[leftcoastman]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140377

Ouch. Do those mods add up to the $20k+ difference?

I can't wait to see the new M3 on track. Not just to beat it to smithereens (hehe, couldn't resist) but to see and hear the new beast. mmmm...

[TSM330i]

You can't compare modified cars to stock cars. If you want to do that, I'm sure you could find a Honda Civic that'll be faster than an M3.

[dhan]

wouldn't you say that an m3 is a "modified" e92? id say the brakes, lsd, and tune of the 135 only evens the playing field. the point of the OP being that - is a $20k dealer modified e92 worth it over a user modified 135? (going purely off performance i assume)

[AJerman]

Originally Posted by AW325xi

You can't compare modified cars to stock cars. If you want to do that, I'm sure you could find a Honda Civic that'll be faster than an M3.

Why not? They are on the same track right? Now a Civic would be silly because it doesn't compare to a BMW, but the 135 or 335 are both nice cars still.

When the money is coming out of my pocket I sure as hell can compare the two. Sure the M3 has a few features the others don't, but ultimately it's the engine that's the appeal of the M3, not a few extra features. If I can have the power of the M3 for the cost of a 335, then why would I get the M3?

[shimshimhada]

Did you guys even read the thread? Moton dampers, Performance Friction Calipers? Not to mention the driver of the 135i is a Speed World Challenge driver, not to say that the instructor of the PDC is a worse driver. I'm surprised the 135i only edged out the M3.

M3 with properly dialed in quality aftermarket suspension would kill the 135i.

Originally Posted by dhan

wouldn't you say that an m3 is a "modified" e92? id say the brakes, lsd, and tune of the 135 only evens the playing field. the point of the OP being that - is a $20k dealer modified e92 worth it over a user modified 135? (going purely off performance i assume)

You can't compare any stock vehicle to any modified vehicle. One having race dampers vs. street dampers is not comparable, regardless of price difference.

[Digital.James]

Motons > all

[LOLrance]

Originally Posted by Digital.James

Motons > all

lol +10000.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

Did you guys even read the thread? Moton dampers, Performance Friction Calipers? Not to mention the driver of the 135i is a Speed World Challenge driver, not to say that the instructor of the PDC is a worse driver. I'm surprised the 135i only edged out the M3.

M3 with properly dialed in quality aftermarket suspension would kill the 135i.


You can't compare any stock vehicle to any modified vehicle. One having race dampers vs. street dampers is not comparable, regardless of price difference.

You can be a speed world challenge king (and I've been on track with a few of them - not always impressive, btw), but it's undeniable that the PDC instructor probably had 10,000 laps on that track. I'd put my money on the instructor who has done 10,000 laps.

The M3, if you didn't know, has the Bilstein coilovers, effectively. And these Motons were the double adjustables (like the Bilsteins), not the quad-adjustable super race dampers.

And honestly, how many seconds do you think a set of full on race dampers gets you over "standard double adjustables"?

The point of the OP, as noted by some, is that you are paying $20,000+ for BMW to modify your E92. Granted, the badge is of value to some, but just not to me. This is not a comparison of civic vs. bmw, as the E92 M3 is based on the E92 335 (and I know this is about the 135, but let's say for argument's sake the 335 and 135 are similar). M-Division is modifying it for you.

Personally, I'd rather spend $10k modifying a 135/335 and take the other $10+k and spend it on track days, lol.

Again, back to my mantra of speaking softly but carrying a very big, fast stick.

[shimshimhada]

The Bilsteins on the M3 are 2-way adjustable? I'm sure the PDC instructor is king of his home course, I'm just throwing out that the drivers may be comparable.

On the topic of 4-way shocks vs 2-way ones...I have to say that a properly dialed in 4-way will be at least a few seconds quicker than a 2-way...but then again, it depends on the course. I didn't assume the Motons were the quad-adjustables ones anyway, it's just that the Motons dampers are way better than most OTC dampers by far.

Not sure what we're arguing about anyway. Are we?

If it were up to me, I'd just pick up an older E46 M3 and invest 20K into it, and smoke both the newer gens BMWs.

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

You can be a speed world challenge king (and I've been on track with a few of them - not always impressive, btw), but it's undeniable that the PDC instructor probably had 10,000 laps on that track. I'd put my money on the instructor who has done 10,000 laps.

The M3, if you didn't know, has the Bilstein coilovers, effectively. And these Motons were the double adjustables (like the Bilsteins), not the quad-adjustable super race dampers.

And honestly, how many seconds do you think a set of full on race dampers gets you over "standard double adjustables"?

The point of the OP, as noted by some, is that you are paying $20,000+ for BMW to modify your E92. Granted, the badge is of value to some, but just not to me. This is not a comparison of civic vs. bmw, as the E92 M3 is based on the E92 335 (and I know this is about the 135, but let's say for argument's sake the 335 and 135 are similar). M-Division is modifying it for you.

Personally, I'd rather spend $10k modifying a 135/335 and take the other $10+k and spend it on track days, lol.

Again, back to my mantra of speaking softly but carrying a very big, fast stick.

[elbert]

Originally Posted by Digital.James

Ohlins > all

fixed

FYI, that thread linked in the first post is wrong; Clay's car had JRZ dampers, not Motons.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Personally, I'd rather spend $10k modifying a 135/335 and take the other $10+k and spend it on track days, lol.

personally, i like to take the opposite approach when the car is both my daily driver and HPDE toy. i keep the car stock and use the mod money to pay for hpde fees, tires, and more frequent oil changes

power adders eat into the safety margin that is engineered into the vehicle (cooling systems, component durability, etc), and in my opinion, a modded car that is very reliable on the street may not be as reliable on the track because of the heat buildup associated with 20-30minutes of sustained 10/10ths driving

i like the peace of mind and simplicity that comes from driving a stock car, but i can definitely see the appeal of 'cheap' speed that the 135/335 offer

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by Nick Nazareno

personally, i like to take the opposite approach when the car is both my daily driver and HPDE toy. i keep the car stock and use the mod money to pay for hpde fees, tires, and more frequent oil changes

power adders eat into the safety margin that is engineered into the vehicle (cooling systems, component durability, etc), and in my opinion, a modded car that is very reliable on the street may not be as reliable on the track because of the heat buildup associated with 20-30minutes of sustained 10/10ths driving

i like the peace of mind and simplicity that comes from driving a stock car, but i can definitely see the appeal of 'cheap' speed that the 135/335 offer

Point taken. But just a clarification - you'd spend the $45k on a 335i and keep it stock (and take the $10k mod money for track days) or you would spend the $70k on an M3 and keep it stock?

To be honest, I was pretty concerned with the twin turbo engine on track, especially modified. The suspension/driveline changes didn't really worry me much, but the higher boost did. But after 30 days (4 sessions a day, 20 minutes a session)------2400 minutes of track use haven't caused any mechanical issues.

After watching a few friends go through hell with BMW on failures of the stock E46 M3 engines, I'm wary of the M engines.