.



I've got over 255,000 miles on my E91. Wife has over 100,000 on her E90 and I do all the work on them. I've been turning wrenches on vehicles from the 70's.

Grow the 7734 up. If the poster didn't provide you the proper information then ask for it instead of misleading the poster down a path that can cause DAMAGE TO THEIR CAR!!!!

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath & go back over what I said.

I told the OP it was normal to have a smell/smoke after the first hard stops, and cited three outside references which say the same thing.

I did NOT recommend a specific bed-in procedure, nor anything that could damage his car. In fact, since the OP has already installed the brakes and made a hard stop where he smelled brakes, he's past the bed-in process and is simply asking a question.

Unfortunately, on the internet there are plenty of people who rush to condemn others only to boost themselves up, failing to read or understand what has been written in the thread previously.

Please show:
1) where I made a recommendation to the OP
2) your sources showing that any information that I posted is false/untrue

Interesting note: There are 2 threads in the DIY subforum about replacing brakes:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=brake
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=brake

These threads refer to Zeckhausen and StopTech for bed-in procedures, both of which mention smoke/smell upon hard stopping.
Just sayin'.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath & go back over what I said.

I told the OP it was normal to have a smell/smoke after the first hard stops, and cited three outside references which say the same thing.

I did NOT recommend a specific bed-in procedure, nor anything that could damage his car. In fact, since the OP has already installed the brakes and made a hard stop where he smelled brakes, he's past the bed-in process and is simply asking a question.

Unfortunately, on the internet there are plenty of people who rush to condemn others only to boost themselves up, failing to read or understand what has been written in the thread previously.

Please show:
1) where I made a recommendation to the OP
2) your sources showing that any information that I posted is false/untrue

Interesting note: There are 2 threads in the DIY subforum about replacing brakes:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=brake
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=brake

These threads refer to Zeckhausen and StopTech for bed-in procedures, both of which mention smoke/smell upon hard stopping.
Just sayin'.

I totally agree with you. If you brake hard with new brake pads you can notice a distinct smell. And it might even be you braking hard because of an emergency situation. The bedding is yes and no depending on the make of the pads. So nothing to add there. But pads smell when heated, for whatever reason. Even used pads can smell if used very hard. That is well known.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath & go back over what I said.

I told the OP it was normal to have a smell/smoke after the first hard stops, and cited three outside references which say the same thing.

I did NOT recommend a specific bed-in procedure, nor anything that could damage his car. In fact, since the OP has already installed the brakes and made a hard stop where he smelled brakes, he's past the bed-in process and is simply asking a question.

Unfortunately, on the internet there are plenty of people who rush to condemn others only to boost themselves up, failing to read or understand what has been written in the thread previously.

Please show:
1) where I made a recommendation to the OP
2) your sources showing that any information that I posted is false/untrue

Interesting note: There are 2 threads in the DIY subforum about replacing brakes:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=brake
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...ighlight=brake

These threads refer to Zeckhausen and StopTech for bed-in procedures, both of which mention smoke/smell upon hard stopping.
Just sayin'.

umm... talk about reading?

You want to take bets on whether they have those brands in the United Arab Emirates for a 320i?

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

umm... talk about reading?

You want to take bets on whether they have those brands in the United Arab Emirates for a 320i?

Let me make it simple for you, as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point:

OP asked "should he be worried" because he smelled the brakes during the first hard stops on new pads/rotors.

I said no, that it is normal for brakes to smell/smoke when first used hard, and provided three references that concur.

You disagree, however have not provided any references to support your position. Then you claim that I made dangerous recommendations, and now you claim that the brand of brakes makes a difference.

This whole discussion has nothing to do with the brand of brake pads/rotors used, or the location where the car resides. It has to do with how brake pads are manufactured and what happens to them when they reach higher temperatures. Period.

But, as Amazon/FedEx/DHL/UPS deliver world-wide, it is quite likely that they have brands of brakes in UAE that are available in USA. So yes, I'll take your bet whenever you're ready.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Uh - yep.

Have been changing brakes and bedding in (stopping from increasing speeds, until they have been smoking) since the early '80s. During that time it wasn't uncommon to go through several sets of pads in a season - so it wasn't a 'once in a blue moon experience'.

Some of the newer brake pads with carbon/ceramic now advise against hard stopping in the first XXX miles, but the old semi-met pads required a high-temp bed-in period. Even the PFC Reds that I was racing on my old '86 Integra required a hard break in at progressively higher speeds, with a cool-off period between stops.

And the first time you really get on them (even after an easy bed-in), they will heat to the point where some of the pad binder and any paint on the pad back will smoke off.

So yes, it is normal to smell some of the binder and paint after the first hard stops on new pads.

from Zeckhausen:
https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6443

"The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
"

From Brake Performance:
https://brakeperformance.com/bedding-in-rotors.php
" You may notice that your brakes will start fading, and sometimes smoke, after the 6th or 7th pass. "

From StopTech:
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...-system-bed-in
"The second objective of the bedding-in process is achieved by performing another set of stops, in order to mature the pad itself. This ensures that resins which are used to bind and form the pad material are ‘cooked' out of the pad, at the point where the pad meets the rotor's friction surface."

Seriously? You're talking about race compound pads and I'll assume equivalent rotors? If you install BMW OE pads, the set comes with a hang tag for the rearview mirror which specifically states the bedding process is to avoid "violent" braking for the first 125 miles (i.e. don't overheat the new brake hardware). Considering the OP mentioned brake dust and burning smell, he may have used OE/OEM German TUV-spec street pads (dusting) a sticking caliper, which is why I suggested he provide additional information so us experts could chime in with better answers.

BTW I have 350,000 miles on my E90 and have replaced brakes using OE parts 3 times since the factory brakes were consumed at around 75K. I get to drive some excellent back roads here in central Virginia and many times put my car away wet with the thing smelling like it is going to catch on fire, especially after some very hard street driving and fading brakes. Never have I smoked the pads on my E90 at that illegal level of street driving.

Now there was a time, on a rental 1990's T-Bird I smoked the brakes out in Napa Valley heading back to San Fran, but that's a story for a different Forum...

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Let me make it simple for you, as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point:

OP asked "should he be worried" because he smelled the brakes during the first hard stops on new pads/rotors.

I said no, that it is normal for brakes to smell/smoke when first used hard, and provided three references that concur.

You disagree, however have not provided any references to support your position. Then you claim that I made dangerous recommendations, and now you claim that the brand of brakes makes a difference.

This whole discussion has nothing to do with the brand of brake pads/rotors used, or the location where the car resides. It has to do with how brake pads are manufactured and what happens to them when they reach higher temperatures. Period.

But, as Amazon/FedEx/DHL/UPS deliver world-wide, it is quite likely that they have brands of brakes in UAE that are available in USA. So yes, I'll take your bet whenever you're ready.

I stated to read the manual for the specific pads that were installed and find out what the manufacturer stated to do.... NOT give him examples of what you think was going on. Your method is short sighted, ignorant and reasons why people end up with screwed up cars.

And further more... here in the USA on my BMW's I have never had smoke pouring out of the wheels and loads of "dust" on my rims or any type of smell after installing brake pads. Hell, I haven't even had that happen on my 68' Camaro or my 88 K2500. Guess that is what I get by using quality parts instead of crap like Stoptech.

You are jumping to the conclusion that everything is alright just because YOU think it is and not giving the OP sound mechanical advice. Get a clue before you cost someone a hell of a lot more than just damaging their car with your so called "knowledge".

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Seriously? You're talking about race compound pads and I'll assume equivalent rotors? If you install BMW OE pads, the set comes with a hang tag for the rearview mirror which specifically states the bedding process is to avoid hard braking until past 500 miles (i.e. don't overheat the new brake hardware). Considering the OP mentioned brake dust and burning smell, he may have used OE/OEM German TUV-spec street pads (dusting) a sticking caliper, which is why I suggested he provide additional information so us experts could chime in with better answers.

Agreed. However, a sticking caliper would result in dusting/smell under continuous driving conditions, rather than only after a hard stop.

And you also miss the fact that I did not recommend a bed-in method, only cited references where it is noted that during the bed-in process smoke/smell may be observed.

For some reason, my answer to the OP that smelling new brakes after a hard stop is normal seems to have touched a nerve here - whereas this is relatively common knowledge for anyone who has ever changed brake pads and followed (whatever) bed-in recommendations came with the pads.

Even if you bed them in lightly for the first XXX miles, they are still going to off-gas and burn the paint off the first time you get them hot.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

I stated to read the manual for the specific pads that were installed and find out what the manufacturer stated to do.... NOT give him examples of what you think was going on. Your method is short sighted, ignorant and reasons why people end up with screwed up cars.

And further more... here in the USA on my BMW's I have never had smoke pouring out of the wheels and loads of "dust" on my rims or any type of smell after installing brake pads. Hell, I haven't even had that happen on my 68' Camaro or my 88 K2500. Guess that is what I get by using quality parts instead of crap like Stoptech.

You are jumping to the conclusion that everything is alright just because YOU think it is and not giving the OP sound mechanical advice. Get a clue before you cost someone a hell of a lot more than just damaging their car with your so called "knowledge".

More opinion, no references. I see. "Crap like StopTech?" Really?

Again, the OP has already installed the pads and run them in. Too late to read the manual (and you are ASSUMING that he didn't).

And what do you refer to when you say "your method is short sighted, ignorant...."? What method have I recommended? You still have problems to understand the nature of this thread.

But regardless of that, for the record: What is your 'sound mechanical advice' to the OP, given that his question was regarding the smell?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dmatre

Agreed. However, a sticking caliper would result in dusting/smell under continuous driving conditions, rather than only after a hard stop.

And you also miss the fact that I did not recommend a bed-in method, only cited references where it is noted that during the bed-in process smoke/smell may be observed.

For some reason, my answer to the OP that smelling new brakes after a hard stop is normal seems to have touched a nerve here - whereas this is relatively common knowledge for anyone who has ever changed brake pads and followed (whatever) bed-in recommendations came with the pads.

Even if you bed them in lightly for the first XXX miles, they are still going to off-gas and burn the paint off the first time you get them hot.

I added some more to my post, but to summarize, if the OP sourced quality brake parts for street use, then expecting to seem billowing smoke from the brakes after a hard stop (on the street) in an E90 is highly unlikely. I highly doubt any quality (and especially OE) pads would smoke even after an emergency stop (say from 70 MPH at full antilock) as their first use post installation. Smell a bit? Yes. Smoke? Nope.

[dmatre]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I added some more to my post, but to summarize, if the OP sourced quality brake parts for street use, then expecting to seem billowing smoke from the brakes after a hard stop (on the street) in an E90 is highly unlikely. I highly doubt any quality (and especially OE) pads would smoke even after an emergency stop (say from 70 MPH at full antilock) as their first use post installation. Smell a bit? Yes. Smoke? Nope.

OK - now I see the problem. The OP reported smell, and I referred to past Bed-In processes where I had smoke billowing from the wheel wells (yes, true). But this was only to let him know that at the extreme end of the spectrum you can have a significant amount of smoke, on the less extreme you can have only smell. Of course, if you never get them hot you'll never smell them.

In the materials referenced by three major, respected brake suppliers, they mention smoke/smell. So I don't think that I'm too far removed from reality.

I never recommended (or implied) to 'brake until they smoke'. I've re-read my post several times, and still don't see how expressing my past experience has been interpreted as a recommendation. This was never my intention.

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by dmatre

More opinion, no references. I see. "Crap like StopTech?" Really?

Again, the OP has already installed the pads and run them in. Too late to read the manual (and you are ASSUMING that he didn't).

And what do you refer to when you say "your method is short sighted, ignorant...."? What method have I recommended? You still have problems to understand the nature of this thread.

But regardless of that, for the record: What is your 'sound mechanical advice' to the OP, given that his question was regarding the smell?

No, it's not to late to stop and read the manual to make sure someone hasn't done something that is going to go catastrophically wrong.

Yes, your method of jumping to YOUR conclusion based on YOUR anecdotal experience is VERY WRONG. You didn't even ask any questions... you automatically jumped on to "brake bedding".

My advice to the OP. Go back and read the manufacturer specs and procedures. Make sure that the parts he put on the car are the ones for the car. Pull the front wheels and make examine the brake system. Look for issues with the brake lines, calipers, excess material on pads and rotors, grease or other petrochemicals, etc. If he has questions or concerns, take it to a reputable shop to check the car out.

[Socket]

Originally Posted by Waleed Farooq

I bought this car and changed the brakepads and the front brake discs. I realised when i brake a little hard i smell burning rubber like my brake pads burning. I also found black powder on the rims that looks like the brake pad. Is it normal or should i be worried?

Normal

[IN54NITY]

Not enough information given by OP to make judgment either way., but I'm mostly with dmatre. "A little hard" braking is too subjective. OP, please provide speeds, and make of the brake pads.. i.e. 65 to 10 mph at just before threshold.... 45 to 5 at threshold... (ABS about to fire...should feel pedal starting to pulse). AND the number of times you braked. Most importantly, does it continue to smoke? Black powder on rims is brake pad dust and completely normal.