[MGT81]

Yup, sort of. Especially after learning that a manual won’t be available in the new 3-series

[John 070]

Originally Posted by AllBlackBimmer

I wonder this every time I drop my car off for work- usually a BMW dealer or a BMW-specific Indy shop.
I always think, they send some 18year old kid out there, he gets in, and doesn't even know how the start my car, let alone drive a stick without burning up the clutch.
I also sometimes wonder if they take turns driving it, because it is a stick, or use it as a test vehicle to "see who can drive a stick"
... I am somewhat joking, but also somewhat serious.
I love my manual and yes automatics are great nowadays, are faster, more reliable, cheaper, etc, etc etc.... but there is no replacement for the amount of engagement having 3 real pedals gives you. Knowing you can "money shift" your car and absolutely trash the transmission. And rowing through the gears on a spirited back-road drive.
The fact that the new 3-series doesn't offer a stick is crazy to think. I can only imagine if they pull this with the new M3... Which, in a reality is inevitable to happen.

#SAVETHEMANUALS

...where in PA are you? What dealer do you use?

lol I bought my car from the dealer that is closest to the city (Phila), but I had had enough this Dec. They have "the" best location hands down, but have had an attitude as long as I have owned my 335i, so since 12/06. I can't recommend them at all. Then, I work in NJ--I can't recommend that dealer either, terrible, the one that is in a place where the first word of the town is "Mount," and the second word in the town beings with a L and the second and third letters are "au."

The one that I have never had a problem at and you can get a loaner tomorrow, is in Doylestown. Was it smart to drive 38 miles and not 4, to get my state inspection? Maybe not, but my buddy who knows all the details said he would have done the same..... lol

I kid you not because I am emissions exempt, the inspection was like $24 plus tax. Nuts. You know how they say you can't choose your in-laws and relatives? You can't seem to choose where the good BMW dealers are in relation to where you live.

Now since I have owned a Lexus since 2016, I can tell you on a scale of 100, their customer service is about a 95. BUT, their work is about a 40, and the prices are stupid expensive! If only you could combine the best of the two cos.

But as mentioned, I really lament the no stick available on new cars. If they say no more sticks on Corvettes and 911s, I dunno what to say to that!

[neilvan]

One of the reasons I got mine (I also only drive manual) and my father got his.

Its a reasonably well designed and sporty chassis/car with a 6spd and RWD + the option of no tech/nav/driver assist packages. Good luck finding anything like that past 2010


The one thing I don't get is the cars that are still being offered as manual are the base models. Generally the people still buying manual want the better engine/more HP and the sport packages etc. Why not just offer a manual on the higher version/sport models(and wagon too please).

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by neilvan

One of the reasons I got mine (I also only drive manual) and my father got his.

Its a reasonably well designed and sporty chassis/car with a 6spd and RWD + the option of no tech/nav/driver assist packages. Good luck finding anything like that past 2010


The one thing I don't get is the cars that are still being offered as manual are the base models. Generally the people still buying manual want the better engine/more HP and the sport packages etc. Why not just offer a manual on the higher version/sport models(and wagon too please).

BMW thinks that the ONLY buyers who want an antiquated 3-pedal manual transmission car where you have to put down your phone to drive, are M-car owners. There are some long-time BMW brand aficionados who don't need to measure their dick with the 13th letter of the alphabet and don't want to spend $70K on a car that is over-powered for street use, they just like the art of manually shifting gears...

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW thinks that the ONLY buyers who want an antiquated 3-pedal manual transmission car that you have to put down your phone to drive are M-car owners. There are some long-time BMW brand afficinados who don't need to measure their dick with the 13th letter of the alphabet and don't want to spend $70K on a car that is over-powered for street use, they just like the art of manually shifting gears...

My point was more of say a 340i with a sport package vs absolute base model/base options

Only 2 "luxury" brands now still sell manuals. Audi just dropped theirs so it is Cadillac and Genesis. Sadly the genesis only comes manual in the 2.0T and not the 3.3T. The ATS comes manual in the 2.0T and the ATS-V but I expect them to drop manuals by the next model update.

[scotty2293]

Well I am keeping my 6 Speed 328 Xi Wagon M sport .... the perfect all rounder in my opinion

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by neilvan

My point was more of say a 340i with a sport package vs absolute base model/base options

Only 2 "luxury" brands now still sell manuals. Audi just dropped theirs so it is Cadillac and Genesis. Sadly the genesis only comes manual in the 2.0T and not the 3.3T. The ATS comes manual in the 2.0T and the ATS-V but I expect them to drop manuals by the next model update.

The G20 will be devoid of a manual in the US. Even in Europe, as you state, it will be the 316/320 that will have a manual.

I think Cadillac and now Genisis have both made a marketing error not spec'ing a manual for the ATS and G70. Had the ATS came with a manual with the NA V6, I would have bought one in 2013.

[sleepydinosaur]

Originally Posted by vbp6us

DCT > *

Single ratio gearbox > complex automated gearbox

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by neilvan

My point was more of say a 340i with a sport package vs absolute base model/base options

Only 2 "luxury" brands now still sell manuals. Audi just dropped theirs so it is Cadillac and Genesis. Sadly the genesis only comes manual in the 2.0T and not the 3.3T. The ATS comes manual in the 2.0T and the ATS-V but I expect them to drop manuals by the next model update.

It's not a luxury brand, but I was interested in the new Mazda 6 until I learned that the manual is only available in the base model with the naturally aspirated engine. If the new Accord rear end was not so ugly I would be driving an Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT right now but that alone is preventing me from buying one.

[F30lolz]

Yes I’m hanging onto my manual 335 until the wheels fall off. Not my DD and it’s garage kept so hope that will prolong its life. In about 20 years from now (maybe way less) there will be no new cars offered with a conventional manual as it is indeed a dying breed.

And don’t get me started on self driving cars going to be mandated in the future (most likely not in my lifetime) so I’ll be glad that I’ll be six feeet under for that crap.

[krhodes1]

I'm pretty done with buying new cars in general. I prefer manuals strongly, and I like wagons that aren't on stilts. I have *zero* use for AWD in a car that will never leave the pavement. I have a near perfect set of cars already, and put less than 10K a year on across all five of them. At 50, I could probably never buy another car again if I wanted. Literally the ONLY new car on the market I have any interest in is the Cayman, but I just can't quite bring myself to spend that much money on a car so single-purpose. Came close as my 50th birthday present to myself, but can't quite do it.

[aamodtpw]

In my case, it's fair to say that I actually bought my E92 last year because of a lack of new ones (manual + hydraulic steering).

But yes, especially with recent MT eliminations among cars I would consider, it's fair to say that I am most likely out of the new-car market altogether and keeping at least my newer cars (this BMW and a 2005 MBZ 6MT) going as long as possible. Fortunately, I drive 'em till they drop anyway and have hit 320K on my oldest car ('97 Audi 5MT), so I know what the really long haul looks like (and costs). Parts, legal gas, and absence of catastrophic fails are all I need.

[lab_rat]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The G20 will be devoid of a manual in the US. Even in Europe, as you state, it will be the 316/320 that will have a manual.

I think Cadillac and now Genisis have both made a marketing error not spec'ing a manual for the ATS and G70. Had the ATS came with a manual with the NA V6, I would have bought one in 2013.

IIRC, Genesis planned to offer the G70 with a manual - but will only available on the "sport" trim...which only has the 4 cylinder turbo (no 6 cylinder w/manual option).

Yep...I really should keep my 330i (ZMT/ZSP/ZPP).

I have a feeling (at least with enthusiasts) BMWs built with such a build combo might start to creep up in value in the near future, thanks to the new G series 3er.

[Bob Shiftright]

I think the M2 M3 M4 and M6 are still available with manuals.

I gotta applaud BMW marketing! They went from getting people to pay $1000 for an automatic transmission to getting people to pay $25,000 to $50,000 if they want to shift for themselves! Genius!

As for me -- my BMW has close to 30K miles so it should last for a few more years. I usually try to keep my cars as long as I can.

If I needed a new car tomorrow -- VW and Honda are still keeping the faith, for now at least. The Hyundai Genesis G70 manual looks interesting but I haven't even seen one.

I have 213K on my '98 Volvo T5 5-speed wagon. I just replaced the clutch pedal for the second or third time this morning. (It still has it's original clutch.) A little secret is that cars with manuals seem to last a lot longer than the autoshifters do.

The mileage difference between my cars is because I began telecommuting right before I bought the BMW.

[tlow98]

You could prolly just find one on eBay for your make and model. Sort of like touch up paint. Or just google the sections you want to read. There’s prolly a TIF somewhere

[dleccord]

I am the original owner of my 07 335 with production date of 10/06 I bought it directly from the production floor and it was one of the very first 335I manuals in the US. It now has 168K miles on it, and I plan to do marathon maintenance on the car this spring since it had some oil leaks and need new shocks and stuff, I want to keep this car running well since it is joy to drive.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by John 070

lol I bought my car from the dealer that is closest to the city (Phila), but I had had enough this Dec. They have "the" best location hands down, but have had an attitude as long as I have owned my 335i, so since 12/06. I can't recommend them at all. Then, I work in NJ--I can't recommend that dealer either, terrible, the one that is in a place where the first word of the town is "Mount," and the second word in the town beings with a L and the second and third letters are "au."

The one that I have never had a problem at and you can get a loaner tomorrow, is in Doylestown. Was it smart to drive 38 miles and not 4, to get my state inspection? Maybe not, but my buddy who knows all the details said he would have done the same..... lol

I kid you not because I am emissions exempt, the inspection was like $24 plus tax. Nuts. You know how they say you can't choose your in-laws and relatives? You can't seem to choose where the good BMW dealers are in relation to where you live.

Now since I have owned a Lexus since 2016, I can tell you on a scale of 100, their customer service is about a 95. BUT, their work is about a 40, and the prices are stupid expensive! If only you could combine the best of the two cos.

But as mentioned, I really lament the no stick available on new cars. If they say no more sticks on Corvettes and 911s, I dunno what to say to that!

Welcome to Doylestown and I can tell the dealer was not always great, much better today but when order and I bough my 335i on 10/06 at NJ dealer since the local one would not deal and wanted to sell me the AT on the lots I went elsewhere. Then when I went to have it service they gave me crap since I did not buy it there even though it was still under the warranty and maintenance. When BMWNA call to ask about my experience I told them my Ford dealer treated me better. After that the experience has been better but the SA's have no ideas about the cars and they treat people which most people who shop in Doylestown fit which is they have not clues about cars.

What I did learn later the Dtown dealer does not deal since they give you lots of extras, like free towing, free loaner cars for any of the dealerships, they will come and pick up and drop off you car when you need, free state inspection for any of your cars (yeah they trying to find things wrong to charge you $130/hr to fix), not emission. They are other things they will do. If you see value in this then its is probably worth paying full price.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by dleccord

I am the original owner of my 07 335 with production date of 10/06 I bought it directly from the production floor and it was one of the very first 335I manuals in the US. It now has 168K miles on it, and I plan to do marathon maintenance on the car this spring since it had some oil leaks and need new shocks and stuff, I want to keep this car running well since it is joy to drive.

is there a reason you quoted me and did not say anything?

[09Monaco335i]

Is it just the US/NA market where they are no longer offering manual transmission on the 3-series? What about in Europe? If manual transmission is still offered in Europe, I wonder if US/NA customers could order one via the European Delivery Program? (i.e. purchase in Germany, then ship to the US)

https://www.bmwusa.com/european-delivery.html

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 09Monaco335i

Is it just the US/NA market where they are no longer offering manual transmission on the 3-series? What about in Europe? If manual transmission is still offered in Europe, I wonder if US/NA customers could order one via the European Delivery Program? (i.e. purchase in Germany, then ship to the US)

https://www.bmwusa.com/european-delivery.html

It would have to pass US crash standards. Since BMW is not going to crash test the manual transmission version in the US, you couldn't import it from Germany until 2044.

[OTO335i]

Great topic actually! It's quite sad to see the manual transmission dying in north America. This is the reason why I'm having so much trouble wanting to part with my car, I've never owned an automatic car in the 12+ cars I've owned and as much as i find my 335 not practical i still want to keep it just because its manual and it's a blast to drive. I've been debating getting rid of it but if i do, the chances are that my next car would be a subaru legacy 3.6r which isn't available in manual at all.. And I'm not sure im ready for that yet!

[gde061]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It would have to pass US crash standards. Since BMW is not going to crash test the manual transmission version in the US, you couldn't import it from Germany until 2044.

The other impediment is the EPA regulatory stuff about mandatory gas mileage. I don't know the exact details -- i.e., whether it's an actual REAL difference, or just an administrative rule the government technocrats cooked up -- but I was told by the Subaru dealer when we went to lease my wife a legacy that the reason you can't get a M/T in the USA is that they won't certify the gas mileage.

To me that makes not too much sense, because M/T's were always given slightly better gas mileage ratings in "average" conditions that the A/T counterpart. But that was back in the days before they were putting 10-speed gearboxes in the A/T, and a six speed manual overdrive was more efficient obviously than a 4-speed auto.

It also makes not too much sense because seriously a Subaru legacy isn't exactly a gas guzzler. But maybe they don't want to deal with the hassle of doing a separate EPA certification, which probably costs $$$ to the company, like the crash test ratings. And the ultimate killer of the M/T is the "investment" in self driving technology. All that "auto shut-off" for red light (complete garbage feature having had it on a rental, just wanted keep rolling at every stop sign... the code that runs this stuff was written by city boys who probably don't even have a drivers licence!) and adaptive cruise control... they don't work unless the computer has control over the gearbox.

As for having a manual, it's the only reason I got my E92. While it's true they can make "sport" autos that shift faster, I think most paddle shifters are crappy and slow to shift. It is most apparent when you are driving an underpowered family car, wanting to get more torque on a hill or in a corner, and the fat whale car wants to put top priority on your MPG's. Gas is freaking cheap and global warming scientists have the credibility of PT Barnum in my book for doing all kinds of crooked stuff with their data and thug type stuff to their peers. I just traded a 22 MPG 2007 car for a 2015 mini-van that gets 14 MPG. And nobody is buying minivans because they are buying 10 MPG 3-row SUV's. But you can't get a light car with a manual because it's going to end the world with *unknown* fuel consumption. BTW, you can get the legacy with the M/T in Canada, but if you bring it to the USA, they won't honor the warranty.