[Hunter3]

So I'm sure some of you have heard the rumors of pure doing a stage 3 for our n55 platform... today it has been confirmed they are going with a pure800 upgrade just like the newer generations are getting ! That's so awesome pure is a great company and always kills it with these things. Now I know it's just speculation as of now since we don't have a dyno or any logs. But the details they have put out look super impressive 800+ hp. Now my question remains this... I purchased a PS2 recently.. before this announcement... is it worth it to keep and install the PS2 or should I wait and just go for the 800... I'm fbo on a 2013 e92 335xi and I'm just wondering if with the same mods it will surly produce more power so I'm stuck in a hard place... any suggestions !?

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

So I'm sure some of you have heard the rumors of pure doing a stage 3 for our n55 platform... today it has been confirmed they are going with a pure800 upgrade just like the newer generations are getting ! That's so awesome pure is a great company and always kills it with these things. Now I know it's just speculation as of now since we don't have a dyno or any logs. But the details they have put out look super impressive 800+ hp. Now my question remains this... I purchased a PS2 recently.. before this announcement... is it worth it to keep and install the PS2 or should I wait and just go for the 800... I'm fbo on a 2013 e92 335xi and I'm just wondering if with the same mods it will surly produce more power so I'm stuck in a hard place... any suggestions !?

Honestly I was surprised that they didn't post it here yesterday. They didn't indicate if it would be a twin scroll or single scroll. If it is a single scroll then the turbo lag COULD be pretty noticeable coming from the PS2. It is all speculation until more information is given. To me it seems like each product has a different target audience. If you want the most power you can make and are ready for the fuel system upgrades then the Pure800 is your option. Really if you plan to be above 20 psi all the time then I would say the Pure800 might be your best bet due to the less restrictive manifold (less back pressure).

I do think it sucks for people that want the 800 and just bought the stage 2 but they have been hinting that something is coming which IMO is all they should need to do. If someone bought the PS2 and wants something bigger right afterwards then the PS2 wasn't really what they wanted to begin with.

I am very excited to follow their progress and see their results. They also went on to say that they are planning cast manifolds for more of their current hybrid turbos.

For anyone else that didn't see their Facebook post...

"We are proud to offer a sneak peek at
The N55 Pure 800 !
The N55 P800 is a new turbocharger designed by Pure, to offer N55 enthusiasts 800+HP of capacity, in a direct bolt in package for N55 PWG and EWG cars.
-No core charge.
-Direct bolt in fit.
-In house designed, not a stock turbo replica like other options.
-Compressor housing – 0.70 A/R
-Turbine housing – 0.80 A/R
-Wastegate flow capacity greatly increased for precise boost control
-Ball bearing and journal bearing options.
-PWG cars will require a special DP supplied by ER.
-PWG configuration is compatible with our HD N55 Actuator or pressure based actuators for high boost applications.
-EWG configuration works with the OE E-actuator or pressure based actuator
We do expect it to fit RHD and AWD cars, though we have not physically test fitted yet. Current test car is a 135i DCT.
This is one of many new casted turbochargers coming soon from Pure Turbos Inc. We will soon follow with dyno testing results, datalogs, more pics, pricing, etc.
Shown in the pics, is a 67mm sized turbo, PWG configuration, with our HD Actuator. The kit will include the compressor inlet hose, as well as compressor discharge hose.
Thank you to all our supporters!
We could not do this without you!"

[Hunter3]

@Turbod see that's where my problem is !! I purchased the PS2 earlier this month I still don't even have it yet so no testing no feel of the power and then they announce this big boy. Which I know they were hinting at but no one knew when it was coming. My problem is if with the same exact mods this turbo will produce better than the ps2 why not get the 800 and have a lot of room to grow ? Tried emailing Jimmy over there to get his opinion if I should just cancel the ps2 and wait for the 800. Also you make a great point will it be single or twin... I can't imagine it would be much different then the other pure800 they make for the 340 would it ?

[Ozzie335i]

Expect 6 grand or more for it, supporting hardware, and the installation costs.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Hunter3

@Turbod see that's where my problem is !! I purchased the PS2 earlier this month I still don't even have it yet so no testing no feel of the power and then they announce this big boy. Which I know they were hinting at but no one knew when it was coming. My problem is if with the same exact mods this turbo will produce better than the ps2 why not get the 800 and have a lot of room to grow ? Tried emailing Jimmy over there to get his opinion if I should just cancel the ps2 and wait for the 800. Also you make a great point will it be single or twin... I can't imagine it would be much different then the other pure800 they make for the 340 would it ?

So my V2 PS2 spooled at 2,800 rpm. The V3 I have right now, I am going to start tuning myself, doesn't spool until almost 4k. I think most people report around 3,000 - 3,200 spool for the PS2. Since raising the redline isn't something that is commonly done on this platform you're just loosing more of the powerband. Since the data on the Pure 800 isn't out yet, I will remain optimistic. I would hope the price point would be right at $4,000 but we will see.

I think there are two types of people. People that want to make more power but don't want to be anywhere near the limits of the engine. There are people that only want to run pump gas vs higher octane fuels. Then there are people that just want to make the most power they can. They will be happy to spend $2,500 - $3,000 on fuel system upgrades and run high ethanol blends. Where do you land in this?

[NRigs]

Isn't pure already selling 800 kits for the B58 for $2,500? Why would they they charge more for a 800 kit for the N55?

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by NRigs

Isn't pure already selling 800 kits for the B58 for $2,500? Why would they they charge more for a 800 kit for the N55?

The B58 Pure 800 is a PS2. They just aren't calling it a PS2. It still uses the factory manifold.

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

With the images provides it's unclear whether its a single or twin scroll. By purely seeing the outside of the manifold and how all the pipes merge, it hints towards a single scroll, at least in my head, but the given images of the manifold are pretty deceiving and we can't affirm anything.

[135 TING]

Originally Posted by NRigs

Isn't pure already selling 800 kits for the B58 for $2,500? Why would they they charge more for a 800 kit for the N55?

That's what I was thinking!
They might end up lowering the ps2 price. Or if not i would assume it would be 3,000-3,500. Just to compete with big boost

[NRigs]

Originally Posted by Turbod

The B58 Pure 800 is a PS2. They just aren't calling it a PS2. It still uses the factory manifold.

If that is the case, the B58 is even more of a beast to get up close to 600 whp with a PS2 on just pump gas.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Looking forward to the Pure 800s results

[anjuna]

This is single scroll...

Would love to get my hands on one....

[jlegelis]

Hunter3 like Turbod said, you really need to first determine what you are trying to accomplish... a 420HP PS2 daily driver setup on pump 93 is a very different setup from an 800hp drag monster. Everything is a tradeoff: durability vs. power vs convenience vs cost, and there are no easy answers especially when you are contemplating a 2.6x increase in horsepower and the knock-on effects it will have on... everything. At those levels it becomes a science project. My strong guidance is to start with a proven setup and continuously improve from there as the barriers make themselves known. Good luck and write down some goals rather than just blindly purchasing parts.

[N55Jamaican]

[Ozzie335i]

Anything over 500 or so at the tail end will merely spin the wheels all that much easier. And as jlegelis mentioned, has a lot of trade offs. One big thing is that you can come here and brag about more he man power. But the next time you pop the clutch, something else yet will break.

[Turbod]

Update!

"Here's a quick info update on the
N55 P800 Turbo Kit;
Pricing:
N55 P800 JB - $2995
Includes turbo, inlet snout, inlet hose, charge hose, PWG includes HD actuator.
N55 P800 BB - $3595
Includes turbo, inlet snout, inlet hose, charge hose, oil/cool line kit, PWG includes HD actuator.
If you trade-in your used PS2, we can offer $1000 credit towards the purchase of the N55 P800."

[Spooly]

Originally Posted by Turbod

Update!"

Hear anything about the required ER DP for PWG cars, from your post it sounds like it'll be extra?
This pricing actually sounds somewhat reasonable although I'm not looking to make more than ~500whp...

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by WantsToBuyA335

Hear anything about the required ER DP for PWG cars, from your post it sounds like it'll be extra?
This pricing actually sounds somewhat reasonable although I'm not looking to make more than ~500whp...

I just copy and pasted what they posted. You do bring up a good point however as I don't see it listed as part of the kit and their original post said it was needed. I don't see anything listed on ER's site about it.

[sbuchana12]

What is the difference between journal and ball bearing? Does it really matter?

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by sbuchana12

What is the difference between journal and ball bearing? Does it really matter?

There is a lot of information about the differences out there. I don't feel confident that I could cover all of them in a response here and would end up copying information from different sources. If you just Google the difference you will find a plethora of information.

Without seeing any dyno plots side by side, I would opt for the ball bearing option.

[sbuchana12]

Hmmm after doing some reading it seems if you want all out performance and faster spool then ball bearing is for you. If you want reliability and less wear on the internals at high boost, then journal is for you.

I might go with Journal TBH.

[TheGoodTheBadTheUgly]

On an engineering standpoint, ball bearings have lower friction losses than a journal bearing. Journal bearings rely on a hydrodynamic forces that are exerted between inner walls of the journal and the rotating shaft. The gap between these two surfaces will be filled with oil which provides the pressure forces necessary to separate the bearing surface from the journal. Since oil is a viscous fluid and because of the no slip boundary conditions on both surfaces this results in some inevitable friction forces that reduce as the hydrodynamic pressure around the shaft equilibrate themselves. Hard to explain, but to equalize the pressure forces around the journal, the shaft has to have an angular velocity that's fast enough to render an equal distributuon of the oil around the gap. For the turbo, as it starts spooling, it will have more friction losses than when it is spooling at a velocity that is above a certain threshold.

Simply put, the journal bearing turbo will require more time to spool in the begining because, the viscous effect of the oil will be dominant at that point.

For a ball bearing, the rotation is provided by metal balls rolling in a semi-spherical grooved shale that is present in the inner and outer part of the bearing. The race part of the bearing is filled with grease. The rotation of the balls and the tight clearance between their contact point and inner and outer race surface will ensure that the grease is compacted and spread even along the bearing, creating a super smooth gliding surface for the balls. It is much smoother and offers less resistance than a ball bearing but it does come with drawbacks.

Since the journal bearing is only consisted of one part that is a metal sleeve with holes allowing passage of oil, it is a pretty sturdy mechanism that has a fatigue level that is much lower than a ball bearing. Ball bearings are composed of multiple components that creates more possibilities of failures under high loading and high temperature (Like in a turbo). Industrial grade ball bearings can reach astronomical prices when they are designed with the best materials and geometry, but for the case of a turbo of that needs to be reasonably priced, the optimal solution would be a ball bearing that can sustain the applied loads and critical angular velocity. With constant loading and time, these types of bearings will wear fasters than a journal bearing which will be able to take higher radial loading (Assuming the flow of oil is always at optimal pressure and debit).