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      04-29-2010, 11:44 AM   #353
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More for us to read... http://www.signs101.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=158
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      04-29-2010, 12:44 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by XYR03 View Post
Interesting...seems like 3M is the way to go if you want to go right...but its very pricy. I wonder if the series 85 in europe cost the same as the ij380 v3 that we've been talking about. what would you second choice be if you didn't have to use 3m?
Well, when it comes to your ride, do you really want to cheapen out on the vinyl? I understand wanting to do it all yourselves and learning how to do it. I think that's great, because it gives the laymen a better appreciation for what the pros do. But you want it to look great for as long as possible.
Just as "ahyesiam" posted under this, we all have our own personal preferences when it comes to material. I agree with him totally that the V1 was just as crapy and the lam was very brittle. Back then I used Avery's lam, when I (well the batch that was shipped to our distributors in Canada) found the silvering. Which was on the surface of the lam not caused by the print off-gassing. It was just a poor batch I couldn't afford to take chances ordering it on the hope I would get a good roll. Plus my distributor is still taking complaints to this day from other shops about the same thing.
For solid colour film, Avery has the best colour selection and their EZ technology is just as good as 3M's Comply and it is a little less costly.
When it comes to the industry giants, they all have great films, plus garbage that pros won't go near. Just stay away from Arlon films for wrapping. Arlon jumped on the bandwagon about a year ago and their product was introduced at about half the cost of 3M for good reason. It wasn't tested very well, and the roll we were sent to beta test didn't have a time release adhesive, when we tried to pop the film off to reposition it, it left the adhesive layer behind and the film was ruined. I spent more time trying to remove it then applying it.
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      04-29-2010, 01:02 PM   #355
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Anyone planning on giving this a shot in the near future? I'm waiting for a few others to pull this off before i give it a go.
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      04-29-2010, 02:06 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahyesiam View Post
3M sued them because Avery was far better with their new product. 3M was still V1 and it all had that ugly waffle pattern and the 3M lam would feel like rice paper after 6 months.. I wouldn't use 3M until they came out with the V3 and it had been tested. Avery wasn't off the market very long though. I had no trouble getting it even when everyone was saying it was not going to be available. I have not had any silver issues with their lam except for it tends to shrink more than the vinyl over time. The silvering could be due to the type of ink or not letting it outgas long enough before laminating. I like using Oracal 290 lam on Avery and 3M. It is thinner, has a better gloss and weathers better but it is the most expensive.
I'll Give Oracal lam a try, but unfortunately our distributor up here sucks and the last time I had issues with their film, Oracal back peddled and ended up telling us if we had any further issues to contact their legal dept.
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      04-29-2010, 02:08 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Jred22 View Post
Anyone planning on giving this a shot in the near future? I'm waiting for a few others to pull this off before i give it a go.

I bought the Oracle 651 to do my roof. I want to see how itll look. If i like it, imma peel it off and get the roof painted.
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      04-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #358
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superb!
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      04-29-2010, 03:39 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme_sign_guy View Post
Well, when it comes to your ride, do you really want to cheapen out on the vinyl? I understand wanting to do it all yourselves and learning how to do it. I think that's great, because it gives the laymen a better appreciation for what the pros do. But you want it to look great for as long as possible.
Just as "ahyesiam" posted under this, we all have our own personal preferences when it comes to material. I agree with him totally that the V1 was just as crapy and the lam was very brittle. Back then I used Avery's lam, when I (well the batch that was shipped to our distributors in Canada) found the silvering. Which was on the surface of the lam not caused by the print off-gassing. It was just a poor batch I couldn't afford to take chances ordering it on the hope I would get a good roll. Plus my distributor is still taking complaints to this day from other shops about the same thing.
For solid colour film, Avery has the best colour selection and their EZ technology is just as good as 3M's Comply and it is a little less costly.
When it comes to the industry giants, they all have great films, plus garbage that pros won't go near. Just stay away from Arlon films for wrapping. Arlon jumped on the bandwagon about a year ago and their product was introduced at about half the cost of 3M for good reason. It wasn't tested very well, and the roll we were sent to beta test didn't have a time release adhesive, when we tried to pop the film off to reposition it, it left the adhesive layer behind and the film was ruined. I spent more time trying to remove it then applying it.
Ha, go Arlon... NOT! I have a real horror story about that crap but that is another story. Have you ever tried MAC TAC's wrap cast?

Some one asked me why I use Oracal RA when I know it is going to removed. Well the answer is the aggressive adhesive. It handles very well as far as the application goes. it is a little temperature sensitive but good and is not very re-positionable. It likes to stick without any pressure applied making hard to lift back up to reposition. It works best when applied at 68 to 72 degrees room temperature. Bellow 65 it gets brittle and breaks real easy and above 75 it is to soft and stretchy. Removal is a major pain in the butt. It comes off in Little chunks and the adhesive is gray and get all or everything. 3M and Avery if they are laminated comes of in one big pieces when you heat it up to about 140 degrees.
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      04-29-2010, 03:47 PM   #360
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good job
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      04-29-2010, 04:41 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan@PYSpeed.com View Post
Guys, I spoke to my supplier. Here is the deal:

631 is NOT acceptable for this application PERIOD.

The only options from Oracal are 751 and 970RA.

I will be buying a matte black 50 yard x 48 inch roll of 751. The cost for this roll is $480.00.

I will not be using the full 50 yards. So, if another member wants half the roll, they can pay me the cost of half the roll ($240.00) + a couple bucks for shipping, I will do it. I am not purchasing the 50 yard roll until someone sends payment for the other roll. If I end up shipping- heres the deal. I can measure 25 yards and give it to you, or you can wait until I finish my car, and I can give you the squeegees I used as well.

I am located in South Florida, so if someone local wants it, then perfect.

Let me know!!
im interested in the other half roll!
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      04-29-2010, 06:26 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme_sign_guy View Post
I don't really like using Oracal products. The company doesn't stand behind their warranty (well in Canada anyway). If you research their line of film, you will find that the 651 is not the way to go. Personally I would use either 751 or 951 if you are stuck wanting to use Oracal. However the adhesive is permanent, so it has to go down wet for you to get it wrinkle free.

My preferred line of choice is 3M. If it is just a solid colour you are looking for or a digital printed graphic film. 3M has the best adhesive on the market, and their films are far easier to work with then the competitors material. Look for a product with "Comply" like the 3M 225 Series. The key is to have it laminated and with the "Comply" it makes installation a breeze because it has a time release adhesive so you can reposition the vinyl without worrying about the glue permanently sticking right away and ruining your wrap job. Plus you don't need an application fluid, just slap it down dry and there is no waiting for the fluid to evaporate.

This is just my opinion. The guy that used the Flat Black film, unfortunately, his only choice was to use an intermediate film. There is no manufacturer that makes a flat finish material that is 2mil hi-performance cast film. The only think I would do differently is to use 3M's Black 225 series with a matte laminate to get the same effect.
Hey I really appreciate your help. I am defenitely not going with the oracol. I am going with a solid color so I will go with the 3m. I just have a question? were can I get it? Do you know a company online that sells it? I have not been able to find it.. Thanks for the help
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      04-29-2010, 06:42 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreme_sign_guy View Post
I don't really like using Oracal products. The company doesn't stand behind their warranty (well in Canada anyway). If you research their line of film, you will find that the 651 is not the way to go. Personally I would use either 751 or 951 if you are stuck wanting to use Oracal. However the adhesive is permanent, so it has to go down wet for you to get it wrinkle free.

My preferred line of choice is 3M. If it is just a solid colour you are looking for or a digital printed graphic film. 3M has the best adhesive on the market, and their films are far easier to work with then the competitors material. Look for a product with "Comply" like the 3M 225 Series. The key is to have it laminated and with the "Comply" it makes installation a breeze because it has a time release adhesive so you can reposition the vinyl without worrying about the glue permanently sticking right away and ruining your wrap job. Plus you don't need an application fluid, just slap it down dry and there is no waiting for the fluid to evaporate.

This is just my opinion. The guy that used the Flat Black film, unfortunately, his only choice was to use an intermediate film. There is no manufacturer that makes a flat finish material that is 2mil hi-performance cast film. The only think I would do differently is to use 3M's Black 225 series with a matte laminate to get the same effect.
Hey I found this page that sells 3m vinyls. I found this vinyl that will work for me what do you think about it? check the page please..http://www.hyatts.com/sign/3m-220-sc...unpunch-3.7228
thanks
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      04-29-2010, 06:46 PM   #364
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do you have any people in Maryland that could do this?

thanks
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      04-29-2010, 07:55 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flymosquera View Post
Hey I found this page that sells 3m vinyls. I found this vinyl that will work for me what do you think about it? check the page please..http://www.hyatts.com/sign/3m-220-sc...unpunch-3.7228
thanks
If the vinyl on that 3m site is the good stuff, then it's a decent price. I called around for some quotes on Oracal and got $142 for 48"X10yd flat black 951 and $658 for 60"X25yd for 970RA.

Steve
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      04-30-2010, 03:14 AM   #366
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whered you get the vinyl
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      04-30-2010, 08:54 AM   #367
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lol looks like no one had made a move yet...I guess we r all waiting for each other for feedbacks....haha

http://getcarbonfiber.com/matte-flat...nyl-wrap-film/

Lets start wrapping guys!
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Last edited by XYR03; 04-30-2010 at 09:13 AM.
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      04-30-2010, 09:29 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by flymosquera View Post
Hey I found this page that sells 3m vinyls. I found this vinyl that will work for me what do you think about it? check the page please..http://www.hyatts.com/sign/3m-220-sc...unpunch-3.7228
thanks
That's 3M's flagship line. The 220 series is their 8 year hi performance 2mil cast. If you are going to use this, be careful, because the adhesive will stick on contact. You may want to use a soap and water solution to apply it. Great price for an online supplier. Just find out what the shipping will run you, because a 48" roll of film has some weight. You might be better off going to http://solutions.3m.com/en_US/ and finding a distributor in your area. If the distributor won't sell it retail, they will point you to a sign and graphics shop that will.
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      04-30-2010, 09:33 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by XYR03 View Post
lol looks like no one had made a move yet...I guess we r all waiting for each other for feedbacks....haha

http://getcarbonfiber.com/matte-flat...nyl-wrap-film/

Lets start wrapping guys!
This product is fantastic. I recommend it to anyone
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      04-30-2010, 09:42 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by xtreme_sign_guy View Post
Just find out what the shipping will run you...
Shipping Options:
Shipping fees represent rate plus insurance and handling charges added by Hyatt's.
Service Type Business Days in Transit Price
Domestic Ground 4 $0.00


Looks good to me!

Steve
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      04-30-2010, 10:15 AM   #371
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Yo whats the best price we can get for doing just the roof of the car with the 3M ? ?

Also is the Premium Cast Vinyl any good ? ? Thats all that they are adertised as, can't find any other name on it.

Thanks Pros
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      04-30-2010, 10:27 AM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XYR03 View Post
lol looks like no one had made a move yet...I guess we r all waiting for each other for feedbacks....haha

http://getcarbonfiber.com/matte-flat...nyl-wrap-film/

Lets start wrapping guys!
hahaha nice

but at 58"x240" at $400... not enough vinyl?

im also looking for matte white which is on the site.. but what would be the best solution for matte white since i heard it gets dirty? i was reading somewhere i should buy white 3m 180c vinyl with a matte over laminate so it can be protected from the dirt and stuff... dont want the white vinyl to stain. any suggestions will be appreciated!
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      04-30-2010, 10:59 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by flymosquera View Post
Hey I found this page that sells 3m vinyls. I found this vinyl that will work for me what do you think about it? check the page please..http://www.hyatts.com/sign/3m-220-sc...unpunch-3.7228
thanks


3M film selector to help see what is made for what use.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...s/CG-Selector/
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      04-30-2010, 11:18 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by sillygoat View Post
hahaha nice

but at 58"x240" at $400... not enough vinyl?

im also looking for matte white which is on the site.. but what would be the best solution for matte white since i heard it gets dirty? i was reading somewhere i should buy white 3m 180c vinyl with a matte over laminate so it can be protected from the dirt and stuff... dont want the white vinyl to stain. any suggestions will be appreciated!
3ft=1yard=36in...240in=6.6yards so nope! I think the stuff on getcarbonfiber.com is laminated already becuase they are charinging twice as much as what i can get it from vinyl vendor. I also think that this is the same company as stickercity.com. I dont know...I'm backing out inch by inch the more I research on this subject. Its getting really expensive to be odd project...still the OP did an awesome job. I woder if he still has it on his car...where is he?? lol
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