[matty81]

Hi people,

when my car was in the garage at the weekend the machanic said there is excessive play in the lower arm rose joint. Can anyone send me a link to this part please so i get the right one?

Many thanks

[matty81]

is this the part?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E81-E8...item2c9cdca734

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by matty81

is this the part?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E81-E8...item2c9cdca734

Unlikely. Put your car's VIN number into RealOEM and you can then identify not only the part, but the part number:

http://www.realoem.com/

[matty81]

Cool thanks

[matty81]

looks like its the same as the ball joint

[Aragorn30d]

Which end of the car for starters?

There are multiple rose joints on the rear end, the description is too vague.

[matty81]

Its the lower rear if thats any help?

[old grey steve]

Looks like lower rear hub bush fairly common on a lot of BMW's especially 5 series but we don't see too many on 3 series but not to say they don't go, a simple thing to notice apart from a slight deteriation in handling is over speed humps if you go fairly slowly you might hear a squeak/groan type noise when load is applied.

Cost wise to purchase they aren't too bad, you can get them from GSF/Euro's with ease, but the slight downside is that they are usually a little time consuming to replace re labour and it's not a half hour quick on/off type job I'm afraid.

[matty81]

Yeah the mechanic said the handling didnt feel quite right, also when i got over a bump i notice a pshhh kinda noise, but not sure if that is just the suspension as im pretty sure its from the front.

Ive found x2 BMW parts on ebay for £30 which seems alright, im guessing it would make sense to replace both?

[Phil325i]

No offence, but I would listen to Old Grey Steve when he says failure of these is unusual for 3-series. Does your 'garage mechanic' know much about BMW suspension? I'm concerned he's using the term 'rose joint'. Unless your car's been modified, it doesn't have rose-jointed bushes.

BMWs have quite complex multi-link suspension and it would be easy for someone with no experience to mis-diagnose. My advice would be to take your car to a good BMW specialist who can identify which bushes are at fault.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by matty81

Yeah the mechanic said the handling didnt feel quite right, also when i got over a bump i notice a pshhh kinda noise, but not sure if that is just the suspension as im pretty sure its from the front.

Ive found x2 BMW parts on ebay for £30 which seems alright, im guessing it would make sense to replace both?

If handling feels a bit vague then this could well be a major contributory factor, bear in mind the cars RWD your pushing the car along, any wayward activity from the hub bush could produce anything from partial rear wheel steer to uneven tyre wear perhaps both, depends on how severe it is and how long it's been going, but lower rear hub bushes do take a pounding and over time slowly wear. The most common issue we get to gear about from customers is the squeak or shudder type sensation over undulating roads/speed humps where naturally the suspension is under duress.

The noise you've heard could be a shock if it's down on resistance then again that'll effect handling as well it feel nervous or you'll hear/get a kind of pumbiling type noise over rough ground, perhaps at speed the car will feel floaty, but on a hub bush you wouldn't hear a gas type psst type noise you've described, you'll hear as said a knock or squeak type effect. So perhaps under the surface you've got more than one thing going on and a garage any garage to thst effect should be able to identify what's going on simply you bouncing each corner though crude will give you a basic idea as if one corner bounces a little to much it'll at least help establish there's something amiss, but it's a bit crude and best off being checked in the air correctly, pry bar in tow

To remove it basic tools are required of course, but the biggest obsticle as such some face is the ecentric washer assembly that BMW like to use on a lot of their suspension components but its basic stuff really and should cause any dramas

Found this US link that explains it a little what you could be facing

http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...eplacement.htm

Originally Posted by Phil325i

No offence, but I would listen to Old Grey Steve when he says failure of these is unusual for 3-series. Does your 'garage mechanic' know much about BMW suspension? I'm concerned he's using the term 'rose joint'. Unless your car's been modified, it doesn't have rose-jointed bushes.

BMWs have quite complex multi-link suspension and it would be easy for someone with no experience to mis-diagnose. My advice would be to take your car to a good BMW specialist who can identify which bushes are at fault.

Your right Phil the rears are a bit of a nightmare for some as its multilink but I do suspect that if any things gonna suffer it'll be the lower rear hub bush. As you've said Phil, Rose Jointed rear suspension doesn't figure at all in this chassis at all but as its multi link it's the most common place to start easily identified in the air and with the use of a pry bar, which is the MOT testers best friend in identifying this sort of thing.

[Aragorn30d]

A number of the "bushes" on the rear suspension are balljoints rather than your typical rubber bonded bush.

The "bush" that attaches the lower camber arm to the wheel carrier is infact a balljoint.

The upper rear arm also has a balljoint on the inner end.

thye look something like this (right hand side):

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/attac...6&d=1421289583

M3 models have some additional bushes on the rear end replaced with balljoints too.

[matty81]

Yeah that's a good point he's not a bmw specialist but not an average garage as he specialises in imprezas, so maybe I'll take it to a bmw specialist as there is one near me. I don't think it does have a noise coming from it but when going pretty fast on the motorway on a bend it feels a little funny, hard to explain but I don't feel comfortable giving it full throttle, also my left rear tyre is bald on the inside where the outside and other tyre are fine

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by matty81

Yeah that's a good point he's not a bmw specialist but not an average garage as he specialises in imprezas, so maybe I'll take it to a bmw specialist as there is one near me. I don't think it does have a noise coming from it but when going pretty fast on the motorway on a bend it feels a little funny, hard to explain but I don't feel comfortable giving it full throttle, also my left rear tyre is bald on the inside where the outside and other tyre are fine

I do believe in this statement you've answered everything, the ear side rear wear (though they do scrub the inners of the rears in most cases anyway)could have accelerated wear due tothe bush not performing as it should, therefore you need to get this looked at, secondly if thehandling isn't all that at speed again the rear bush as I've already stated could well be a major factor in this but at the same time you could well have an issue re a shock for instance terefore the correct way to attack these sort of things is to get it in the air and see what is found, if your mechanic is a Scooby specialist to be fair it should cause him no many nightmares afterall a shocks a shock and Scoobys to the best of my knowledge usually are harder to work on than a BMW interms of complexity

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Aragorn30d

A number of the "bushes" on the rear suspension are balljoints rather than your typical rubber bonded bush.

The "bush" that attaches the lower camber arm to the wheel carrier is infact a balljoint.

The upper rear arm also has a balljoint on the inner end.

thye look something like this (right hand side):

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/attac...6&d=1421289583

M3 models have some additional bushes on the rear end replaced with balljoints too.

Your right as its multi link theres a fair bit that can wear, the most common that'll effect handling will be the lower hub bush(can be called a balljoint as well but usually as its a bush in nature we call it a bush) there a straight top arm that can wear, these are more common on 3's but you'll hear a knocking but handling isn't dramatically effected but it does wear and is easily identifiable with a pry bar and if its gone too far with Ray Charles holding the torch, Steveie Wonder will be able to see the wear on the inner bush on this top arm for instance

As you'l see from this picture http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9...el_suspension/ there's a bit of a choice of arms bush's balljoints to chose from hence again the need to get it in the air and check everything out carefully with a pry bar for movement or visible signs of wear this is the only way to identify whats going on.

[Aragorn30d]

I was just highlighting that phil said there were no balljoints on the rear suspension, when infact there are! They're cleverly disguised as rubber bushes until you look a bit closer. The fact the garage has noticed that it was a balljoint, and not just assumed it was a rubber bush, suggests at least some level of competence!

OK the garage called them rose joints, which isnt really the right name for them i guess, but you can imagine they were talking about the same thing.

Its part 3 they're probably talking about.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Aragorn30d

I was just highlighting that phil said there were no balljoints on the rear suspension, when infact there are! They're cleverly disguised as rubber bushes until you look a bit closer. The fact the garage has noticed that it was a balljoint, and not just assumed it was a rubber bush, suggests at least some level of competence!

OK the garage called them rose joints, which isnt really the right name for them i guess, but you can imagine they were talking about the same thing.

Its part 3 they're probably talking about.

Yep on the picture I posted your spot on its No3 that I was thinking was the culprit, re the garage again they've looked and seen so they may well of been sniffing in the right area OP hasn't stated what's been identified bar "there is excessive play in the lower arm rose joint & Its the lower rear if thats any help?" and re the handling again in the air for a propper look should be able to narrow that one down too as to whether there's say a shock issue or something

[matty81]

yeha i thought it was no 3 on that diagram, well ive booked it in to a garage tomorrow to have a look at, not the guy that found it as i couldnt get hold of him but another garage that deal with a fair few 3 series, so hopefully they kno what they are doing, thanks for your help guys!

[Phil325i]

Matt, in case you don't get satisfaction, I can thoroughly recommend Brompsec at Stockbridge. Not far from you and an excellent BMW indy (I have no connection by the way).

http://www.andovergermancarservice.com/

[matty81]

cool thanks for that, always handy to know where another specialist is