E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum > Unethical Vendor - BMS (Burger Motorsports bad review)



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-16-2012, 04:02 PM   #133
Laguna Seca Blue
Major
Laguna Seca Blue's Avatar
United_States
234
Rep
1,040
Posts

Drives: N54 E92 | N55 F15 | N55 E70
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

JetBlackE46 - I think anyone with a shroud of impartiality can see what went on here. I commend you for coming on here and making this public. You made the right call.

To those of you diehard BMS supporters, it's really time you rub your eyes and see the light. BMS has made a business of copying other companies ideas and spreading fallacies about the original innovator's product. There is an endemic pattern that has happened time and time again. I encourage those you have made misinformed posts in this thread to do a little searching and learn more. Support innovation, it's how we as a community are going to move forward.

E90post is a place where good-sense prevails. The only divisions in this community are created by individuals who refuse to abide by the tenants of common-sense and civility.
__________________
E92 335i 6MT | Balloon White | Black Dakota Leather - Sold
PROcede Rev3 V5 | AE Quad Exhaust | BMW Performance Short Shift Kit | Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels | BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 | AST 4100 Coilovers | Swift Springs F:280 R:560 | ER Charge Pipe | Tial Blue BOV | VRSF 3" Downpipes | VRSF 7" Intercooler

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 04:23 PM   #134
e90328i
Banned
24
Rep
386
Posts

Drives: 07 E90 335i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: socal

iTrader: (4)

If your product is not patented it dosen't matter. BMS has great customer service and products, I think this thread is bashing bms more then it should. yes taking someone else's pictures isn't cool, but who cares if its not patented thats your own fault for letting it happen. Terry is extremely helpful through email and ships very quick.. I am no diehard bms fan just vouching for good products and service!

Last edited by e90328i; 10-16-2012 at 04:30 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #135
Laguna Seca Blue
Major
Laguna Seca Blue's Avatar
United_States
234
Rep
1,040
Posts

Drives: N54 E92 | N55 F15 | N55 E70
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90328i View Post
If your product is not patented it dosen't matter. BMS has great customer service and products, I think this thread is bashing bms more then it should. yes taking someone else's pictures isn't cool, but who cares if its not patented thats your own fault for letting it happen. Terry is extremely helpful through email and ships very quick.. I am no diehard bms fan just vouching for good products and service!
I think you're completely missing the point. Taking a legalistic approach to this issue is just an excuse for bad behavior. Secondly, we're not discussing whether Terry is helpful or how quickly they ship. It's irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Anyway, I think I've made my point clearly enough. I'm leaving this thread.
__________________
E92 335i 6MT | Balloon White | Black Dakota Leather - Sold
PROcede Rev3 V5 | AE Quad Exhaust | BMW Performance Short Shift Kit | Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels | BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 | AST 4100 Coilovers | Swift Springs F:280 R:560 | ER Charge Pipe | Tial Blue BOV | VRSF 3" Downpipes | VRSF 7" Intercooler

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 04:54 PM   #136
cooler2442
Brigadier General
476
Rep
4,153
Posts

Drives: 1/18 Monte Carlo Blue E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
JetBlackE46 - I think anyone with a shroud of impartiality can see what went on here. I commend you for coming on here and making this public. You made the right call.

To those of you diehard BMS supporters, it's really time you rub your eyes and see the light. BMS has made a business of copying other companies ideas and spreading fallacies about the original innovator's product. There is an endemic pattern that has happened time and time again. I encourage those you have made misinformed posts in this thread to do a little searching and learn more. Support innovation, it's how we as a community are going to move forward.

E90post is a place where good-sense prevails. The only divisions in this community are created by individuals who refuse to abide by the tenants of common-sense and civility.

So you're saying that when a company comes out with a product that costs 50$ to make and sells it for 800$+ because of the "BMW" tax. Another company see's that they can make it for the same amount but only charge 400$, they shouldn't do that because they would be "copying" another product?

We live in a free economy, if someone else can make the same quality product at half the price then it gets done. Happens everywhere.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 06:27 PM   #137
DFW_M
Major General
1639
Rep
6,556
Posts

Drives: G80 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90328i View Post
If your product is not patented it dosen't matter. BMS has great customer service and products, I think this thread is bashing bms more then it should. yes taking someone else's pictures isn't cool, but who cares if its not patented thats your own fault for letting it happen. Terry is extremely helpful through email and ships very quick.. I am no diehard bms fan just vouching for good products and service!
WHAT???!!!!
1) you have NO clue what Patent means
2) Why is that Terry banned here for years and not welcome on these boards?
3) I read that more than 50% of the comments actually believe that his service is terrible and are not surprised by his action described in this thread.

BMS deserves to go down...over a few $1000s!!!

I believe the mods should ban the word BMS on these forums
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 09:42 PM   #138
max_k20
Bavarian Love
Canada
24
Rep
263
Posts

Drives: 230i xDrive
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Quebec, Canada

iTrader: (2)

Just because I first went with BMS clutch stop I just ordered yours for the sake of it. Will see difference between rubber and metal washer when I receive it !
__________________
08 FG2 Civic SI FBO - SOLD
09 E92 335i Xdrive FBO - SOLD
17 F22 230i Xdrive | Alpine White | Coral Red | M-Sport | BMS Intake | JB4 | 666M Rep | M Carbon Mirrors | Roof Rack | Daily Driven
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 10:31 PM   #139
GAM
Lieutenant
GAM's Avatar
39
Rep
471
Posts

Drives: 2014 M6 Gran Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Palm Beach

iTrader: (1)

Guys you have to slow down here, you are making a big deal over a ridiculous amount of money. You are all complaining about BMS copying products. If they do, it is like any business in the world, and if they make the product better and cheaper they win the business. Like any company.
Reading most of your posts it looks like you would buy a Chevy if they were the first company to invent cars? And if BMW would have started to make cars later one, you would say BMW stole the idea from Chevy?, and say "oh I will never buy BMW then"...
It is a very basic example but it is the reality, Guys, open your eyes, it's the business world...
If BMS used the pictures from the OP, it is not acceptable, but they might have thought it wasn't a big deal as I don't think BMS makes a lot of money on it, after paying a warehouse and employees... Most of the people here running their own business probably understand, for those still at school, you will later.

You guys probably don't realize how hard it is to build a business and a brand. BMS is selling great products for a fraction of the price most of the time. Instead of bashing them like you all do on this thread, try to run your own company and do like Terry does, try to answer emails within two hours, even when the questions are silly, any days of the week...

Personally I've had only great experiences with BMS, and I haven't seen many companies having a customer support like the have. My JB4 had an issue one day, I overnighted it to BMS, they changed what was wrong with it and had it the next day. Free of charge, and I bought mine used... Who does that?

OP I understand your frustration and it is true that BMS could be in touch with you and apologize, or maybe send you a pair of new DPs for the inconvenience. But for the other guys on this forum, please take it easy on a company doing everything they can for us, BMW enthusiasts...
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 05:28 AM   #140
DFW_M
Major General
1639
Rep
6,556
Posts

Drives: G80 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfabry View Post
Guys you have to slow down here, you are making a big deal over a ridiculous amount of money. You are all complaining about BMS copying products. If they do, it is like any business in the world, and if they make the product better and cheaper they win the business. Like any company.
Reading most of your posts it looks like you would buy a Chevy if they were the first company to invent cars? And if BMW would have started to make cars later one, you would say BMW stole the idea from Chevy?, and say "oh I will never buy BMW then"...
It is a very basic example but it is the reality, Guys, open your eyes, it's the business world...
If BMS used the pictures from the OP, it is not acceptable, but they might have thought it wasn't a big deal as I don't think BMS makes a lot of money on it, after paying a warehouse and employees... Most of the people here running their own business probably understand, for those still at school, you will later.

You guys probably don't realize how hard it is to build a business and a brand. BMS is selling great products for a fraction of the price most of the time. Instead of bashing them like you all do on this thread, try to run your own company and do like Terry does, try to answer emails within two hours, even when the questions are silly, any days of the week...

Personally I've had only great experiences with BMS, and I haven't seen many companies having a customer support like the have. My JB4 had an issue one day, I overnighted it to BMS, they changed what was wrong with it and had it the next day. Free of charge, and I bought mine used... Who does that?

OP I understand your frustration and it is true that BMS could be in touch with you and apologize, or maybe send you a pair of new DPs for the inconvenience. But for the other guys on this forum, please take it easy on a company doing everything they can for us, BMW enthusiasts...
Now, go back and read the OP before making a fool out of yourself with those BMW/Chevy examples, etc...
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 03:35 PM   #141
e90328i
Banned
24
Rep
386
Posts

Drives: 07 E90 335i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: socal

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr335is View Post
WHAT???!!!!
1) you have NO clue what Patent means
2) Why is that Terry banned here for years and not welcome on these boards?
3) I read that more than 50% of the comments actually believe that his service is terrible and are not surprised by his action described in this thread.

BMS deserves to go down...over a few $1000s!!!

I believe the mods should ban the word BMS on these forums
Have you ever purchased anything from bms??? I Can say the same thing about vishnu and there products.. vishnu/fftec is worshipped on these forums and its funny because I have a friend who went from procede to jb4 just from the support terry provides through email (answers within 24 hours) and the constant firmware updates and releases on n54 tech.. Anyways this isn't a tuner war get over it there both great motivators for the n54 community and push on each other to release better products. This is a part that can be put together with a couple washers and a plastic clip.. nothing to get mad over and if it was that serious something would have been done by now.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 03:38 PM   #142
e90328i
Banned
24
Rep
386
Posts

Drives: 07 E90 335i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: socal

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
So you're saying that when a company comes out with a product that costs 50$ to make and sells it for 800$+ because of the "BMW" tax. Another company see's that they can make it for the same amount but only charge 400$, they shouldn't do that because they would be "copying" another product?

We live in a free economy, if someone else can make the same quality product at half the price then it gets done. Happens everywhere.
My point explained much better
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 03:38 PM   #143
E90Company
Major General
E90Company's Avatar
No_Country
194
Rep
6,136
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90328i View Post
Have you ever purchased anything from bms??? I Can say the same thing about vishnu and there products.. vishnu/fftec is worshipped on these forums and its funny because I have a friend who went from procede to jb4 just from the support terry provides through email (answers within 24 hours) and the constant firmware updates and releases on n54 tech.. Anyways this isn't a tuner war get over it there both great motivators for the n54 community and push on each other to release better products. This is a part that can be put together with a couple washers and a plastic clip.. nothing to get mad over and if it was that serious something would have been done by now.
+1 @ BMS support. Fantastic.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 03:39 PM   #144
335iaz
Cause their greeaaaaat!!!!
United_States
29
Rep
717
Posts

Drives: SBM E90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Peoria, AZ

iTrader: (14)

Grabs another bag of popcorn.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 05:12 PM   #145
DFW_M
Major General
1639
Rep
6,556
Posts

Drives: G80 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90328i View Post
My point explained much better
You keep emphasizing how you do not get the whole point of the OP. And you keep proving that you are immature for this thread.
Yes, I know a person who used a wire and made a clothes hanger out of it and is a millionaire today. That does not give the right to me to do the same product, Market it with the inventor's marketing material, call it something else and sell for 60% of his price...
That is stealing.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 08:25 PM   #146
Laguna Seca Blue
Major
Laguna Seca Blue's Avatar
United_States
234
Rep
1,040
Posts

Drives: N54 E92 | N55 F15 | N55 E70
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

I know i said I would stay out of this thread, but the amount of eye mucus that has clouded some of your vision's is wretch-worthy. For the record, I run a successful business and while i don't claim to know it all, I do have some idea of how things work. I own a fine jewelry business and the temptation to copy other companies designs is certainly there. Doing so would mean I wouldn't have to spend money on hiring designers or spend countless hours fine-tuning ideas. However, I have avoided that temptation like the plague because it's just not right.

Now, someone from the other side of this debate brought up a good point: We live in a free economy and it is every market entrants right to build upon an existing innovation and sell it for less. Whoever said this is absolutely right. I build upon other people's designs all the time and don't feel any remorse. However, this is not what BMS has done in the case of this clutch stop or copying the PROcede. Terry Burger made an exact replica of Nelson's unique clutch-stop and a shoddy replica of Vishnu's PROcede (It has since improved somewhat). Every single time Shiv released a new feature, BMS initially badmouthed it, and then a few months later they replicated it. Now, if BMS and Vishnu were copying ideas off each other, that would be fine. However, Shiv has always been the first mover and Terry has always followed (CAN integration, Boost Control, CPS Offsetting...the list goes on). This my friends, is blatant copying, and its morally reprehensible.

I love the fact that BMS has been caught red-handed over a $10 clutch stop because it illustrates what they've been doing on a much larger scale. Terry Burger has ducked and dived over the years, but it's time he is made to be accountable for his actions.

Those of you who are trying to twist this discussion into something about customer service or how great BMS' products are, obviously have an amoral perception of business ethics. I, however am not going to sit by and watch Nelson get bullied because his product is only worth a few bucks.
__________________
E92 335i 6MT | Balloon White | Black Dakota Leather - Sold
PROcede Rev3 V5 | AE Quad Exhaust | BMW Performance Short Shift Kit | Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels | BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 | AST 4100 Coilovers | Swift Springs F:280 R:560 | ER Charge Pipe | Tial Blue BOV | VRSF 3" Downpipes | VRSF 7" Intercooler

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212

Last edited by Laguna Seca Blue; 10-17-2012 at 09:03 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 10:03 PM   #147
bmwkbiker
Private
United_States
2
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: 335i E93
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SF Bay area

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwkbiker View Post
The current links do not have identical photos in them. Copying a design is common practice that benefits consumers by creating a price competitive market. Assuming BMS actually posted your pictures they could be guilty of copyright infringement and you might have a viable course of legal action.

Other than that this is just free market dynamics at work.
I support BMS right to copy your product and offer something similar at a lower price.

I DO NOT support what appears to be a blatant violation of copy right law by stealing your marketing material to sell their products.

Last edited by bmwkbiker; 10-17-2012 at 10:13 PM.. Reason: replaced using with stealing, because that what it looks like.
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 07:20 AM   #148
jpirelli
Power is nothing without control
jpirelli's Avatar
33
Rep
762
Posts

Drives: E90 + E92
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southeast/Southwest

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwkbiker View Post
I support BMS right to copy your product and offer something similar at a lower price.

I DO NOT support what appears to be a blatant violation of copy right law by stealing your marketing material to sell their products.
Agreed 100%
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 10:15 AM   #149
Sara
Lieutenant General
5776
Rep
17,879
Posts

Drives: A car
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nola

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90328i View Post
Have you ever purchased anything from bms??? I Can say the same thing about vishnu and there products.. vishnu/fftec is worshipped on these forums and its funny because I have a friend who went from procede to jb4 just from the support terry provides through email (answers within 24 hours) and the constant firmware updates and releases on n54 tech.. Anyways this isn't a tuner war get over it there both great motivators for the n54 community and push on each other to release better products. This is a part that can be put together with a couple washers and a plastic clip.. nothing to get mad over and if it was that serious something would have been done by now.
Im still waiting on Terry to get back to me from my emails in March...
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 10:39 AM   #150
OECMG
Banned
0
Rep
46
Posts

Drives: 2008 328xi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

VERY interesting reading! I found myself with some strong opinions of the vendor posting this, bms vendor, and other customers making replies. Before I start going off I have a question.

This is the clutch stop product that the vendor produced with months of R&D that bms has copied from him, stole his photos, and stole his marketing materials? Because I have four of these under the chair I am sitting on right now!
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 11:41 AM   #151
JetBlackE46
Private First Class
JetBlackE46's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
106
Posts

Drives: ///M
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OECMG View Post
VERY interesting reading! I found myself with some strong opinions of the vendor posting this, bms vendor, and other customers making replies. Before I start going off I have a question.

This is the clutch stop product that the vendor produced with months of R&D that bms has copied from him, stole his photos, and stole his marketing materials? Because I have four of these under the chair I am sitting on right now!
I know you're a brand new member, but did you even read the thread?

This is the clutch stop. The one you posted is for the E30, E36, E46. There's a DIY on other forums if you search.

Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 01:44 PM   #152
OECMG
Banned
0
Rep
46
Posts

Drives: 2008 328xi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlackE46 View Post
I know you're a brand new member, but did you even read the thread?

This is the clutch stop. The one you posted is for the E30, E36, E46. There's a DIY on other forums if you search.
I see it's the plastic one. Like the metal one only made from plastic. OK. I noticed another vendor is selling this same plastic clutch stop for a long time, have you copied it from them and their photos and their marketing materials? They appear to be the same.



Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 02:28 PM   #153
psmitty95
Brigadier General
psmitty95's Avatar
United_States
578
Rep
4,393
Posts

Drives: '23 M340i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara504 View Post
Im still waiting on Terry to get back to me from my emails in March...
I'd say resend cause he might not have gotten it. I've never had him take longer than a day to respond to any of my emails even if they're sent at 11 at night. He usually responds within the hour...
__________________
< Click picture for photoshoot
E90 335i xDrive 6spd, Nav, Prem, Cold Weather, & Sports package - Msport Conversion
Mods: JB4 + MHD, Doc Race ST, Pure 6266, AD-Eng PI/Mounts, Fuel-It st. 3, Custom Exhaust, Tuned by TwistedTuning
More Pictures: Build Thread /// 683AWHP/675AWTQ
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 02:35 PM   #154
Sara
Lieutenant General
5776
Rep
17,879
Posts

Drives: A car
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nola

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
I'd say resend cause he might not have gotten it. I've never had him take longer than a day to respond to any of my emails even if they're sent at 11 at night. He usually responds within the hour...
I sent him an email stating I was having a problem. His response.."There have been no issues reported"

Well, thanks for the effort in trying to resolve it! Not.

Emailed him twice more with the same subject. His response.."Never had an issue, I'll look into it Monday" Never got back to me.

I had to figure it out on my own. Which I did with a friend. No thanks to BMS.
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST