[neocleous]

I have a pair of Moral Hybrid Ovations on the way but tuning skills leave allot to be desired so I thought it best to ask the experts.

My complete system will be as follows;

Morel Hybrid Ovation front speakers

Earthquake SWS-8 woofers under the seats

Genesis Profile 2 Ultra to run the Earthquake subs
Power Levels [2 Ohms] - 2 x 225W
Power Levels [4 Ohms] - 2 x 150W
Bridge - 1 x 450W
THD - <0.1%
Signal to Noise Ratio - 100dB 'A' Wtd
Input Sensitivity [Volts RMS] - 0.3 ~ 4 Volts
Current Draw @ 4 Ohms - 31 Amps
Fuse Rating - 40 Amp
Crossovers HP [All Continuous] - CH 1 & 2 - 30 - 6000 Hz
Crossovers LP [/- Module] - CH 1 & 2 - 60 - 6000 Hz
Dimensions H x W x D [mm]* - 38 x 300 x 217
Weight [Kg] - 2.0

Genesis Profile 4 Ultra for the Morel fronts
Power Levels [2 Ohms] - 1 x 150W
Power Levels [4 Ohms] - 1 x 100W
Bridge - 2 x 300W
THD - <0.1%
Signal to Noise Ratio - 100dB 'A' Wtd
Input Sensitivity [Volts RMS] - 0.3 ~ 4 Volts
Current Draw @ 4 Ohms - 45 Amps
Fuse Rating - 40 Amp
Crossovers HP [All Continuous] - CH 1 & 2 - 30 - 6000 Hz
Crossovers HP [All Continuous] - CH 3 & 4 - 20 - 200 Hz
Crossovers LP [/- Module] - CH 3 & 4 - 60 - 6000 HZ
Dimensions H x W x D [mm]* - 38 x 450 x 217
Weight [Kg] - 3.0

I won't be running the passive crossovers that come with the Morel speakers I will be using the built in crossover in the amps as I have enough channels to do so.

So what crossover points should I use on my amps?

Thanks

[Atorsesh]

Non.

The crossovers that came with the speakers are designed for the speakers. You will either a) destroy the speakers eventually or b) not get all the sound the speakers can possibly be getting, if you use the amp crossover.

Run the amps flat and let the crossovers the speakers came with handle it.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by liliceman13300

Non.

The crossovers that came with the speakers are designed for the speakers. You will either a) destroy the speakers eventually or b) not get all the sound the speakers can possibly be getting, if you use the amp crossover.

Run the amps flat and let the crossovers the speakers came with handle it.

X2!

[VP Electricity]

I fear that neither of the prior posters understood what you are asking. Regardless, I disagree strongly with their posts (unless your post history suggests that you will mess this up and blow some perfectly nice speakers - that's always a possibility, I guess...)

Using active crossovers is of course an option. Where did you buy the speakers? What is their suggestion?

The Morel website says now that the HO XO HP point is 1800. It used to say 2200. I would not go below 1800, and I personally, in our car, would try 2500 or 3000 (the tweeter can play lower, but with the 4" mid so high, it doesn't have to).

The bottom end of the 4" HP I would not put below 200. The top of the 8" LP I would stop around 150 and "gap" it.

That said, you have a LOT of tuning in front of you to get these relative levels right Builds character.

[neocleous]

Thanks for that VP Electricity I haven't (touch wood) blown any speakers so I do want to give this a go and ditch the passive crossovers.

When you say "gap" it do you mean leave a 50Hz hole between the 8" and the 4"?

Tuning sends a shiver down my spine I guess I have a lot of character to build haha.

Also is it worth getting a digital crossover like the Audio Control 6XS or is that over kill?

[kaigoss69]

I guess the DIY spirit is still alive in you, Ken! But just because you are the "expert" doesn't mean that other posters don't know what they are talking about. I have personally tried what the OP is attempting to do on two different occasions. Both failed miserably. It sounded like ass, frankly. The problem is that I, like the OP, am not an expert tuner. So when you bypass the passive x-over, you are starting in the basement and only "tuning" can get you to the penthouse. However, proper tuning (as I know now) requires more than just the ability to adjust levels and crossover points. It requires a) the right toolbox, i.e. a DSP, and b) a trained ear, none of which seem to be at the OP's disposal. Therefore, I am saying "don't do it", it will sound like ass.

Oh, and some expert advice from the amateur, in case you do go ahead with the active set-up: Get a couple of capacitors and hook them up in-line with the tweeter speaker wires. This will protect the tweeters from accidental low-frequency bursts, such as amp turn on/off thumps. The exact capacitance will depend on your tweeter's resistance, and their FS.

[kaigoss69]

This is how you should wire the capacitor:



And this is where you calculate the capacitance:

http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/crosscalc.asp#cc

The rule of thumb for "safe" high-pass frequency for a tweeter is double the FS. You will probably want to go higher, as Ken suggested. But for the protection capacitor, I would go an octave above the tweeter's FS.

[neocleous]

Thanks for the tips guys. My amp manufacture actually suggested adding a one amp fuse in line with the tweeters to protect them so no reason I couldn't do both I guess.

I quite like fiddling with settings and trying new set ups. I know this is a little risky in terms of damaging equipment but no guts no glory haha.

And as for my lack of experience in tuning there is only one way to get that and if its all going horribly wrong I will start a new thread asking for more help lol.

[VP Electricity]

Kai, I actually gave someone free help who wasn't our customer, and you still give me grief

Kai, you agreed with this post:

You will either a) destroy the speakers eventually or b) not get all the sound the speakers can possibly be getting, if you use the amp crossover.

Perhaps you meant to agree with the conclusion, but not with the reasoning? TI disagree with that statement. Other rationales have their own merits, but that statement is just wrong, I'm afraid.

I like your second post, which I suspect was more helpful to the OP: "I tried this, it was a pain in the neck, never was happy with it, you will spend a lot of time".

The series caps are a great idea. OTTOMH, 4.7uF will block DC and not mess up the filter slopes.

You may very well find out that it's hard to use input gains as output level controls...

[neocleous]

Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

None of the amps I am using have an RMS power above the RMS ratings of the speakers so unless I am very careless I don't think ill blow anything and any little electronic tricks like an in line fuse and capacitor are all welcome.

Should I set the EQ on my HU flat and purely use the amp or should I do the fine control on the HU?

[kmarei]

another small note
if you are not using the crossovers that came with the speakers
and you do manage to blow any of them, which seems likely since you already stated you are not a pro at tuning. the warranty will be void.

[neocleous]

I am loving the positivity in this thread haha. Joking aside though I do appreciate the warnings

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by neocleous

I am loving the positivity in this thread haha. Joking aside though I do appreciate the warnings

we're only looking out for you
this is what happened to the last guy who tried to bypass his crossovers

[neocleous]

WOW! nothing I can say to that really I hope he wasn't in the car!

[naamanf]

The biggest problem I see is you will want to band-pass the mid-range driver and it doesn't look like that's possible with your amps. Unless you can have both the high pass and low pass active at the same time.

Second I don't see any reason to put a cap on the tweeter. Why ditch the passive crossover in favor of an active one and then put a passive component back in the signal path? Just double(triple) check the setup and start with the gains at a minimum and work from there. Putting a cap in series to block DC (4.7uf would be good for blocking dc offset from a DAC chip) also doesn't make a lot on sense because unless it's the cheapest swamp meet amp it shouldn't have any.

My suggestion would be to invest in a processor of some sort. That way you will have a lot more flexibility and tuning options. Also some sort of RTA setup would be very very helpful. Setting up a computer based one isn't that difficult and won't break the bank.

[VP Electricity]

Pretty sure the Genesis allows bandpass if you source that resistor module. But I may be wrong.

As far as your dissing the series cap, the damage a series cap does to the signal is almost nonexistent. If you have an amp failure, do you really want to buy new tweeters too, just because you didn't want to pony up the cost of two 4.7 caps? Something as basic as plugging in the RCA with the system on could be a problem. Why take the risk?

[naamanf]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Pretty sure the Genesis allows bandpass if you source that resistor module. But I may be wrong.

As far as your dissing the series cap, the damage a series cap does to the signal is almost nonexistent. If you have an amp failure, do you really want to buy new tweeters too, just because you didn't want to pony up the cost of two 4.7 caps? Something as basic as plugging in the RCA with the system on could be a problem. Why take the risk?

You would need one on every speaker not just the tweeter if DC offset is the fear. All the voice coils would turn into nice little heaters with enough voltage fed to them.

How many fully active systems have you installed where you put a cap on every(or any for that matter) speaker in fear of the amp going bad?

Also switch to pro type RCAs, it will fix any problems you have with swapping cables with they system on.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by naamanf

You would need one on every speaker not just the tweeter if DC offset is the fear. All the voice coils would turn into nice little heaters with enough voltage fed to them.

How many fully active systems have you installed where you put a cap on every(or any for that matter) speaker in fear of the amp going bad?

Also switch to pro type RCAs, it will fix any problems you have with swapping cables with they system on.

I'm afraid that tweeter voice coils are the ones most susceptible to damage.

Most of them.

I didn't ask you for advice, silly, I provided advice to the OP. Not sure why you don't like the advice, but that's OK. We'll both live.

[naamanf]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I'm afraid that tweeter voice coils are the ones most susceptible to damage.

Most of them.

I didn't ask you for advice, silly, I provided advice to the OP. Not sure why you don't like the advice, but that's OK. We'll both live.

Mine was also advice for the OP, partly saying yours and the others suggesting a series cap was pretty silly.

It's pretty obvious why I don't like it. A) your adding passive components when the whole point was to eliminate them B) DC offset isn't a concern for any modern amp. Bet you can't name one amp you sell that doesn't have either offset protection or a DC servo on the output. C) the correct cap isn't even close to 4.7uf. Again that would work for blocking the DC offset of say a opamp or current DAC chip going into the high impedance input of an amplifier, but into a 4ohm load of a speaker not so much. D) sure the tweeter voice coils are more susceptible to damage from DC but if it's enough to burn them I'm sure it would be enough to cook through those of a mid as well. 100w into a tweeter is a 100w into a mid.

Again, how many caps have you used in a active system to block DC?

[neocleous]

I finally have everything installed in my car and I have got to the tuning stage.

The tweeters came with a pair of 4.7uF capacitors so I fitted them to the positive speaker terminal along with a 1amp fuse as per the amp manufacturers recommendation.

I will let you all know how the tuning goes.

[Moonesar]

How do you like the earthquake under the seats? Hit hard? I am thinking about adding to my MTX' 12's in the trunk

[neocleous]

I'm really pleased with them, they really do hit hard especially for such shallow woofers. I'm not sure how they would sound though if you already have a 12" sub