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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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DIY: E90 Oil Pan Gasket and Subframe Drop
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01-11-2016, 06:07 AM | #45 | ||
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in an earlier post on this thread I asked OP about support bars and he preferred the three point variety, so I thought I'd revisit with my experience, after you mentioned your setup. |
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01-11-2016, 11:15 AM | #46 | ||
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JUST A PAIN IN THE A__ to deal with. I'd have to say it was the most difficult part of the job.
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01-11-2016, 05:02 PM | #47 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-11-2016 at 08:51 PM.. |
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01-11-2016, 05:03 PM | #48 |
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Thanks.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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01-13-2016, 11:57 AM | #49 |
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I'm going to do this job this weekend, does anyone know if the wheels NEED to be removed for this job? I'm always paranoid working under my car and like to have the added security of wheels and ramps in addition to jacks.
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01-13-2016, 12:44 PM | #50 | |
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For this project, I decided to treat myself to two new sets of 6 ton OTC jack stands. In addition to the excess load capacity, I was able to achieve 17" of clearance from the underside of the car, letting the ratchet bar simply rest on the stand frame for all 4 stands (along with hockey pucks). There was no way the car was going anywhere. Bigger capacity stands also provides higher minimum height, which was helpful for this job. |
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01-13-2016, 12:45 PM | #51 | |
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01-13-2016, 02:15 PM | #52 | |
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01-13-2016, 02:57 PM | #53 | |
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For this job, the redundancy opportunities would include (in addition to 4 jack stands) supporting the rear with your jack (either rear subframe or diff) and maybe the transmission bracket? Not many options up front since you're lowering or removing the front sub-frame. |
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01-16-2016, 01:46 PM | #54 |
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My 2011 E90's oil pan started leaking in November. Had the car since 9k and the odometer just rolled over to 114k. I bought all the parts from the dealer and am looking to do the job myself. I'm just waiting to find the right weekend to get it done. The only thing that bothers me is the steering rack as I don't want to mess with it.
KrashFinatik or Efthreeoh, did you guys have to unbolt the rack from the subframe or did you leave it in place? What about the lower and upper steering column joints? Did you have to unbolt them?
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01-16-2016, 07:32 PM | #55 | |
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IT IS SO INCREDIBLY SIMPLE! The Tech said just hit it quickly with a flat-blade screw driver. That's what I did today. It popped off in 1/2 a second.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-18-2016 at 04:25 AM.. |
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01-17-2016, 06:52 AM | #56 | |
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Here's some added tips to KrasFinatik's excellent DIY. 1) CLEAN around the lower engine block BEFORE you unbolt and remove the oil pan. I'm a dumbass sometimes. 2) On the 325i models with an oil return line, all you need to do to remove the line from the oil pan tube is hit it upwards with a large flat-blade screwdriver. I placed the blade on the lip of the connector and hit the end of the screwdriver with a swift hit of a ball peen hammer. 3) To ease the removal of the oil pan you need to raise the front of the engine about 2 - 3 inches. Doing it over again, at the start, I would unbolt the engine mounts, then raise the engine the 2 to 3 inches, then set the engine bar in place with the engine in the lifted position. 4) On the manual transmission cars, there are three (3) E-12 torx bolts that hold the transmission to the engine backing plate. They are not structural and are steel (i.e. reusable). Back out these three bolts to give room to remove the oil pan. They get in the way trying to drop the pan at the rear of the engine. Two of the bolts affix a bracket to the transmission. The bracket holds the connectors for the O2 sensors. Remove the bracket and pull it backwards out of the way. 5) I like the idea of grinding down the diameter of the tow hook so it seats farther into the threaded hole in the head. 6) There is a plastic coolant line that runs across the front of the subframe. It is a heater hose that goes to the heater core. It is screwed to the subframe at three (3) locations by torx screws. I recommend that this hose be freed from the subframe because it allows the subframe to drop another few inches and takes the stress off the hoses. 7) Don't be afraid to drastically pull and tug on the subframe once it is loose. It can be moved around quite a bit. 8) The gasket is made of rubber and metal. It will be stuck to the pan when you remove the pan. Pry up the metal gasket at the back of the pan and it will start to peel away. The rubber part of the gasket will be hard and brittle and stuck to the pan. I used a heat gun to soften it up. I recommend using a gasket removal tool (available at most auto parts stores) to remove the gasket. A good gasket removal tool is made of metal and looks like a small paint scraper. 9) No one brought it up, but I was wondering... I used Permatex Black gasket maker when I reinstalled the gasket. I don't think it is necessary and the gasket looks like it has some sort of glue on the surface that probably sets over time once the engine heats it up. That said, I don't plan on going in to replace the gasket again (my car will probably die before it leaks again), so I used a good deal of P-tex on the gasket. 10) Retorquing the bolts. I bought a 1/4 drive torque wrench just for this job. I found that after I snugged down the new pan bolts using a 1/4-drive ratchet, then putting the torque wrench to it, the bolts had already hit the 8 ft./lb. point. The specs call for torquing to 8 ft./lb. then another 90 deg. I ended up just torquing them by feel. They are aluminum bolts, so don't over torque them. Some observations: So my pan started leaking round 190,000 miles or so. It started leaking at the right rear corner near the bell housing. It seems this is where they all start to leak. I think I know why, which is why I decided to P-tex the new gasket. The oil windage tray on the bottom of the engine (you'll see it once the pan is out) spans almost the entire width of the bottom of the engine block. Being that the engine is slanted in position in the car, the windage tray lets oil drip right on to the gap between the bottom of the block and the oil pan. It's at an angle, so the oil just sits on the gap and eventually seeps through the gasket once the gasket hardens up. That's my thought anyway. If your gasket is leaking, don't let it go as long as I did (100,000 miles). The problem is (and I discovered it when I just replaced my clutch a few weeks ago) the rear of the engine block where the pan gap is protrudes into the bell housing behind the flywheel. The clutch pressure plate has fan blades cut into it for cooling the clutch. Once the pan starts leaking, the fan action draws the leaking oil from the pan and spins it all over the inside of the bell housing and just makes a complete mess. Worst off the oil mess will lead you to think the rear crank seal is leaking. Mine was perfectly dry. Hope this helps.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-18-2016 at 04:24 AM.. |
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01-17-2016, 07:22 AM | #57 |
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You have to remove the wheels or the subframe will not drop far enough. You can't have the car on ramps on the front wheels. Just get four good flat-top stands and put them under the lifting blocks on the sides of the car. The car will sit on stands under the lifting blocks for a 100 years and not fall off.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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01-17-2016, 08:53 AM | #58 | |
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01-18-2016, 09:08 PM | #59 | ||
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01-22-2016, 01:47 PM | #60 |
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Nope, manuals. My '06 325i has three E12 Torx bolts that thread through the backing plate on the engine block. The two lower bolts hold a bracket at the bottom of the bell housing. The 3rd bolt is on the left side of the bell housing near the slave cylinder. The bolts protrude far enough to get in the way of dropping the rear of the pan freely. At least on my car anyway.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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01-23-2016, 02:49 PM | #61 | |
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I'm thinking remove the subframe. replace this gasket, washout if I can a few areas of oil, dirt etc. Then proceed to work on Suspension bits etc. I know of removing the brake lines (May replace those) Just want to know if its easier to work with the subframe off the car per say. FYI car does not have xdrive.
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01-23-2016, 03:05 PM | #62 | ||
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01-23-2016, 04:40 PM | #63 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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01-23-2016, 06:00 PM | #64 | |
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01-24-2016, 04:32 PM | #65 |
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Thanks for this very helpful thread. I did the job on my 2007 328i this weekend. A few things that may help others in the future:
1. You'll see some other threads about trying to do this without dropping the subframe, by cutting the gasket, etc. That's some seriously bad advice. First, there's no way to ensure that nothing will drop into the oil pan while you are doing this. And there's a good chance junk will drop in there. If it does, there's no way to get it out, because there will be at least a half quart of oil left in the bottom of the pan that the junk will drop into. Second, not dropping the subframe will make the job longer and harder. Everything is harder to get to with the subframe in place. And dropping it is only a few bolts, it's very quick and easy, both to get it down and to get it back up. In the context of this job, not dropping the subframe doesn't safe time. I've been wrenching for 30 years and love shortcuts, but not dropping the subframe isn't a shortcut, is a crazy hack and is bad advice. 2. The OP must have a Turbo (??), with oil return line going to the oil pan. There was no oil return line attached to my '07 328i pan. 3. The OP must also be a manual trans. For those of us with automatics, there's 2 oil cooler lines that run right near the upper row of oil pan bolts and is attached to the pan with 2 brackets and 10mm nuts. Makes it a little bit of a pain to get to those bolts. 4. My car didn't have the angle sensor on the control arm, as shown in the original post. 5. On my car, there's a hard coolant line that is attached to the front of the subframe, it's connected with a soft hose to the water pump and held to the subframe by 2 Torx bolts. This needs to be detached from the subframe, otherwise it doesn't drop down far enough to easily remove the oil pan. 6. I used a regular, straight engine support bar (not the 3 prong one like in the original post). It worked fine. Any engine support bar is going to be way overkill, since they are designed to hold engines that aren't attached to the transmission, which puts the full weight of the engine on it. Since we're not removing the trans, the bar isn't holding much weight. 7. You're gonna need a good selection of extensions and wobble joints to get to all the oil pan bolts. 8. There's nothing hard about the job. It does take some time, though, just given the number of bolts and screw that need to be undone. Between the plastic shields under the car, the oil pan bolts, etc., it's dozens of screws, nuts, bolts that need to be undone. Nothing hard, just a little time consuming. 9. I didn't take the front wheels off, didn't need to. 10. My car had 58,000 miles on it. The bolts were still tight, but the gasket was leaking in numerous spots. 11. The factory didn't use any sealant (that I could see) on the gasket. I went back an forth on whether to use it. On the one hand, the factory didn't use it. But on the other hand, the factory job started leaking in 50K miles. I decided to use a thin layer of Dirko (a German RTV sealant used by BMW and MB) on both sides of the gasket. We'll see if that was a good decision in the long run. Anyways, thanks for a great writeup! It was very helpful. |
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01-24-2016, 04:34 PM | #66 | |
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