[Noir]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

We'll have to see. I'm planning to drive to BPC for a dyno tune on the my car with a 3 stage/BBTB and the MILVS - and see if they let me test that intake as well.

what do you think it would do with all those you listed plus the ess kit?

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

We'll have to see. I'm planning to drive to BPC for a dyno tune on the my car with a 3 stage/BBTB and the MILVS - and see if they let me test that intake as well.

That would be great, having back to back tests on a car with MILV’s and full intake and full exhaust to support the N54 manifold in doing its thing.

[Phyrexia]

Taskmaster So how many Chrome tabs didja have goin at once there? Thanks for putting it all together for us.

[pinoye90]

With all these experiments can a n52 just run individual throttle bodies for the best power?
Like the pic

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by pinoye90

With all these experiments can a n52 just run individual throttle bodies for the best power?
Like the pic

I read that the throttle body is simply a safety mechanism on the N52. It is closed by the DME when it senses a runaway throttle. In normal use it’s always wide open and does nothing so I doubt ITB would do anything.

[Torgus]

Ok know this is not apples to apples but it shows what cams and a free flowing inlet can do for an NA engine. Stock the VQ motor is meh I've owned a few of them in years past. I've also spent way to much to try and make powah.

https://www.onpointdyno.com/making-p...dyno-timeline/

Congrats to @taskmaster putting all the info together.

It will be fun to see how the NA e90 engines evolves over time.

I will again say if you want a great NA motor this is not the one given what is offered for the platform. The s65 or n54 will get you more performance for less $. The s65 is the way to go for NA, but even potentially FI given your goals.

Edit: itbs would be awesome but I doubt there is any way to manufacture them and make a profit. Again being the other platform options availible.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I read that the throttle body is simply a safety mechanism on the N52. It is closed by the DME when it senses a runaway throttle. In normal use it’s always wide open and does nothing so I doubt ITB would do anything.

The car will run with the entire manifold and TB removed, the Valvetronic system is the throttle. You could put velocity stacks directly on the head and tune for best power but there'd be no safety backup if the Valvetronic system failed. ITBs with stacks would solve that problem but then so would ITBs with a CSL airbox so a MAF could be used making it possible to run with headers.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Ok know this is not apples to apples but it shows what cams and a free flowing inlet can do for an NA engine. Stock the VQ motor is meh I've owned a few of them in years past. I've also spent way to much to try and make powah.

https://www.onpointdyno.com/making-p...dyno-timeline/

Congrats to @taskmaster putting all the info together.

It will be fun to see how the NA e90 engines evolves over time.

I will again say if you want a great NA motor this is not the one given what is offered for the platform. The s65 or n54 will get you more performance for less $. The s65 is the way to go for NA, but even potentially FI given your goals.

Edit: itbs would be awesome but I doubt there is any way to manufacture them and make a profit. Again being the other platform options availible.

I think getting to 100hp/L is a huge win, these cars are getting very close to dyno’ing at 260whp (~300bhp) which would be right at the 100bhp/L threshold. I’m pretty confident we will see a 260whp dyno on N/A from someone on this forum by the end of the year, and maybe by the end of this Month lol

300bhp in a 3200-3400lb car is plenty for a daily driver, especially one that is very reliable, doesn’t have the M tax, and no turbo issues. I think most here on the N/A forum would be quite happy with that result. We didn’t buy these cars for extreme power to begin with, the handling is the selling point. The power is a bonus.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by justpete

The car will run with the entire manifold and TB removed, the Valvetronic system is the throttle. You could put velocity stacks directly on the head and tune for best power but there'd be no safety backup if the Valvetronic system failed. ITBs with stacks would solve that problem but then so would ITBs with a CSL airbox so a MAF could be used making it possible to run with headers.

Pete gets it.

The only reason to run ITBs is to be able to run stacks and have a safety backup. Also I've already mocked it up and S54 throttles could fit - but they might be too big.

[pinoye90]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I read that the throttle body is simply a safety mechanism on the N52. It is closed by the DME when it senses a runaway throttle. In normal use it's always wide open and does nothing so I doubt ITB would do anything.

Originally Posted by justpete

The car will run with the entire manifold and TB removed, the Valvetronic system is the throttle. You could put velocity stacks directly on the head and tune for best power but there'd be no safety backup if the Valvetronic system failed. ITBs with stacks would solve that problem but then so would ITBs with a CSL airbox so a MAF could be used making it possible to run with headers.

I found this 1 year ago that's why I was asking

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Pete gets it.

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

The only reason to run ITBs is to be able to run stacks and have a safety backup. Also I've already mocked it up and S54 throttles could fit - but they might be too big.

Too big how? Can they clear the OFH?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by pinoye90

I found this 1 year ago that's why I was asking

Yeah, remoted oil filter, that's what I'd do.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Phyrexia

Taskmaster So how many Chrome tabs didja have goin at once there? Thanks for putting it all together for us.

Like 5-7 I think. Some were for work, which I have to get back to.

Originally Posted by Torgus

Ok know this is not apples to apples but it shows what cams and a free flowing inlet can do for an NA engine. Stock the VQ motor is meh I've owned a few of them in years past. I've also spent way to much to try and make powah.

https://www.onpointdyno.com/making-p...dyno-timeline/

Congrats to @taskmaster putting all the info together.

It will be fun to see how the NA e90 engines evolves over time.

I will again say if you want a great NA motor this is not the one given what is offered for the platform. The s65 or n54 will get you more performance for less $. The s65 is the way to go for NA, but even potentially FI given your goals.

Edit: itbs would be awesome but I doubt there is any way to manufacture them and make a profit. Again being the other platform options availible.

I was following Sasha's build for a while - he's the one who really uncorked the VQ - people were throwing cash at cams and headwork, and stupid intake manifolds (Cosworth) and it had nothing to show for it.

Here comes Sasha with a set of REAL long tubes, not that Shorty header with kinda long runners. Then he tested cams - and finally, the source of all the VQ woes - the intake manifold. His findings really helped me understand the whole physics of the motor better. Too bad My350Z is all but dead now.

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Pete gets it.

The only reason to run ITBs is to be able to run stacks and have a safety backup. Also I've already mocked it up and S54 throttles could fit - but they might be too big.

I would love something like this - But I'm going for cheap (within reason) and available options.

Originally Posted by pinoye90

I found this 1 year ago that's why I was asking

No valvetronic - and a custom oil system. Baller as hell - RMP's car...any details?

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

I was following Sasha's build for a while - he's the one who really uncorked the VQ - people were throwing cash at cams and headwork, and stupid intake manifolds (Cosworth) and it had nothing to show for it.

Here comes Sasha with a set of REAL long tubes, not that Shorty header with kinda long runners. Then he tested cams - and finally, the source of all the VQ woes - the intake manifold. His findings really helped me understand the whole physics of the motor better. Too bad My350Z is all but dead now.

This is exactly where the N52 is now. People keep doing the same intake/exhaust crap which does nothing. Headers are decent at least (thanks to Supersprint and all the *ahem*, copies), but you're never getting around the stock manifold being tuned for a specific RPM and powerband.

The M20B25 is ancient - and people were doing the same crap for years, always with the same stock manifold (or the shitty ITBs that were available). Then RHD comes out with an optimised design and suddenly internally stock M20s are putting out more power than S52s..

As far as the S65 - well, M cars are always cool, but its fucking heavy as hell, gets extremely poor fuel economy, and its not exactly reliable or cheap to maintain. There's obviously a tradeoff for the extra 100hp.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

This is exactly where the N52 is now. People keep doing the same intake/exhaust crap which does nothing. Headers are decent at least (thanks to Supersprint and all the *ahem*, copies), but you're never getting around the stock manifold being tuned for a specific RPM and powerband.

The M20B25 is ancient - and people were doing the same crap for years, always with the same stock manifold (or the shitty ITBs that were available). Then RHD comes out with an optimised design and suddenly internally stock M20s are putting out more power than S52s..

As far as the S65 - well, M cars are always cool, but its fucking heavy as hell, gets extremely poor fuel economy, and its not exactly reliable or cheap to maintain. There's obviously a tradeoff for the extra 100hp.

We're well on our way to an improved N52 head, finally.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

This is exactly where the N52 is now. People keep doing the same intake/exhaust crap which does nothing. Headers are decent at least (thanks to Supersprint and all the *ahem*, copies), but you're never getting around the stock manifold being tuned for a specific RPM and powerband.

As far as the S65 - well, M cars are always cool, but its fucking heavy as hell, gets extremely poor fuel economy, and its not exactly reliable or cheap to maintain. There's obviously a tradeoff for the extra 100hp.

Check your email!

For eveyone else - My best run

6 speed -
AFE Stage 2 SI
3 Stage Intake manifold
AA Headers
Super Sprint Mid Section
BMW Performance Exhaust
BPC AFLA N Tune
2 gallons of E85

Vs

BPC N54? 3Stage with DISA turned off? tune with unknown mods

[Taskmaster]

Whelp this is crazy

6 speed -
AFE Stage 2 SI
3 Stage Intake manifold
AA Headers
Super Sprint Mid Section
BMW Performance Exhaust
BPC AFLA N Tune
2 gallons of E85

Vs

BPC N54 tune with unknown mods (I used a more 'conventional N54 manifold dyno graph)

You can see it gives up big torque - but past 5500 - they are neck in neck until the N54 just walks away from the 3 stage.

The last graph is vs my stock Dyno - you can see the N54 manifold gives up nothing to a stock car.

[CobraMarty]

Does the N54 manifold locate the TB in the same location as the N52 single and 3IM?

Will the intake tubes work without modifications?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

Does the N54 manifold locate the TB in the same location as the N52 single and 3IM?

Will the intake tubes work without modifications?

Points down, you'll likely need to mock something up.

[CobraMarty]

There is this intake for the N54 that would work-

[CobraMarty]

Just for reference, ported N54 head-

[Phyrexia]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

There is this intake for the N54 that would work-

Wouldn't that still need some fabbing?