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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Vibration at highway speed (doubtful related to wheel balance) - please help



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      10-23-2020, 04:20 AM   #177
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It was the Steering Rack in my case. On my current E93 the steering rack was leaking hydraulic oil. The hydraulic oil pressure was low and that probably moved the wheels a bit which caused small vibrations on the steering wheel when driving.
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      10-23-2020, 10:18 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martynz View Post
It was the Steering Rack in my case. On my current E93 the steering rack was leaking hydraulic oil. The hydraulic oil pressure was low and that probably moved the wheels a bit which caused small vibrations on the steering wheel when driving.
Did you feel it in the seat and through the pedal as well?
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      10-23-2020, 03:34 PM   #179
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What wheel and tire sizes are you guys running? E90yyc our issues and journey seems very similar. I'm at a very similar point as you right now, thinking about doing bearing next.
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      10-30-2020, 07:11 PM   #180
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Solution was motor mounts. Explanation of problem below. One mount was collapsed, one was broken in half and could be rotated.

2007 BMW 335i sport package coupe E92. Put a JB4 on when the car had 30-50k miles, ran map 1 most of the time.

Finally seem to have it fixed, many shops couldn't figure it out. Problem started around 50k miles, had it since 30k, currently at 109k. Steering wheel would randomly start vibrating. Originally I had a square setup of BMW Style 189 wheels w/ Michelin PSS 255/35/18.

- Intensity in steering wheel varied from say the strength your phone vibrates at to a much heavier pulsating which could easily be seen by the passenger or picked up by the camera.

- Sometimes you wouldn't notice it for days. Some times it would be every 15 minutes.

- Sometimes you would feel it in the chassis by your feet and very rarely in the seat.

- Most often the vibration was best felt between 40-70.

- It would get less noticeable with speeds higher than that, been up to 120. However at the higher speeds if the vibration had just occurred the car would feel less stable, less planted and composed.

- Sometimes the steering wheel and car would feel different right after starting up the car, even at very low speeds a very tiny bit bump you could say (this part may just be in my head).

- Another thing I had noticed going over certain turns would trigger the vibration (70% of the time).

- Switching to a 225/45/17 Michelin X-Ice XI3 square setup w/ new wheels did not make a difference, until I bumped up the tire pressure to 40 PSI from 32 PSI. The vibration rarely occurred at this point, once a month I would say and the vibration was very light and only above 60MPH. Switched back to 18" Apex EC7 square 255/35/18 Michelin AS/3+ since I wanted to go to the track and the vibration was very bad no matter the tire pressure. And also they look really good. Why this resulted in the experienced vibrations we still don't know.

Here is what's been replaced (Only genuine BMW parts):
Front and rear shocks, mounts, bump stops, etc. OE Sachs.
Removed KW V3 coilovers
Front driver wheel bearing
Sway bar links and bushings front and rear
Control arms, tension struts, full tie rods
New wheels and tires
All brakes and rotors
Four-wheel alignment
Road force balanced
Motor mounts - Finally fixed it

It's only been a couple of hours since I got the car back, will post another update if problems still persist but car felt much more composed during fast lane changes and fast turns. And there is no vibration in the steering wheel at all.
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Last edited by ThatRWD; 10-30-2020 at 07:39 PM..
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      10-30-2020, 11:11 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatRWD View Post
Motor mounts - Finally fixed it
Glad you figured it out I've been following this since I have a similar issue, though I can feel the vibes every time from about 45-75 or so. Over that it's still there but not as noticeable. Also, if I don't use enough throttle when letting the clutch out from a stop I sometimes hear a high pitched chatter from the front which is making me think the engine mounts are shot (it's not clutch/flywheel chatter).
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      10-30-2020, 11:19 PM   #182
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I’m thinking tire pressure may affect it somewhat. Now that we have colder temperatures in Texas, the vibration is a little bit more diminished. It picks up right about 80+ when it used to be around 70.
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      11-04-2020, 09:06 PM   #183
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Lol so reporting here I took off my front axles and tried it and the car still vibrates the same. Steering wheel visibly shakes. Don't wanna have to try and have the wheels balanced once more
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      11-06-2020, 03:13 PM   #184
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Hey guys, I'm super-unhappy 540 owner. not 3 series, but the same maddening problem. Thank you for making me feel "not crazy" because half of the people I talk to, including my family, think I'm cuckoo. My car started vibrating some time after I bought it, I did hit few potholes and had to straighten the rims but after doing that and going through dozen of balances and rotations BMW refuses to do anything about it, they call it "normal". I don't know what else to do and where to go! If anyone found a single shop capable of diagnostic of those high speed vibrations please share the contact.
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      11-06-2020, 07:08 PM   #185
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That's what I'm trying to find. Maybe there's a shop that would put your car to run on a lift or has some kind of rolling road? No idea. I would gladly pay
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      11-08-2020, 02:36 PM   #186
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Describe your vibrations, what patterns have you noticed
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      11-15-2020, 09:02 PM   #187
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Hey so I wanted to update the thread on my issue. The highway vibration has almost completely gone away.

I recently removed my front cv axles thinking it was them but that did not change anything in the vibration. Then I went and checked under the car as I was gonna change some bushings and one of the sway bar link bolts had come off but the car vibrated with them on either way before so I bolted it back up. The links are new I guess I didn't torque that end. I replaced my worn out thrust arm bushings to a set of M3 bushings that were modified to fit into the xdrive arms and the vibration is gone. I only have a bit of steering wheel vibration left when doing 90/95-110 but I guess I shouldn't be up there anyway
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      11-16-2020, 01:50 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrydr310 View Post
Glad you figured it out I've been following this since I have a similar issue, though I can feel the vibes every time from about 45-75 or so. Over that it's still there but not as noticeable. Also, if I don't use enough throttle when letting the clutch out from a stop I sometimes hear a high pitched chatter from the front which is making me think the engine mounts are shot (it's not clutch/flywheel chatter).
Thanks ThatRWD for the update!

The timing of me seeing this couldn't be better. I was thinking that motor mounts might be due for replacing—they do have 200k miles on them—but wasn't sure if bad mounts could cause what I'm feeling.

Like you E92William, replacing my tension struts (or in your case, the bushings) fixed a big chunk of what I was feeling. I also did the control arms too because they were beyond merked.

Also, my rear tires were cupped and feathered pretty badly. Two new tires quieted things down and also fixed a big chunk of my vibration issues. At this point, I'm 99% certain what I'm feeling has nothing to do with my driveshaft.
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      11-16-2020, 02:53 PM   #189
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Well lol I drove the car a bit more today. While the vibration is a lot lower now, it is still there. Mostly on the floorboard but also a bit on the steering wheel
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      11-16-2020, 05:12 PM   #190
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Glad to have found this post. Just picked up a 2012 E92 330D, on the drive home it was unbelievable as soon as I hit 50mph, The car was shaking itself to bits, drove straight to the tyre shop and had all 4 tyres changed and wheels balanced, also had tracking checked and corrected.
Drove away happy with nothing felt at all on normal roads.
Back on the motorway today and above 60mph I can feel a mild vibration, 70-80mph it’s very noticeable, nothing through the steering, purely through the chassis - can feel it in the seat.
There’s no particular speed that it feels worse, it changes constantly, I find that I feel it more if I go up to speed and then let off the throttle.
I thought maybe wheels and I plan to change them anyway, so that’ll be my first job, I hoped that would fix it but reading through this I doubt that’ll be the case!
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      11-26-2020, 02:43 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikehaspey View Post
Glad to have found this post. Just picked up a 2012 E92 330D, on the drive home it was unbelievable as soon as I hit 50mph, The car was shaking itself to bits, drove straight to the tyre shop and had all 4 tyres changed and wheels balanced, also had tracking checked and corrected.
Drove away happy with nothing felt at all on normal roads.
Back on the motorway today and above 60mph I can feel a mild vibration, 70-80mph it’s very noticeable, nothing through the steering, purely through the chassis - can feel it in the seat.
There’s no particular speed that it feels worse, it changes constantly, I find that I feel it more if I go up to speed and then let off the throttle.
I thought maybe wheels and I plan to change them anyway, so that’ll be my first job, I hoped that would fix it but reading through this I doubt that’ll be the case!
Sorry, if this was already posted. But have you checked below:

- drive shaft (also check all bolts from front to rear)
- center support bearing
- flexdisc/guibo
- transmission mounts
- differential mounts
- front subframe mounts
- rear subframe mounts
- wheels checked for dents or wobble when spinning
- put some other wheels on the car if you can

If you go off the throttle that means the load or pressure is gone from engine/drive shaft and transmission but it is still spinning under the car.
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      11-26-2020, 03:12 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thormessiah View Post
Did you feel it in the seat and through the pedal as well?
No, there were only vibrations on the steering wheel and a huge dead zone when moving the steering wheel left/right.
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      11-28-2020, 07:21 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90yyc View Post
Car is 2007 328xi with 200k miles.

I've been having vibration issues for a while now, so here's a summary of what I've done. So far I've replaced parts that are clearly worn, but I'm at the point where I'm going to start looking for specific culprits in what might be causing my vibration issues.

What I've replaced/done so far:
  • Front and rear shocks, mounts, bump stops, etc. OE Sachs.
  • Front wheel bearings
  • Sway bar links and bushings front and rear
  • Control arms, tension struts, full tie rods (original tie rods were tight even at 200k miles, but I replaced anyway since I had parts)
  • New front tires (due to pothole impact, but vibration unchanged before/after)
  • Four-wheel alignment at dealership

Some of the shimmying I had was characteristic of worn tension struts, and replacing them definitely improved that greatly. But, I've still got some subtle vibration in the steering wheel and more noticeably in the seat at higher speeds. It seems most noticeable on new pavement—I suspect rougher surfaces "mask" the feeling better.

Further diagnostics:
  • Remove front driveshaft; inspect u-joints and drive vehicle without shaft installed to check for vibration
    U-joints seem tight with no play. I've been driving the vehicle without the driveshaft in for a couple months now and haven't noticed any difference in vibration. Car is more fun to drive though!
  • One key diagnostic test I did that I've seen only a few people mention here is to raise the car and run it up to speed. When I did this prior to removing my front driveshaft, I noticed a definite vibration at speed. I had removed my front wheels as well, so tire imbalance could not have been the culprit.
    The mistake I made here was not getting a helper to run the car while I looked/felt for the source of the vibration. Thinking the culprit might be the axles, I set my phone to record each side as I sat in the car and ran it, but didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I was in a time crunch so I just took off the driveshaft and won't be able to repeat the test until I reinstall the driveshaft (even with DSC off the car freaks out).

What's next?
  • Inspect all four brake calipers and rotors for sticking and uneven wear
  • Re-attach front driveshaft and have a helper run vehicle to highway speed with wheels in air while I look and check for vibrations
    I plan to take this test further by removing all four wheels in order to eliminate the possibility that a bad rim/tire is the culprit. I fully suspect the vibration to persist without the wheels on.
  • Inspect rear driveshaft, guibos, and center support bearing
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90yyc View Post
As promised, here's an update. Pasted and marked up from my post above.



Now what?
  • Replace front and rear flex discs (guibos)
    Done
  • Replace center support (full assembly incl. bearing)
    Done
  • Replace driveshaft end bushings (BMW calls these centring mounts)
    Only replaced one as it was an absolute bitch to replace, and I think the other would have been straight-up impossible.


I've obviously been dealing with multiple vibrations of different origins along the way, and thankfully have seen improvement as I've replaced parts (particularly control arms). If the driveshaft work I'm about to do doesn't take care of this vibration—and I'm fully expecting it will, given the vibration seems to be coming from the middle of the car and not through the steering wheel—then I really don't know what to look at next.

I'll provide another update once I'm done this work in a couple weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90yyc View Post
Thanks ThatRWD for the update!

The timing of me seeing this couldn't be better. I was thinking that motor mounts might be due for replacing—they do have 200k miles on them—but wasn't sure if bad mounts could cause what I'm feeling.

Like you E92William, replacing my tension struts (or in your case, the bushings) fixed a big chunk of what I was feeling. I also did the control arms too because they were beyond merked.

Also, my rear tires were cupped and feathered pretty badly. Two new tires quieted things down and also fixed a big chunk of my vibration issues. At this point, I'm 99% certain what I'm feeling has nothing to do with my driveshaft.
Another update:
  • Replaced the flex discs, center support (including bearing), and one of the end bushings.
    Frustratingly, this did not seem to solve the vibration. While the rear guibo was cracked and didn't look so great, the front looked damn near perfect.
    There was no noticeable play in the u-joint (this is an xDrive car so there's only one in the center, as well as two guibos)
    While I marked the driveshaft halves with a paint pen, somehow—and I feel like an idiot for allowing this to happen—my marks wore off to the point where I *think* I reassembled it correctly, but unfortunately am not 100% sure. That said, what I'm feeling doesn't really seem related to the driveshaft.
  • Replaced engine mounts and hardware.
    Even though they were original mounts and had over 200k miles on them, they looked really good and there was no cracking or unusual play.
    Replacing them hasn't made any noticeable difference, other than maybe a bit less vibration at idle.
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      11-28-2020, 07:49 PM   #194
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Have you checked the steering rack for play?
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      12-01-2020, 01:50 PM   #195
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Have you checked the steering rack for play?
Yes and I'm 99% sure it's shot.

There's a clunking noise when wiggling the steering wheel on center, and I'm fairly certain it's coming from the steering shaft. As you might know, there's a double u-joint right above where it splines to the rack. When I took my shaft out to inspect it (steering shaft, to be clear ), the rubber boot protecting the ball joint linkage that sits between the two u-joints was torn and the ball joint was probably contaminated. I'm not 100% certain the steering shaft is what's causing the clunking, but I'm leaning that way. I actually lubed the ball joint with some grease and the clunking was no longer audible for a couple months, but it's back now. So really I guess that's my answer isn't it?

As for the rack itself, it's making a faint grinding noise. And while its not binding, leaking, or showing any major signs of failure, it's clearly in need of replacement. There's also some wandering at highway speeds, but it's hard to what part of it's due to steering shaft play and what part is due to rack.

Do you think this could be causing what I'm describing? I'm sure a bad rack can cause vibration, I just figured what I was feeling was more chassis related as I feel it most through the seat, but I do feel something through the wheel as well...
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      06-11-2021, 03:45 PM   #196
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bump
Bump. I'm having this issue now too. Anyone ever find a solution?
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      07-24-2021, 10:15 AM   #197
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Wow, so this has been a long time running issue with these cars. It just started on my e92 XI the other day. Long story short - all the same symptoms as most of the people who posted here
around 45-50 after driving at that speed for a few minutes, the car will start to vibrate. Speeding up doesn't help, letting off the gas doesn't help, hitting the brakes makes it a bit more of an aggressive shake.
Shaking is not felt through the steering wheel
shaking stops if i bring the car to a complete stop, then start moving again. Will resume once i hit the same speeds
Took off the wheels and noticed my right rear rotor is scorched and the caliper is seized. Once the parts come in, I'll update everyone on whether or not this fixed the problem but at this moment I'm quite confident that in my case, it's this seized caliper.

Parts ordered
Right rear and left rear calipers
Inner and outer brake hoses for both sides
new rotors and pads/sensor

Total parts bill - approx $600 w shipping
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      07-27-2021, 01:53 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martynz View Post
It was the Steering Rack in my case. On my current E93 the steering rack was leaking hydraulic oil. The hydraulic oil pressure was low and that probably moved the wheels a bit which caused small vibrations on the steering wheel when driving.
I've followed this thread for a while but just now noticed this post from last year!!!!

Whenever I'm working under my car with the tray removed I noticed a few drop of power steering fluid on the hose loop that runs under the water pump. It's not gushing out and not dripping down on the tray, but it's there on the hose. I wonder if this has something to do with it? I can't find out where it's coming from.

Was your fluid leaking out of the rack itself?
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