[Taskmaster]

For those of you who haven't been paying attention:

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

I emailed WestCoastRiots.com
They say its possible with enough interest to try, but unknown result. Should we go for this? I dont see any other option that had reviews in the forums

We can develop a regrind cam for this engine if there is enough interest.
I would need to buy 1 set of core units to start the development.
Do you think that you could help gage interest? I would need 3-5 deposits of $100 each to start the development. The end cost would be similar to our current regrind cams.

We would grind as aggressive as safely possible on the factory BMW cam. I wouldn’t know the potential profile until I have a core set to measure and calculate off of.

Thanks,
Todd
Riot Racing
www.WestCoastRiots.com

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Their website has cost as this description:

Price for cams: $450.00
Core Charge: $450.00 (core charge applied at time of order. To avoid core charge call to provide credit card number or send us the cams from your engine)

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Riot Racing cams apparently added 15whp+ whp to a E36 M3.
The biggest problem I see is find a core/blank in order to get those cams.

Justpete picked up some OEM cams:

Originally Posted by justpete

Picked up the intake cam this afternoon, the exhaust cam didn't make it but will be in tomorrow morning. Here're some pics of the lobes and the ends. The minimum thickness of the lobes is right at 0.200" and the wall thickness of the cam itself is quite a bit more than I expected.

Attachment 1131134

Attachment 1131135

Attachment 1131136

Originally Posted by justpete

Picked up exhaust cam midday today. Here're some pics. The minimum thickness of the lobes is about half that of the intake cam at 0.100" and the thickness of the camshaft itself is about 0.132" as measured with a pair of calipers.

Attachment 1132070

Attachment 1132069

Attachment 1132068

Attachment 1132067

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

Update - Todd informed me this morning that he has a regrind profile ready and I gave the go ahead. No leadtime yet but they're in process now. Large amount of work on the car is pending arrival of some other parts and these will go in during that work, probably in at least five to six weeks as the CF roof hasn't shipped and the C&R radiator drawing is ok but needed an M12 boss added for the temp sensor so it's a few weeks off once the drawings are signed off.

Originally Posted by justpete

YA Update - Todd is projecting a 10% increase in engine hp according to their calculations. We'll see how it pans out on the dyno.

Originally Posted by justpete

Update on the update -- The regrind is going as far as the case hardening of the OE cams will allow so there won't be a second pass for a race rebuild. That's going to require a billet cam and the cost is too much to consider at $15K-$40K. Nobody in their right mind would go in on a group buy at three to four grand a set.

Thread here:http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1061447 But I saved you the trouble.

[justpete]

FWIW, just called in the cc# to C&R after drawing approval, leadtime is three weeks. Thinner than stock radiator but same core used with 800hp NASCAR engines. Drops in to stock location with complete reuse. And you really don't wanna know how much. Yikes.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Thread here:http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1061447 But I saved you the trouble.

so 10% of 230 is 23 hp?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

FWIW, just called in the cc# to C&R after drawing approval, leadtime is three weeks. Thinner than stock radiator but same core used with 800hp NASCAR engines. Drops in to stock location with complete reuse. And you really don't wanna know how much. Yikes.

Pete, you need help man.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

so 10% of 230 is 23 hp?

In theory, yes, but they said engine power, which calculates to around the same amount.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Pete, you need help man.

Whats another 10 gs at this point haha

Ps: ask pete to send you the audio file of his car, it sounds amazing-- you'll enjoy it.

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

In theory, yes, but they said engine power, which calculates to around the same amount.

now we just need to source some cams

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

In theory, yes, but they said engine power, which calculates to around the same amount.

Yeah, it's not really clear. If it's 10% of net crank then it's also 10% of rear wheel horsepower since they're related by the driveline efficiency. I'm guessing my 219rwhp will be close to 241rwhp on the DynoDynamics dyno if this is correct. I'm told all the planned head work should yield another 20rwhp bringing it just about what an S54 puts out on the same dyno. w00t

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Pete, you need help man.

Oh hellz yeah. Crack is less addictive. Dammit.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

Whats another 10 gs at this point haha

Ps: ask pete to send you the audio file of his car, it sounds amazing-- you'll enjoy it.


now we just need to source some cams

Oh I should be so lucky if it's only another ten. Easily three to four times that.

Can you zip your cleaned up version of the aiff file and post it here? My copy is on another machine I haven't booted after I got home this afternoon.

Still haven't had a chance to get a better capture but will once the weather warms up a bit again, missed the last few days it did earlier.

Thanks!

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

now we just need to source some cams

FYI, Todd found some cams that could be used as cores but he didn't want to put his coin into them just on a request from me so I bought the new cams at the dealer and shipped them to him. Since he has and can find cores it shouldn't be a problem for anyone to do the same thing, I just have no idea what those cores would cost given their relative rarity. But it's not impossible. Of course this assumes the cams survive the grind process and work in the engine and produce the expected torque curve. fingers crossed

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Pete, you need help man.

Forgot to mention I had to buy a new radiator to ship to C&R so they could make a drop-in otherwise my car would've been down for a few months. And ATI has a new harmonic balancer and crank nose hub and bolts as well. But they're swamped and now saying yet another month until they get a chance to finish it. Not sure what I'm going to do with two stock radiators though. Maybe some funky yard art. Howzaboutthat?

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

Forgot to mention I had to buy a new radiator to ship to C&R so they could make a drop-in otherwise my car would've been down for a few months. And ATI has a new harmonic balancer and crank nose hub and bolts as well. But they're swamped and now saying yet another month until they get a chance to finish it. Not sure what I'm going to do with two stock radiators though. Maybe some funky yard art. Howzaboutthat?

hmm I wonder how much they are

and here is the file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ere2tybix3...uched.aif?dl=0

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

hmm I wonder how much they are

What? The radiators?

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

What? The radiators?

the cams that guy todd found

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

the cams that guy todd found

No idea. I guess we'll know soon enough, I hope.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Emozoo

and here is the file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ere2tybix3...uched.aif?dl=0

Thanks for this, I completely spaced you'd put it on dropbox, sorry about that. I was thinking it was on the desktop of the windoze box that hadn't been powered up yet. Duh.

[Mike.]

Originally Posted by justpete

Thanks for this, I completely spaced you'd put it on dropbox, sorry about that. I was thinking it was on the desktop of the windoze box that hadn't been powered up yet. Duh.

haha its all good

[StealYourFace]

OOhhhh a hot cam kit and rev limiter raised 10% (just a guess as whats needed) to 7700

Better yet can they do solid lifter cams with vanos delete for that extra lopey idle ....

[justpete]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

OOhhhh a hot cam kit and rev limiter raised 10% (just a guess as whats needed) to 7700

Better yet can they do solid lifter cams with vanos delete for that extra lopey idle ....

You'll have to have the head rebuilt to balance the valve train to get that high a redline, t'ain't cheap.

Anything other than a regrind is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. I asked about making custom cams for a custom race build and he estimated three to four grand a set and five to ten sets minimum. Big bucks, he wasn't kidding.

For less you can have the entire engine completely race prepped, fully bluelprinted and balanced, race valves, guides, springs, retainers, balanced, flowed, unshrouded if needed, three angle ground, minimally decked for increased compression ratio, etc. and you'll pick up 20-25rwhp without changing anything.

Up the redline and lean the mixture while stopping the DME from pulling timing and you could probably gain another 15-20rwhp but it'd be a custom tune done by someone who does real race tunes and has a track record, literally speaking.

Improved cooling is a must, colder plugs too. But it'd be a screamer and require a very close look at the mains and rod bearing clearances and bearing material type to keep the bottom end from becoming a failure point. Speed costs money, ain't no doubt about it.

[justpete]

As a point of reference I talked with Cat Cams and there was no interest in developing a Valvetronic compatible cam, at all. Schrick was even less interested. VAC was barely interested (Cat Cams) but wanted a fully functional cylinder head for bog knows how long to develop something and only if they could track down some blanks to start with. Didn't know about the regrind option until andrey_gta talked with Todd at Riot Racing. Was just flat SOL until then.

If you lock Valvetronic open it'd be easier but it requires machining and it won't work with the stock DME so there goes the rest of your car's functions when the MoTeC and custom wiring harness (another thirty grand or so) gets installed to run a Vanos-less and Valvetronic-less totally unstreetable race engine. Haven't found a middle ground yet, Todd's regrinds are the best bet going at the moment.