[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Every manufacturer sets out requirements that you must comply with in order to keep your warranty intact.

Accordingly, it is your obligation to show that you complied with the warranty requirements. A non-approved oil is proof that you did not comply with the requirements.

Contrary to Amsoil hype, BMW does not need to prove that their oil caused a failure, they need only to ask you to prove that you complied with the warranty requirements.

For a lubrication related malfunction you are absolutely correct. Again, I would never want to get into this battle with BMW as they could stonewall the debate indefinitely.

In my one experience with an engine-related warranty claim, BMW did the absolutely correct thing - they determined the defect had nothing to do with the oil I used and repaired the issue under warranty.

Had they voided my warranty on the spot, I would have paid the repair bill and immediately begun the process of selling my 335i as it would be evident that BMW had no interest in providing an accurate disposition of future malfunctions. Correctly-so, this is not what happened to me.

With all due respect, painting with such broad brush strokes can be dangerous. It reminds me of the day I took delivery of my car, I brought a BMW shift knob that I bought from Tischer to install on delivery day. My client advisor, a man who knew less about the 335i than I did, actually told me that installing a different shift knob could void my car's warranty. True story. It is this kind of mentality and thinking that really gets my fires stoked, but happily my local service advisor and service manager have a far more appropriate and logical attitude.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

For a lubrication related malfunction you are absolutely correct. Again, I would never want to get into this battle with BMW as they could stonewall the debate indefinitely.

In my one experience with an engine-related warranty claim, BMW did the absolutely correct thing - they determined the defect had nothing to do with the oil I used and repaired the issue under warranty.

Had they voided my warranty on the spot, I would have paid the repair bill and immediately begun the process of selling my 335i as it would be evident that BMW had no interest in providing an accurate disposition of future malfunctions. Correctly-so, this is not what happened to me.

With all do respect, painting with such broad brush strokes can be dangerous. It reminds me of the day I took delivery of my car, I brought a BMW shift knob that I bought from Tischer to install on delivery day. My client advisor, a man who knew less about the 335i than I did, actually told me that installing a different shift knob could void my car's warranty. True story. It is this kind of mentality and thinking that really gets my fires stoked, but happily my local service advisor and service manager have a far more appropriate and logical attitude.

We're both on the page and as an educated consumer you can - and should - decide how to mod your car.

You have clearly weighed the pros and cons and have not made that decision in haste.

My goal is to educate the average consumer and inform them of possible pitfalls. They can then decide if they should take that risk.

The problem is that the internet is filled with fanbois who say "just do it" because they won't have to bear the consequences.

Will amsoil, RP, Redline or the cheapest truckstop oil make your engine self destruct? Probably not, but I believe that the manufacturer has a vested interest into assuring that your car runs the best for a long time. Only happy customers recommend products to friends and buy the same make again.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by cb1111

We're both on the page and as an educated consumer you can - and should - decide how to mod your car.

You have clearly weighed the pros and cons and have not made that decision in haste.

My goal is to educate the average consumer and inform them of possible pitfalls. They can then decide if they should take that risk.

The problem is that the internet is filled with fanbois who say "just do it" because they won't have to bear the consequences.

Will amsoil, RP, Redline or the cheapest truckstop oil make your engine self destruct? Probably not, but I believe that the manufacturer has a vested interest into assuring that your car runs the best for a long time. Only happy customers recommend products to friends and buy the same make again.

Well put. Completely agree with your comments. And I too ultimately believe BMW has a vested interest in keeping their cars running well and for what it is worth, I love my 335i Coupe as much today as I did on delivery day; that damn car puts a smile on my face every time I drive her.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

ManyMoons-
There is no intelligent, objective scientific means to conclude that Red Line or any other oil will provide superior performance in you BMW engine if it has not been tested to LL-01 oil specs for U.S. gas engines. You simply have no means to know. BMW LL-01 and LL-04 oils are both approved oils for the 2006 and later gas engines yet only LL-01 is acceptable to meet U.S. warranty requirements.

TrackRat, there are several members on here using redline, royal purple, and amsoil, without issues. If you think that the test sequence developed in 2001 (01), or 2004 (04), covers all current 2005-2010 BMW models, then you need to have your head examined. Conversely since there is no evidence showing that those who are using these expensive PAO based oils, are having any issues, then its childish, to keep writing your stuff. If the individual asking the question is in warranty, and is scared to use other oils, then you can give them your jargon. Lastly, several Motul, and Total products are BMW LL approved. the approval year is written on the back of the label. Please stop directing people to the BMWUSA site's short list of LL01 oils. If you need to know if your oil is LL01 approved check the back of your oils label, for all its testing certifications. The only thing I took from track rat, and cb111's rants is to look for the BMW LL01 oils, but amongst them I only selected and used PAO based oils, i.e true synthetics.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

ManyMoons-

Be advised that all major car companies have a very specific oil that is REQUIRED to maintain you engine warranty. You do not have to have a lubrication issue/failure for BMW NA to void your warranty. The oil requirement is a obligation of the owner to maintain their new vehicle warranty. So the mis-understanding that you need to have an engine/lubrication issue for BMW NA to void your engine warranty is untrue. This is why I always suggest that owners read their new vehicle warranty carefully and pay for a legal opinion if in doubt. I don't provide legal advice but the terms of the warranty and the customer obligations to maintain the warranty are clear.

Respectfully, I disagree with this statement.

On the extreme end of the spectrum, if my Logic7 fails and BMW does not repair it under warranty with the justification of 'the customer failed to use the proper engine lubricant', it would simply not cut the mustard. Unless of course BMW showed that the non-approved lubricant caused a vibration or harmonic that over time caused the Logic7 malfunction, now that is a disposition I would love to read.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

Respectfully, I disagree with this statement.

On the extreme end of the spectrum, if my Logic7 fails and BMW does not repair it under warranty with the justification of 'the customer failed to use the proper engine lubricant', it would simply not cut the mustard. Unless of course BMW showed that the non-approved lubricant caused a vibration or harmonic that over time caused the Logic7 malfunction, now that is a disposition I would love to read.

In theory, TrackRat is correct as the failure to comply with any portion of the maintenance requirements couldallow a dealership to deny any warranty service.

In actuality, a dealership would only deny warranty service on a failure related to the modified system - but that could be pretty far reaching - including the entire drivetrain.

Actually, applying the six degrees of Kevin Bacon one could tie a Logic7 failure to a lubrication failure - but that would probably make for some bad press.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

TrackRat, there are several members on here using redline, royal purple, and amsoil, without issues. If you think that the test sequence developed in 2001 (01), or 2004 (04), covers all current 2005-2010 BMW models, then you need to have your head examined. Conversely since there is no evidence showing that those who are using these expensive PAO based oils, are having any issues, then its childish, to keep writing your stuff. If the individual asking the question is in warranty, and is scared to use other oils, then you can give them your jargon. Lastly, several Motul, and Total products are BMW LL approved. the approval year is written on the back of the label. Please stop directing people to the BMWUSA site's short list of LL01 oils. If you need to know if your oil is LL01 approved check the back of your oils label, for all its testing certifications. The only thing I took from track rat, and cb111's rants is to look for the BMW LL01 oils, but amongst them I only selected and used PAO based oils, i.e true synthetics.

You continue to miss the point and always need to promote your internet hype.

Just because someone has used a product without imploding his engine doesn't mean that product is the best one for his engine - you refuse to comprehend that and that makes your arguments irrelevant.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by cb1111

You continue to miss the point and always need to promote your internet hype.

Just because someone has used a product without imploding his engine doesn't mean that product is the best one for his engine - you refuse to comprehend that and that makes your arguments irrelevant.

You refuse to contemplate the FACT, that people are using these oils for hundreds of THOUSANDS of miles, without an issues, so get it straight. Its pretty much useless talking to you, because rather than stating: look for the BMWLL approval on your oil's label, you instead, have people use only the stuff on BMWUSA's website.

[cb1111]

Perhaps we can put this into language that even TB can comprehend.

The purpose of any oil is to lubricate.
Too little lubrication can lead to increased wear
Too much lubrication doesn't work well either
A manufacturer decides how the oil is supposed to perform
All LL-01 oil have virtually identical performance characteristics

The above are statements that readers (not even TB - but I'm sure he'll try) cannot disagree with.

Accordingly, if a poster says "I switched to xyz oil and the performance increased dramatically" then the oil he/she switched to is either the wrong viscosity and/or an oil that doesn't meet the required specs.

If there is any noticeable change in performance then there is also the related change in wear of that component - be it engine or drivetrain.

It really is pretty simple.

[Marcus-SanDiego]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

As usual Turkey your mis-information is a disservice to BMW owners who want accurate important technical info. concerning their engine oil warranty REQUIREMENTS.

Your constant hawking of PAO oils does not make your beliefs true, it just makes them your unsubstantiated beliefs. You seem to get angry when your beliefs are unsupported by reality, but reality isn't going to change just because you hold false beliefs.

As has been documented countless times BMW gas engine powered vehicles sold in the U.S. from 2006 on REQUIRE the use of BMW LL-01 approved oils to maintain the new vehicle engine warranty. BMW approved LL-04 oils are specifically not to be used in U.S. models per BMW. These are the FACTS. What people chose to do is up to them as long as they know their engine warranty can in fact be voided for NOT using LL-01 oil in U.S. gas engine models.

Turkey - You seem to try every avenue to discredit the BMW engineers who actually test BMW engines to determine the proper engine oil REQUIREMENTS for the APPLICATION. BMW's testing, which you refuse to accept, has determined that the LL-01 oil is the REQUIRED oil for gas engine BMW models in the U.S. from 2006 onwards. It doesn't matter WHEN the LL-01 oil std. was created, what matters is that it's the PROPER oil for the APPLICATION.

Your beliefs that because the oil std. was created in 2001 means that it is outdated is just as technically ignorant as your previously posted belief that the boutique oils provide superior BMW engine lubrication performance to BMW approved oils because the boutique oils COST MORE. You have no means to reach this conclusion without actual LL-01 oil sequence testing. Price does not dictate quality or actual engine performance. Price MAY be an indicator of quality or performance and it MAY not. Material Safety Data Sheets, (MSDS), do not tell ANYTHING about how an oil performs in an engine either but you continue to try to use the MSDS sheets for that purpose. You're in complete denial on the subject of engine oil performance in the engine.

There are a lot of expensive oils that may not have the proper chemistry to meet BMW LL-01 oil specs. Your beliefs are a desperate attempt to convince yourself and other people of your baseless belief that PAO based oils are appropriate and/or will provide superior engine lubrication performance in BMW engines just because they are PAO based. I'm sorry but that belief is unfounded unless the oil has actually been tested and determined via the LL-01 oil test sequence process to really be superior. You have absolutely no means to know if ANY oil is appropriate for a BMW engine without the proper LL-01 oil test sequence testing and approval.

As I have stated many times - without BMW LL-01 oil sequence testing we as consumers have absolutely no means to know if any un-approved oil be it the boutique oils or other oils are appropriate for BMW engines, what engines they may be appropriate for and in what applications they are appropriate. As we have discussed countless times and you refuse to accept, BMW states in writing that the LL-04 oil is NOT acceptable for use in U.S. gas engine models from 2006 onwards yet it's a perfectly good oil. Using the REQUIRED LL-01 oil is not only appropriate to maintain your new vehicle warranty, BMW has confirmed via actual engine/oil testing which they conduct year round that for the U.S. you need to run LL-01 approved oils.

Once again we can discuss oil base stock vs. actual oil performance in operating engines...

NO MAJOR CAR MAKER specifies the oil base stock required for passenger car oil specifications because it is NOT the oil base stock that determines the overall LUBRICATION PERFORMANCE IN YOUR ENGINE. It is the TOTAL OIL FORMULATION that determines an oil's performance in an engine. The additive package is the primary factor in determining an oil's performance. Therefore you could select many PAO based oils that are perfectly good oils for some application but they are NOT SUITABLE FOR USE IN A BMW ENGINE unless they are LL-01 approved.

The use of LL-01 approved oils of the correct viscosity is a U.S. BMW warranty REQUIREMENT. BMW does NOT care what brand or oil base stock the oil is as long as it has been tested by BMW and approved to LL-01 specs and is the correct viscosity - because that is what your engine actually REQUIRES.

For those looking to know if an oil is APPROVED to BMW LL-01 specs check the oil bottle to be sure it states:

APPROVED TO LL-01 or CERTIFIED to LL-01.

The boutique oil guys like to sucker naive consumers by using advertising hype like:

RECOMMENDED for or DESIGNED for or IDEAL for all European cars or for a bunch of Euro oil specs, when these oils are NOT approved to ANY Euro car specs.

These are marketing phases to IMPLY that these boutique oils have been tested and approved by BMW when they have NOT. Your ENGINE WARRANTY can be voided by using these NON-BMW LL-01 approved oils. RECOMMENDED is NOT the same as APPROVED or CERTIFIED to LL-01 oil standards.

No one knows more about what your BMW REQUIRES for engine oil than BMW because they actually test to determine what the engine REQUIRES. No one online even at BITOG knows anywhere near as much as what BMW knows about the oil REQUIREMENTS for your engine. Do yourself a favor and use a proper BMW LL-01 approved oil if you value your engine and engine warranty. If you're adventurous and don't have any concerns about engine damage and loss of warranty then you are completely free to use whatever oil makes you happy. It may not be the best oil for your engine and your engine may wear prematurely or be unhappy but that is your choice as long as you know and understand the warranty/engine REQUIREMENTS.

I realize that none of the information provided in this post will change Turkey's unfounded beliefs and that he'll continue to make baseless, misleading claims because he wants to convince people of his beliefs. Holding those beliefs does not make them true however.

Also note that I am NOT trying to sell anyone any brand of oil, I'm just stating accurate technical info. No where have I stated that the boutique oils are "bad". I have stated we do not know if ANY oil is appropriate for use in BMW engines unless BMW has actually conducted the full LL-01 oil test sequence and approved the oil to LL-01 specifications. Many times I have recommended that AMSOIL, Redline, Royal Purple, etc. have their oils tested by BMW, Porsche, Audi, VW, M-B, etc. so we know if these oils meet any Euro car makers specs and which ones.

If these companies can't afford to have independent testing and certification of their oils do they really have the capability to develop a proper engine oil to meet the Euro car makers specs? We don't know, do we? So why would you pour an unapproved oil into your engine and void your warranty? AFAIK AMSOIL, Redline, Royal Purple have NO Euro car maker oil approval so buyer beware.

If Turkeybaster would STOP posting his baseless beliefs in every single oil thread, over and over and over, we would not need to post corrections in every oil thread for his unfounded beliefs... It gets old after awhile, it doesn't change reality and it is a disservice to BMW owners IMO.

TR, thanks for the information. Cuts right to the chase. Straight forward and easy to understand.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

APPROVED TO LL-01 or CERTIFIED to LL-01.

The boutique oil guys like to sucker naive consumers by using advertising hype like:

RECOMMENDED for or DESIGNED for or IDEAL for all European cars or for a bunch of Euro oil specs, when these oils are NOT approved to ANY Euro car specs.

These are marketing phases to IMPLY that these boutique oils have been tested and approved by BMW when they have NOT. Your ENGINE WARRANTY can be voided by using these NON-BMW LL-01 approved oils. RECOMMENDED is NOT the same as APPROVED or CERTIFIED to LL-01 oil standards.

WHAT?????????????????!!!!!??????????? You mean that myrecommendationto use my maple syrup cottage cheese euro blend isn't the same as an approval or a certification by the manufacturer?

No matter, I'll just get a bunch of internet fanbois together to sell my recommended swill. Hell, I'll just raise the price to make it worth "more."

I'll add a few drops of extra virgin olive oil and recommend it for Ferrari and Lambos. Perhaps a bit of sake and I can recommend it to for Asian cars too.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Tough crowd...

Next I was going to use Moron Man's engine break-in routine.

You gotta get the "religion" man... though maple syrup would be edible if I decided not to use it in my engine.

If I added some sauce from Kung PAO chicken then I'd also get TBs unqualified endorsement.

[123Britt]

Ok the BMW engineers say use a LL-01 oil - so I take this as THE WORD.
.
.
I use to be very particular about the Brand --- now after years of reading and ownership of turbo cars my thoughts are:
.
.
Stick with a manaufactors recomendaion (your personal favorite LL-01 oil) and most imporatantly - change it often. Can we ALL agree that the 15k change interval only supports a "Lifetime" ownership or 100k miles. If you want ownership beyond 100k then the 7k or less oil change is important in a 335i.
.
So, in short I would rather you guys debate how often we should be changing the oil utitlzing LL-01 oil. Beyond hard testing data everything else is speculation. But it is interesting.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

.

In all seriousness, I would be interested to hear why boutique oils do not submit for BMW LL01 ratings -.

Visit BITOG and you'll see the additive make up of the boutique oils (esp the virgin oil analysis section).

First. Boutique oils must run the bench tests to meet ACEA standards. Some of these standards have limits on certain additives. Notice I said limit and not maximium. If a additive level exceeds what's allowed the oil can't be certified.

BMW will not rate an oil that doesn't mee the applicable ACEA standards (Ex. LL-04 must be A3/B4 C3.)

Secondly, the boutique oils don't have to have their oil 'certified' and they instead decided to let their reputation speak for itself which in the case of redline is excellent. So although the theory on using only BMW LL01/LL04 oils is correct, the reality is that many people have had no lubrication problems while using boutique oils.

The REALITY is the RP, Redline, and Amsoil are not crap, and have a very large following in the enthusiast world. The enthusiast is the toughest customer and any bad news about either of these 3 would have shut these companies down years ago.


Thirdly, the new ACEA standards revolve around Group III oils. The boutique oils are generally a combination of Group IV/V. Group III is cheaper to make and on par with Group IV (PAO). M1 could sell a PAO based LL01 oil, but they don't have to. Castrol used to sell a PAO LL01 sold as 0w-30, but it's unclear how much PAO is in it today.

Now I do think that with the more sophisticated catalytic converters in todays cars are going to force the boutique oils to come in line with ACEA/API by lowering the amount of some types of additives. It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by 123Britt

Can we ALL agree that the 15k change interval only supports a "Lifetime" ownership or 100k miles. If you want ownership beyond 100k then the 7k or less oil change is important in a 335i.
.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with that. Europeans have ~18.6k mile (30k km) oil change intervals. Cars are driven harder, everything is more expensive and they tend to keep their cars much longer - 200 and 300k km cars are common in Europe.

In addition, many dealers in Germany will flat out refuse to change the oil early.

Try this:

Send a sample of fresh oil along with a 5k sample to a lab.
Top off with fresh oil as required. Do not change the oil.
At 7500 miles send another sample. Top off if necessary.
If all is well (it will be) then re-sample at 10k, 12.5k and at 15k

That one series of tests will cost about the same as one oil change and the you have the answer for your engine.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by Socom

...The REALITY is the RP, Redline, and Amsoil are not crap, and have a very large following in the enthusiast world. The enthusiast is the toughest customer and any bad news about either of these 3 would have shut these companies down years ago...

Actually,the REALITY is that we have no definitive answers to the quality (or lack thereof) of boutique oils.

Actually, the "enthusiast world" may well be the worst community to talk about the quality of lubricants - they either change their cars too frequently or mod them to the point of some failure.

The FACT is that the only oils that have actually been tested and found appropriate for our cars are LL-01 (in the US) and LL-04 (ROW)

With non approved oils you are playing Russian roulette with your warranty and - like with the real Russian roulette - somebody always loses.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with that. Europeans have ~18.6k mile (30k km) oil change intervals. Cars are driven harder, everything is more expensive and they tend to keep their cars much longer - 200 and 300k km cars are common in Europe.

It will indeed be interesting to see how N54 engines age over time. The N54 represents the first turbo-charged engine from BMW since 1980, yet their service guidelines and fluids remained almost identical (or in some cases, extended) to those of their traditionally naturally aspirated offerings.

Now that forced induction is becoming the rule rather than the exception at BMW, it will be intriguing to see how BMW updates their fluids, intervals, etc. Maybe they will change nothing, but I can already hear the ///M guys howling at the forthcoming extended intervals on all their fluids.

I will tell you my biggest beef with BMW is their throwing the word 'lifetime' on some of their fluids (coolant, transmission oil, differential oil). Anytime a manufacturer throws out such a ridiculously ambiguous term as 'lifetime' when describing the maintenance of their product, I start flipping the Bozo-bit on them. They are committing the exact same crime that some here have convicted the boutique companies of - throwing labels on their product with nothing other than a 'just trust us' mentality.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Actually,the REALITY is that we have no definitive answers to the quality (or lack thereof) of boutique oils.

Actually, the "enthusiast world" may well be the worst community to talk about the quality of lubricants - they either change their cars too frequently or mod them to the point of some failure.

The FACT is that the only oils that have actually been tested and found appropriate for our cars are LL-01 (in the US) and LL-04 (ROW)

With non approved oils you are playing Russian roulette with your warranty and - like with the real Russian roulette - somebody always loses.

It's your opinon just as my own, however customer satisfaction and longevity of companies like Redline speaks for itself. There is no denying that. In addition I'm not saying boutique is better, I'm saying it's not any worse.

When I say enthusiast I'm not talking the kids who turn their cars every 3 yrs. I'm talking about the people who have had their cars for 5-20 yrs and maintain them religiously.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by Socom

In addition I'm not saying boutique is better, I'm saying it's not any worse.

"You can't prove that" rebuttal coming in 5...4...3...2...

While I personally agree with you Socom, I am afraid this conversation has headed into the 'Argument From Ignorance' realm:

1) <Insert Boutique Oil> has never been disproven therefore <Insert Boutique Oil> is/must be true.

2) <Insert Boutique Oil> has never been proven therefore <Insert Boutique Oil> is/must be false.

Perhaps the greatest element of comedy to this whole debate is the notion that if one uses a non-LL01 oil of the proper viscosity in their car, and that oil actually does do damage to their engine, the effects of that damage will more than likely surface long after the four-year warranty has expired. Assuming normal operating conditions of course (~15K miles year, non-extreme climates, etc.)

Perhaps we should all meet back in ten years, have some beers, and break down our engines to see how they have held up.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

"You can't prove that" rebuttal coming in 5...4...3...2...

While I personally agree with you Socom, I am afraid this conversation has headed into the 'Argument From Ignorance' realm:

1) <Insert Boutique Oil> has never been disproven therefore <Insert Boutique Oil> is/must be true.

2) <Insert Boutique Oil> has never been proven therefore <Insert Boutique Oil> is/must be false.

Perhaps the greatest element of comedy to this whole debate is the notion that if one uses a non-LL01 oil of the proper viscosity in their car, and that oil actually does do damage to their engine, the effects of that damage will more than likely surface long after the four-year warranty has expired. Assuming normal operating conditions of course (~15K miles year, non-extreme climates, etc.)

Perhaps we should all meet back in ten years, have some beers, and break down our engines to see how they have held up.

So very true.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by ManyMoonsAgo

"You can't prove that" rebuttal coming in 5...4...3...2...

While I personally agree with you Socom, I am afraid this conversation has headed into the 'Argument From Ignorance' realm:

1) <Insert Boutique Oil> has never been disproven therefore <Insert Boutique Oil> is/must be true.

2) <Insert Boutique Oil> has never been proven therefore <Insert Boutique Oil> is/must be false.

Perhaps the greatest element of comedy to this whole debate is the notion that if one uses a non-LL01 oil of the proper viscosity in their car, and that oil actually does do damage to their engine, the effects of that damage will more than likely surface long after the four-year warranty has expired. Assuming normal operating conditions of course (~15K miles year, non-extreme climates, etc.)

Perhaps we should all meet back in ten years, have some beers, and break down our engines to see how they have held up.

Agreed. It is unlikely that any of us will still own our cars then though.

[ManyMoonsAgo]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Holding baseless beliefs does not make them true. Just because you don't know an oil is inappropriate for your engine doesn't mean it isn't. Some people believe the earth is flat...

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

That's precisely why Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple etc. should all have their oils tested and certified by Euro car makers IF their oils will actually pass the oil test sequence. Their oils could be good for some engines and not others. No one has any means to know without independent oil sequence testing. As a result the boutique oil purveyors use hype to sway the technically challenged.

Oh dear.
1) No one is arguing that the Earth is flat.
2) No one is arguing that a LL-01 oil is not appropriate for use.
3) I love the technically challenged line...good stuff. I feel BMW uses the exact same strategy when describing the maintenance regiment for my car. The instant they used the term 'lifetime' to describe a service-fluid in my car, they lost the same credibility that you lost for boutique companies.