[pjr710]

I guess I may be hooked on this motor. I have an n54 335 I DD ... I've been for a while looking at a secondary DD, whether i was to get an x5 35d or a 335d both have their benefits!

I see many of these for sale with higher mileage .. 120k+

Are there any pitfalls or things to watch out for when buying these used?

I'd imagine, carbon build up.

But some of the stuff I'm confused about are the ABC deletes, the harmonic balancer .... are these necessary? Can these cars run fine out of the box? Or are they ticking time bombs?

[Thecastle]

Ah another falling for the siren song of the diesel. Welcome to the diesel forums. I've had mine for 4 1/4 years and it was my unicorn.

The 335d/x35d are like that hot bipolar cheerleader. Its great when she's on the upswing, but you'll probably wish you hadn't.

You'll get a lot of opinions here. But the bottom line is this. Out of the box (stock) the D's are probably the least reliable cars from this e90/e70 generation (with the possible exception of an e70 with a N63). Though they have gotten better with numerous recalls and warranty extensions to 10/120K miles. Lots of folks now can get to 100K plus with stock emissions intact with little trouble.

The emissions components are one major weak link on these cars. SCR/SCR tank failures, EGR problems, egr cooler failures, etc. So a lot of folks delete the emissions which will cost you in the neighborhood of $2000 in parts/tune and probably another 500-1000 in labor depending on what you do. So yeah you'll have to spend some cash to just make sure it doesen't break (or chance it and tune it when it does).

Common failures on the diesels.
1) Red boost hose fails
2) bad vacuum lines
3) turbo oil line leaks
4) thermostat failures
5) carbon build up from too much EGR on the 335d's especially
6) Harmonic balancer goes about 50-100K miles
7) engine mounts pretty common they go bad
8) EGR cooler (cracks) / EGR failures (CBU build up)
7) SCR tank failures (especially temp sensor)
8) NOx sensors are done around 120K miles
9) MAF sensor failures
10) DPF lines popping off
11) regen problems/glow plug failures usually due to extended time with bad t-stat.
12) all of the other common e90 problems not engine related


What does not seem to be a problem on this car
1) transmissions seem solid even when tuned
2) other than turbo oil lines there aren't a lot of oil leaks
3) turbos seem to last
4) no fuel pump problems
5) no cooling system failures (other than t-stat)
6) DPF's seem to hold up fine to 140-170K miles.
7) cars seem to hold up fine to most tuning, it only seems to be when you get to stage 2.8 or higher that people begin to see failures.

Good luck and have fun.

P.S. The N57 in the 535d/2014+ x5 35d are more reliable but suffer from fuel pump failures and are under an EGR cooler recall.

[pjr710]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Ah another falling for the siren song of the diesel. Welcome to the diesel forums. I've had mine for 4 1/4 years and it was my unicorn.

The 335d/x35d are like that hot bipolar cheerleader. Its great when she's on the upswing, but you'll probably wish you hadn't.

You'll get a lot of opinions here. But the bottom line is this. Out of the box (stock) the D's are probably the least reliable cars from this e90/e70 generation (with the possible exception of an e70 with a N63). Though they have gotten better with numerous recalls and warranty extensions to 10/120K miles. Lots of folks now can get to 100K plus with stock emissions intact with little trouble.

The emissions components are one major weak link on these cars. SCR/SCR tank failures, EGR problems, egr cooler failures, etc. So a lot of folks delete the emissions which will cost you in the neighborhood of $2000 in parts/tune and probably another 500-1000 in labor depending on what you do. So yeah you'll have to spend some cash to just make sure it doesen't break (or chance it and tune it when it does).

Common failures on the diesels.
1) Red boost hose fails
2) bad vacuum lines
3) turbo oil line leaks
4) thermostat failures
5) carbon build up from too much EGR on the 335d's especially
6) Harmonic balancer goes about 50-100K miles
7) engine mounts pretty common they go bad
8) EGR cooler (cracks) / EGR failures (CBU build up)
7) SCR tank failures (especially temp sensor)
8) NOx sensors are done around 120K miles
9) MAF sensor failures
10) DPF lines popping off
11) regen problems/glow plug failures usually due to extended time with bad t-stat.
12) all of the other common e90 problems not engine related


What does not seem to be a problem on this car
1) transmissions seem solid even when tuned
2) other than turbo oil lines there aren't a lot of oil leaks
3) turbos seem to last
4) no fuel pump problems
5) no cooling system failures (other than t-stat)
6) DPF's seem to hold up fine to 140-170K miles.
7) cars seem to hold up fine to most tuning, it only seems to be when you get to stage 2.8 or higher that people begin to see failures.

Good luck and have fun.

P.S. The N57 in the 535d/2014+ x5 35d are more reliable but suffer from fuel pump failures and are under an EGR cooler recall.

This is extremely helpful.

I guess I'm wondering if there is a certain amount of "damage' that can be done by buying high mileage ones?

If I can spend $3k to have everything deleted and tuned I'd be happy.

I'd find like an e70 for 10-12 .. then add the extra money .. same with the 335d I see 335ds for like 8k with 120k

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Ah another falling for the siren song of the diesel. Welcome to the diesel forums. I've had mine for 4 1/4 years and it was my unicorn.

The 335d/x35d are like that hot bipolar cheerleader. Its great when she's on the upswing, but you'll probably wish you hadn't.

You'll get a lot of opinions here. But the bottom line is this. Out of the box (stock) the D's are probably the least reliable cars from this e90/e70 generation (with the possible exception of an e70 with a N63). Though they have gotten better with numerous recalls and warranty extensions to 10/120K miles. Lots of folks now can get to 100K plus with stock emissions intact with little trouble.

The emissions components are one major weak link on these cars. SCR/SCR tank failures, EGR problems, egr cooler failures, etc. So a lot of folks delete the emissions which will cost you in the neighborhood of $2000 in parts/tune and probably another 500-1000 in labor depending on what you do. So yeah you'll have to spend some cash to just make sure it doesen't break (or chance it and tune it when it does).

Common failures on the diesels.
1) Red boost hose fails
2) bad vacuum lines
3) turbo oil line leaks
4) thermostat failures
5) carbon build up from too much EGR on the 335d's especially
6) Harmonic balancer goes about 50-100K miles
7) engine mounts pretty common they go bad
8) EGR cooler (cracks) / EGR failures (CBU build up)
7) SCR tank failures (especially temp sensor)
8) NOx sensors are done around 120K miles
9) MAF sensor failures
10) DPF lines popping off
11) regen problems/glow plug failures usually due to extended time with bad t-stat.
12) all of the other common e90 problems not engine related


What does not seem to be a problem on this car
1) transmissions seem solid even when tuned
2) other than turbo oil lines there aren't a lot of oil leaks
3) turbos seem to last
4) no fuel pump problems
5) no cooling system failures (other than t-stat)
6) DPF's seem to hold up fine to 140-170K miles.
7) cars seem to hold up fine to most tuning, it only seems to be when you get to stage 2.8 or higher that people begin to see failures.

Good luck and have fun.

P.S. The N57 in the 535d/2014+ x5 35d are more reliable but suffer from fuel pump failures and are under an EGR cooler recall.

Having owned both an M57 2011 335d and now a 2016 535d, these weak points are somewhat tailored to what forum members have complained about. Remember, it's a lot more common to hear about problems than reliabilities.

Many of the first four problems are also common to all BMW's IMO and are not unique to the brand. My E320 CDI had vacuum/oil line leaks which cropped up after one use of additive but I digress.

The next 3 categories of complaints are probably common in gasoline versions too.

EGR cooler (cracks) / EGR failures (CBU build up), SCR tank failures (especially temp sensor), and NOx sensors are what you should worry about most IMO as they are expensive to fix and mostly related to the design of the 335d emissions system.

Glow plugs are a "routine" maintenance item with modern diesels - when one fails, it may save money to have all of them replaced (I haven't done this and needed about 3 glow plugs replaced at different times for each of my long-term diesels - but not with my 335d - 103,000 miles).

My 335d with sport suspension had IMO a poorly designed suspension alignment that often had the car "tramming" with braking near intersections. It took several tries to align it properly and it went through performance tires quickly anyway.

Combing the 535d-oriented forums includes some fuel pump issues but they are less than VW TDI's with the earlier version of the Bosch CP4 (around 2.5% incidence). BMW is known to have added coatings in their fuel pumps. Gasser direct injection BMW's also have had well known fuel pump issues.

The EGR cooler thing is baffling to me as BMW had not provided parts for a standard recall but is apparently waiting for a check engine light to come on first.

Other issues I'm concerned about include gasket leaks which apparently BMW has never solved and somewhat rickety reliability of the iDrive systems which need reprogramming/reset at times.

BMW diesel engines are generally well-regarded with many strengths, especially compared to V8 turbo engines (similar torque numbers to the I6 diesels) which IMO should be avoided.

Unless you are looking for 911 style handling and performance, perhaps a 5-series diesel would be a better choice with the many features and technical improvements, including the ZF 8-speed transmission, better acceleration, and significantly better comfort and fuel economy.

Cheers,

PL

[Thecastle]

Pierre, I've had every single item on the list fail on my personal 335D. I've had a CBU cleaning at 28K miles, DPF filter replaced, MAF sensor replaced 4x, EGR cooler replaced 4x, EGR valve replaced 3x, SCR injector, SCR tank, NOx sensors 2x each, harmonic balancer 2x (bad fluid damper), red boost hose, turbo vacuum lines, t-stat, all belt tensioners and pullies, A/C compressor and condensor coils (compress shredded itself at 72K miles), now about to do the leaking turbo oil lines, replace the air silencer as its cracked and dont want to dust the turbos, many pressure converter sensors in the DPF area. However, mine has been exceptionally unreliable. But has been good for a BMW over the last two years since I did an EGR delete.

I'd like to swap to a 535d, have my eyes on it but..... Its not yet at the dealer. Fully loaded 535d 28K miles, M-sport, adaptive drive, multi-contour seats, adaptive cruise control, heads up, comfort access etc...

[Persian Whisperjet]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Pierre, I've had every single item on the list fail on my personal 335D.

Yeah, not sure what to make of the comment that "these weak points are somewhat tailored to what forum members have complained about."

Really?

Excellent list Thecastle.

[montr]

It is a good list from Thecastle. I had all these problems plus multiples injectors.

[RED-d]

If you're looking for a performance diesel stick with the 335d and delete and tune. Best bang for the buck is find one already tuned. If comfort is more your style I'd maybe look at the 2015 740ld. It's the only year for a 7 series diesel. Well optioned went for $100k, but now in low 30's. Lesser optioned in the $20's

[Pierre Louis]

My 2011 335d had one set of NOx sensors as well as catalytic converters replaced and a faulty DEF heater/sensor later fixed under extended BMW warranty. No other items, just alignment problems. Sold it after 103,000 miles. Car apparently needed CBU cleaning since.

I don't use additives and only go to branded busy stations, mostly Shell nowadays, but the 335d had Texaco that later lost its license due to water contamination in its tanks (I surmise). My 2016 535d has been flawless for 56,000 miles.

I guess that doesn't fit some people's narrative. Sorry.

PW: a statistical argument is presented to you.

PL

[PerfectAce]

I think what PL is saying is that a self-selecting group is not going to be truly representative of the whole. Out of the entire universe of M57 owners, it's usually the ones who experience problems with their car that wind up on the forums looking for help and/or answers. We generally never hear from the folks that have been driving their cars trouble-free.

It's a bit like finding out that virtually all shipwreck survivors prayed as the ship went down. They all prayed, they all survived, ergo, if others pray when their ship starts sinking they'll be saved from a watery grave. Trouble is, nobody asked all the dead folks littering the ocean floor if they prayed or not.

That being said, the very knowledgeable folks here have identified the weak and failure-prone parts of this car and how to make it more reliable. Castle's list is a good one and gives any potential buyer fair warning about problems they should be prepared to address. For example, when I first got my car, it seemed like peoples' harmonic dampeners were failing every other day. I went ahead and ordered a new one just to be prepared. Literally, the next day, mine failed. Downtime was minimized because the part was en route. The car one gets may be a total sweetheart, or could be plagued with issues. Regardless, the best thing one can do as an owner is educate yourself on the potential problems and have a plan (and pile of money) to address them.

[montr]

Originally Posted by PerfectAce

I think what PL is saying is that a self-selecting group is not going to be truly representative of the whole. .

The 335d was on the Consumer Reports list of used cars to avoid for a reason. This list is about reliability and is compiled from the annual survey that is sent to all CR subscribers, it is not from the opinions of the editorial team.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by PerfectAce

I think what PL is saying is that a self-selecting group is not going to be truly representative of the whole. Out of the entire universe of M57 owners, it's usually the ones who experience problems with their car that wind up on the forums looking for help and/or answers. We generally never hear from the folks that have been driving their cars trouble-free.

It's a bit like finding out that virtually all shipwreck survivors prayed as the ship went down. They all prayed, they all survived, ergo, if others pray when their ship starts sinking they'll be saved from a watery grave. Trouble is, nobody asked all the dead folks littering the ocean floor if they prayed or not.

That being said, the very knowledgeable folks here have identified the weak and failure-prone parts of this car and how to make it more reliable. Castle's list is a good one and gives any potential buyer fair warning about problems they should be prepared to address. For example, when I first got my car, it seemed like peoples' harmonic dampeners were failing every other day. I went ahead and ordered a new one just to be prepared. Literally, the next day, mine failed. Downtime was minimized because the part was en route. The car one gets may be a total sweetheart, or could be plagued with issues. Regardless, the best thing one can do as an owner is educate yourself on the potential problems and have a plan (and pile of money) to address them.

I agree. Thanks.

There are a lot of compromises in car manufacturing.

I remember touring the Corvette factory (private tour) where many new parts were discarded due to manufacturing defects.

Porsches tend to be more reliable than any other car brand, but they also have eye-watering prices and don't really build for the general public. BMW's appear to be driven as if they are Porsches, which I find unrealistic. You still get what you pay for.

My point was not to criticize Thecastle's post, but to clarify that many of the problems were common in other BMWs as well as other car brands.

The car industry has improved reliability almost every year through new technology, better production techniques, and modular manufacturing. This doesn't make it bulletproof. Reminds me of my daughter's 2003 Honda Civic who's reputation is highly regarded, but oil leaks onto the timing belt would not go away and the Honda dealer wouldn't back their work. A lot depends on the customer service available in your area, not to mention how you drive your car.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by montr

The 335d was on the Consumer Reports list of used cars to avoid for a reason. This list is about reliability and is compiled from the annual survey that is sent to all CR subscribers, it is not from the opinions of the editorial team.

The 335d is a unique and high performance machine. CR is not for these type of buyers. They have their own editorial bias and don't break down the data for the general public to make their own judgements.