E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > DPF Delete



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-20-2013, 09:20 AM   #89
Hoooper
Colonel
213
Rep
2,210
Posts

Drives: 335D
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Petaluma, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
Apparently X5 35d has a slightly different design, according to the shop foreman at the dealership where I took my in.
yeah, in this case more is actually "better" for now, they have two EGRs, one of which taps after the DPF so is more soot-free

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
Emission standards will only get stricter as time passes. The manufacturers will have to come up with more restricting technology, which will also be more complex in nature and more prone to failures.
The more things you attach to the engine, the higher the risk for a failure.
emissions will get stricter and soloutions more complex, thats pretty likely, but modern gas engines really dont have more things attached to them than early emissions cars. In most cases they have less since they dont have an EGR, dont have a smog pump, dont have any of the strange early fixes really. They manage emissions with computer controls and catalytic converters. Im not going to count electronics, DOHC, VANOS (and similar) or other items like that as DOHC first was used in 1912 and vanos was introduced in 1992 (other variable cam timing schemes were in use in cars as early as 1980) and electronics were arguably introduced for a whole selection of reasons including but definitely not limited to emissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Unfortunately, the indication from this measurement is that the EGR is not coded out, and is still operating as it was stock. However, because the throttle valve is fully open all the time, there will still be less exhaust fumes going back into the engine due to less suction caused by having the throttle partially closed (previously the throttle would close some to help increase EGR flow when EGR % was increased).

This is a little disappointing since I was told it would be coded out. Still waiting for Stan to respond to these latest measurements of the EGR behavior.
not a good sign, hope you get that worked out. Coding EGR out/down would be the biggest reason for me to go this route, and im sure im not alone.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 09:34 AM   #90
dixy2k
Major
87
Rep
1,152
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Hooper
I agree with what you said about gasoline cars, however they don't put out soot like diesels do. Also, the emissions are different on diesel than gasoline cars. EPA does not look at them in the same way.
Diesels have always been subjected to more emission standards than gasoline cars.

Remember the brief period when no diesel cars were sold in US back in the 90's?
Mercedes discontinued diesels starting with MY2000 till... (I can't remember exactly) maybe 2004-2005. Couldn't meet pollution requirements.

CARB states are the worst in this regard.
While different brand diesel were sold in the rest of the country, CA and a few other states did not get them.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 10:16 AM   #91
floydarogers
Curmudgeon and Pedant
floydarogers's Avatar
United_States
690
Rep
3,489
Posts

Drives: 2010 335d, 2014 328d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bellevue, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
...Diesels have always been subjected to more emission standards than gasoline cars.

Remember the brief period when no diesel cars were sold in US back in the 90's?
Mercedes discontinued diesels starting with MY2000 till... (I can't remember exactly) maybe 2004-2005. Couldn't meet pollution requirements.

CARB states are the worst in this regard.
While different brand diesel were sold in the rest of the country, CA and a few other states did not get them.
Your memory is somewhat correct, however some of these statements are demonstrably false.

In 2004 EPA implemented the Tier II rules that made the diesel emissions limits for NOx, CO and HC to be the *SAME* as for cars. Note that, until that date, diesels were much dirtier than gassers; afraid you are totally wrong on "diesels were more regulated than gassers". The Tier II standards for gassers were implemented earlier by CARB, however since then there are no essential differences between the two (for emissions of NOx and HC, while CO2 is being used by CARB as a mileage standard.)

The absence of diesels from the US market in the 2004-6 period was due to the fact that no-one could meet particulate (soot, which is a form of HC enhanced by sulfur in the combustion cycle) emissions mandated by the Tier II regs with the low-sulfur (200ppm or more) in that interim period (until ultra-low-sulfur became mandated in 2006), and no-one wanted to ship cars to the US without selling them in CA. (They could have met them with a removable DPF, but maintenance was a nightmare.)

Wikipedia has a more extensive description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...sion_standards
Also, check their article on ultra-low-sulfur.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 10:42 AM   #92
Puerto Rican 335d
Brigadier General
Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
Puerto Rico
229
Rep
3,489
Posts

Drives: Montego Blue 335d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017)

iTrader: (0)

Damn california jajajaja
__________________
RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC
Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD
Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #93
dixy2k
Major
87
Rep
1,152
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

floydarogers
in my defense, the diesel models were not sold here due to non compliance with emissions standards, while the same model of the same brand, gasoline version, was being sold.
same model, different engine fuel, same period of time, same country, different rules. That's how I see it.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 01:02 PM   #94
Puerto Rican 335d
Brigadier General
Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
Puerto Rico
229
Rep
3,489
Posts

Drives: Montego Blue 335d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017)

iTrader: (0)

dixy were screwed anyway we see it.
__________________
RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC
Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD
Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 03:07 PM   #95
Mark M
Major
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
240
Rep
1,288
Posts

Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
yeah, in this case more is actually "better" for now, they have two EGRs, one of which taps after the DPF so is more soot-free



emissions will get stricter and soloutions more complex, thats pretty likely, but modern gas engines really dont have more things attached to them than early emissions cars. In most cases they have less since they dont have an EGR, dont have a smog pump, dont have any of the strange early fixes really. They manage emissions with computer controls and catalytic converters. Im not going to count electronics, DOHC, VANOS (and similar) or other items like that as DOHC first was used in 1912 and vanos was introduced in 1992 (other variable cam timing schemes were in use in cars as early as 1980) and electronics were arguably introduced for a whole selection of reasons including but definitely not limited to emissions.



not a good sign, hope you get that worked out. Coding EGR out/down would be the biggest reason for me to go this route, and im sure im not alone.
Agree 100%. Also placed a call to Redline Speedworx this morning and spoke to Mark. They are only a ~2 hour drive from me. Hoping to find out more about how much EGR coding is possible from Mark / Stan. TDI, keep us posted if you hear anything. Thanks.
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #96
dixy2k
Major
87
Rep
1,152
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Got some more news.
My car is still not ready.
It also needs to have the catalytic converter replaced. That's what they said. I assume it is the DPF.
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #97
floydarogers
Curmudgeon and Pedant
floydarogers's Avatar
United_States
690
Rep
3,489
Posts

Drives: 2010 335d, 2014 328d
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bellevue, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
Got some more news.
My car is still not ready.
It also needs to have the catalytic converter replaced. That's what they said. I assume it is the DPF.
There are actually two - the oxidation catalyst that is part of the DPF, and the SCR catalyst where the DEF/NOx reduction takes place. The mixer for the SCR has been a problem...
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2013, 12:37 PM   #98
dixy2k
Major
87
Rep
1,152
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Any chance of having a recall for these cars?
Class action suit?
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2013, 08:13 PM   #99
TDIwyse
Colonel
612
Rep
2,410
Posts

Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MidWest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
There are actually two - the oxidation catalyst that is part of the DPF, and the SCR catalyst where the DEF/NOx reduction takes place. The mixer for the SCR has been a problem...
Yes, the DOC (Diesel Oxidative Catalyst) is the first part of what's inside the DPF canister. There's a gap between it and the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) where the 2nd of the 3 EGT probes goes.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2013, 08:35 PM   #100
dixy2k
Major
87
Rep
1,152
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

not only do I get a precise answer, I also get pictures along with it too.
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 05:54 AM   #101
Puerto Rican 335d
Brigadier General
Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
Puerto Rico
229
Rep
3,489
Posts

Drives: Montego Blue 335d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017)

iTrader: (0)

now remove yours dixy LOL
__________________
RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC
Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD
Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 06:52 AM   #102
F32Fleet
Lieutenant General
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
3540
Rep
10,327
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southeastern US

iTrader: (0)

Just an FYI For those who think the X5d EGR set up is better.

Don't forget that the X5d burns a lot more fuel so it's possible that the dual EGR is needed to bring soot concentration down to that of the 335d.
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 07:28 AM   #103
Mark M
Major
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
240
Rep
1,288
Posts

Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Just an FYI For those who think the X5d EGR set up is better.

Don't forget that the X5d burns a lot more fuel so it's possible that the dual EGR is needed to bring soot concentration down to that of the 335d.

Interesting point Socom and may have validity. Here is my counter point, don't 'trucks' have looser emissions standards? Aka vehicles above x pounds? Or has CARB nullified that?
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 07:56 AM   #104
F32Fleet
Lieutenant General
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
3540
Rep
10,327
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southeastern US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Interesting point Socom and may have validity. Here is my counter point, don't 'trucks' have looser emissions standards? Aka vehicles above x pounds? Or has CARB nullified that?
They use DPF and SCR as well.
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 08:17 AM   #105
Puerto Rican 335d
Brigadier General
Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
Puerto Rico
229
Rep
3,489
Posts

Drives: Montego Blue 335d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Puerto Rico(Dominican Republic 03/2017)

iTrader: (0)

yes they do the truck drivers are removing and tricking out the ECU down here in Puerto Rico
__________________
RENNtech Flash(Lenny Wu)/WAGNER IC
Enkei Rajin 18"/Execuhitch Hitch/Koni FSD
Soft Ride Bike Rack/Brava Synthetic Motor Oil(Made in Puerto Rico)/Meth(in the works)/CBU done w Andrew EGR Race Pipe (whoa! what an animal it is now)
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #106
dixy2k
Major
87
Rep
1,152
Posts

Drives: 335d
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

I think it falls under a different category due to it's weight.
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 09:18 AM   #107
F32Fleet
Lieutenant General
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
3540
Rep
10,327
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southeastern US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
I think it falls under a different category due to it's weight.
The emissions requirement may differ but no doubt there's DPF and SCR. I see them during my commute daily.
Appreciate 0
      11-22-2013, 09:30 AM   #108
Hoooper
Colonel
213
Rep
2,210
Posts

Drives: 335D
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Petaluma, CA

iTrader: (0)

Tier II emissions standards are the same between cars and light trucks, which includes SUVs. The X5 would have to weigh a lot more or have a different use to be in a different category

Last edited by Hoooper; 11-22-2013 at 09:42 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2013, 03:22 PM   #109
TDIwyse
Colonel
612
Rep
2,410
Posts

Drives: 2011 335d
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: MidWest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Well, yesterday I was monitoring the "pintle position" pin on the EGR valve to see if the valve was staying closed even when the DDE was calling for it to be open.

Couldn't find something like this for our valve, and our pinout isn't quite the same, but this shows what the 5 pins on the electronic EGR do/are for.

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/gm_eg...gr_valve_1.php

Unfortunately, the indication from this measurement is that the EGR is not coded out, and is still operating as it was stock. However, because the throttle valve is fully open all the time, there will still be less exhaust fumes going back into the engine due to less suction caused by having the throttle partially closed (previously the throttle would close some to help increase EGR flow when EGR % was increased).

This is a little disappointing since I was told it would be coded out. Still waiting for Stan to respond to these latest measurements of the EGR behavior.
Well, basically he thought it should've been turned off... He suggested trying to physically blank the EGR and was positive it won't throw any codes. So, today I fabed a quick and dirty block off plate (was almost going to try using a blank or reduced opening where the cooler connects to the EGR input as shown in the upper left ... but decided to just make a plate instead).

My replacement accelerator pedal should be here tomorrow sometime so then I'll hopefully be able get the car up and running and see what happens...
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2013, 05:19 PM   #110
Mark M
Major
Mark M's Avatar
United_States
240
Rep
1,288
Posts

Drives: E30M3 E83X3 E90335D
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA

iTrader: (0)

Very interested in what you find TDI! Question, why not blank the inlet from the exhaust manifold instead so as to minimize risk of hot spots that may crack the EGR cooler? Or am I mistaken with that thought process?
__________________
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST