[Steve A]

No offence guys but you are a bunch of pussies

The deisel engine blocks are near on bomb proof and sticking an extra 20% power is not going to make the slightest difference.

In the case of the 335d the gearbox is rated at 850nm and the best remap puts it to 700nm tops, plenty of margin there.

The electronics on these cars are there to STOP the cars from blowing up thats why if there is a problem the car is designed to go into limp mode to stop potential damage.

The turbo can handle more power, these are deisel engines not race engines they are not tuned to the max, no where near. for that youd need

1 REALLY BIG TURBOS ( not the standard ones)
2 RACE CAMS( nope they arent on standard cars)
3 RACE EXHAUST WITH 100 CELL CATS ( again aint got these)
4 ULTRA AGGRESSIVE MAPPING TO BURN LOADS OF FUEL (a good map will increase fuel economy)

BMW actually reigns in the power some reasons are

A) marketing ie 286bhp is a bmw favorite, M1 M635csi, 740i, 335d etc etc
B) BMW have to take into consideration the quality of fuel, how some owners will maintain there car or not as is sometimes the case.


On to why there is a huge difference in price.......SALES TECHNIQUE, and fitting.

These are businesses to make money. If all mappers could charge 3k for a remap they would.

DMS has a very aggressive marketing campaign in more or less every ,magazine. As i used to own an advertising company i can tell you take aint cheap CAA are now doing the same thing.

Sending a REMAPPER all over the UK is expensive.

The software cost money to write/buy

some of the smaller mappers buy in mapps and cant charge a premium because nobody as heard of them so the price is low to break the market( not everyone will pay 500-1000). some people want a £250 remapp and there are companies who fit the bill.

IMO DMS offer a warranty because they know the car wont break simple as.
ALSO dealers dont give a monkey id the car is remapped or not BMW pay the dealer to fix the car, so the dealer makes money if a car breaks.

DEISEL bmw are the best deseils out there, stop worrting and enjoy the ride.


STEVE>

[peppernick]

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

No offence guys but you are a bunch of pussies

LOL ..... ...... I was trying to be more tactful

As most who are seriously looking into a re-map will know, my 335D was one of the few early cars to receive the treatment, and CAA's first. Nothing is going to break :rocks:

[silverbmwz3]

Originally Posted by peppernick

Has anyone actually read the fine prints of the supposed 'warranty' some mappers give? Do you really think XYZ is going to order you a brand new engine, transmission etc and get BMW to fit it so that your factory warranty is retained? They may get the car back on the road for you, but what they do with it is totally at their descretion. Tuner 'warranties' with the exception of those endorsed by BMW themselves are nothing more than a sales pitch. There are just too many loop holes to work around in the event of an unlikely 'warranty' claim from serious damage that may be directly associated with the re-map. It's a huge grey area.

If you're really serious about tuning, you have to do your own research and make informed decisions about your choice of mods. If you have to really rely on the warranty and couldn't see yourself finding a way round things when problems arise other than the conventional approach, it's probably better if you don't do it. That's my opinion

So it is a big gamble, which explains Steve's eloquently phrased description of those of us who don't have enough money to throw at a car to fix it or such great depths of BMW engineering knowledge such as "its bombproof" (presumably that has been tested).

If you guys have the money to take risks with your 40k cars then fair play, those of us who don't would like to see the tuners put their money where their mouths are and back up their work like anyone else out there has to with a warranty that does what it says on the tin.

Is that so unreasonable a request?

Do you guys know whether a tuned car has ever had a warranty issue and had the warranty rejected? For a fact? If you don't then I can't see any other research that is relevant. Nick being one of the first to get it done doesn't suggest research to me, it suggests pioneering, again - fair play but statistically insignificant.

Perhaps I'm too risk averse, that may explain why I don't have the funds to throw at these things

Let's put it another way - will the tuners, or you guys pay for my car if BMW reject the warranty on the basis of the damage being due to the car being tuned? No? You have to ask yourself why not. Because it is a risk, otherwise the tuners don't need small print. I don't mind taking educated risks, it'd just be nice if everyone including the tuners admitted the fact that it is a risk.

[peppernick]

BTW, I am not part of a tuning company. Below is my opinion.

would like to see the tuners put their money where their mouths are and back up their work like anyone else out there has to with a warranty that does what it says on the tin.

That's what I'm getting at. Majority of tuners don't (CAA doesn't) but for those who does, I suggest you double and triple check with them re: small prints, and not taking their word for it that their 'warranty' is what you perceive it to be. I'm not denying it's not a risk, but so is everything we do in life. But some are more calculated than others.

Is that so unreasonable a request?

It's a very reasonable request. But for bigger tuning companies, they have to deal with one of yourself to 20 others who are more than happy to just throw money at them to get their cars re-mapped because the golden 'warranty' was perceived as hold all, be all.

Do you guys know whether a tuned car has ever had a warranty issue and had the warranty rejected? For a fact?

I had a supercharged 330ci and a modified E46 M3 before my 335D. I've had warranty work done without a questions asked.

This is because the cars were still within the 3 year manufacturer warranty. Hence, my dealer got paid for carrying out all the work regardless (they even replaced parts that don't need replacing). And they kept me happy so I kept going back to them for more work and new cars. They are in a win-win situation. They just have to close one eye, get the job done and get paid. If you get a 'really honest' dealer, you may potentially face some problems, but ..... we don't call them 'stealers' for no reason. They are ruthless in making money. We can capitalise on this.

Once the car is outside of the manufacturer's or AUC warranty, their approach change (this is because extended warranty work are paid for by the dealer themself). It is then, they will be very sticky re: modifications.

Also, in my years of tuning cars, I haven't heard of a BMW engine go bang because of a generic re-map. Tuners are not stupid, they also factor in a huge margin for error on the products they sell.

[silverbmwz3]

Thanks Nick, makes sense.

[330cdsport]

The way I see it is this..... If it causes a lot of worry about warranty, engine wear, etc.... Then DONT DO IT.

A remap is not for you, as you will probably be too worried to drive the car hard in case it breaks down - and there is no enjoyment in that.

I had a juddery clutch at 20000 miles in a 330d sport some years ago which may or may not have been caused by the extra stress of all the torque, but I got the car mapped back to standard, went to the dealer complaining and sure enough - I got a new clutch for free. No questions asked. I then got the car mapped back up again and kept it for another 20000 miles with no recurring problems.

[silverbmwz3]

330cdsport. That's a bit simplistic, how about...if it causes worry about those things look into them and get answers, as Nick suggested and Nick has actually given quite a few answers in this thread.

Not doing things just because they concern you isn't a particularly good way to proceed in life?

[330cdsport]

Originally Posted by silverbmwz3

330cdsport. That's a bit simplistic, how about...if it causes worry about those things look into them and get answers, as Nick suggested and Nick has actually given quite a few answers in this thread.

Not doing things just because they concern you isn't a particularly good way to proceed in life?

Since none of the warranties seem to be worth the webspace they take up, then your worries are justified. i.e. you will probably not be warranted by the tuner if your car goes tits-up.

If this worry was gonna always be in the back of my mind then I personally would not go for a remap - as the driving enjoyment would be diminished by this uncertainty.

Since I feel confident with the remap (call it naivety perhaps) then I can fully enjoy it.

[silverbmwz3]

I suppose we can take some comfort from the fact that people around aren't saying "ooooh what about Jim who had his e30 tuned and the XYZ tuning company warranty didn't stand up"..... i.e. if it had happened there'd be horror stories out there about it?

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

No offence guys but you are a bunch of pussies

The deisel engine blocks are near on bomb proof and sticking an extra 20% power is not going to make the slightest difference.

In the case of the 335d the gearbox is rated at 850nm and the best remap puts it to 700nm tops, plenty of margin there.

The electronics on these cars are there to STOP the cars from blowing up thats why if there is a problem the car is designed to go into limp mode to stop potential damage.

The turbo can handle more power, these are deisel engines not race engines they are not tuned to the max, no where near. for that youd need

1 REALLY BIG TURBOS ( not the standard ones)
2 RACE CAMS( nope they arent on standard cars)
3 RACE EXHAUST WITH 100 CELL CATS ( again aint got these)
4 ULTRA AGGRESSIVE MAPPING TO BURN LOADS OF FUEL (a good map will increase fuel economy)

BMW actually reigns in the power some reasons are

A) marketing ie 286bhp is a bmw favorite, M1 M635csi, 740i, 335d etc etc
B) BMW have to take into consideration the quality of fuel, how some owners will maintain there car or not as is sometimes the case.


On to why there is a huge difference in price.......SALES TECHNIQUE, and fitting.

These are businesses to make money. If all mappers could charge 3k for a remap they would.

DMS has a very aggressive marketing campaign in more or less every ,magazine. As i used to own an advertising company i can tell you take aint cheap CAA are now doing the same thing.

Sending a REMAPPER all over the UK is expensive.

The software cost money to write/buy

some of the smaller mappers buy in mapps and cant charge a premium because nobody as heard of them so the price is low to break the market( not everyone will pay 500-1000). some people want a £250 remapp and there are companies who fit the bill.

IMO DMS offer a warranty because they know the car wont break simple as.
ALSO dealers dont give a monkey id the car is remapped or not BMW pay the dealer to fix the car, so the dealer makes money if a car breaks.

DEISEL bmw are the best deseils out there, stop worrting and enjoy the ride.


STEVE>

and if you want massive power, the 4 things steve said and also these

and forged low comp pistons,
massive intercooler
water injection maybe
solid lifters
some head work
decomp plate to lower compression even more (i love BOOOOOST:rocks
higher pressure fuel pump
higher flow rate injectors
bigger actuators for the turbos
sme decent bloody hosing
steel crank and rods
long studding

man i love tuning, just it costs so much money and to do it to a new car is pretty crazy.. but a re-map i think is value for money...

makes a quick car quicker!!:rocks:

Carlos

[330cdsport]

Originally Posted by silverbmwz3

I suppose we can take some comfort from the fact that people around aren't saying "ooooh what about Jim who had his e30 tuned and the XYZ tuning company warranty didn't stand up"..... i.e. if it had happened there'd be horror stories out there about it?

Thats for sure.
I would definitely be getting a bit on edge if we began hearing of remapped E9X's going bang all over the place.
Personally, I have heard of no such case yet. Fingers crossed

[Hotcoupe]

I had my 330D remapped by DMS some 14 mths ago, stonking performance + great fuel economy despite the added power, which added together make for a totally different driving experience.
I have covered some 25,000 miles since the remap with no problems whatsoever.
As with all things, I researched the subject of remapping at great length, spoke to lots of people about the pro's and cons of a remap and took it from there.I have only ever experienced the pro's.
I have yet to hear of any horror stories that could be directly attributable to a remap and my 335D (when it arrives) will at some point have a remap.

If concerns about warranties & potential damage to the car are an issue for anyone, don't have a remap, simple.

[330cdsport]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

I had my 330D remapped by DMS some 14 mths ago, stonking performance + great fuel economy despite the added power, which added together make for a totally different driving experience.
I have covered some 25,000 miles since the remap with no problems whatsoever.
As with all things, I researched the subject of remapping at great length, spoke to lots of people about the pro's and cons of a remap and took it from there.I have only ever experienced the pro's.
I have yet to hear of any horror stories that could be directly attributable to a remap and my 335D (when it arrives) will at some point have a remap.

If concerns about warranties & potential damage to the car are an issue for anyone, don't have a remap, simple.

The clutch judder problem that i got was with the older 184bhp 5 speed box. I assumed at the time it was the extra torque from the remap, but then I have since been in other BMW's that were not remapped and also had this clutch judder. So not sure what the cause of it was.

I had no such problem with the 204bhp 6 speeder.

Since you have an auto, it wont even be an issue.

[Steve A]

another way to look at the warranty situation is to ask this question.. Does anyone know anybody whos had a remap and then had a problem that the dealer refuses to fix, that they say the remap caused? i for one dont.

Now then, How many cars are remapped in the uk? answer many 10s of thousands...

I think playing the numbers game makes the risk negligable...


and come on silver dont take it personally you're not the only pussy here That was a joke now calm down

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

and if you want massive power, the 4 things steve said and also these

and forged low comp pistons,
massive intercooler
water injection maybe
solid lifters
some head work
decomp plate to lower compression even more (i love BOOOOOST:rocks
higher pressure fuel pump
higher flow rate injectors
bigger actuators for the turbos
sme decent bloody hosing
steel crank and rods
long studding

man i love tuning, just it costs so much money and to do it to a new car is pretty crazy.. but a re-map i think is value for money...

makes a quick car quicker!!:rocks:

Carlos

anyone interested in doin all the above mentioned to a 335d???:rocks:

Carlos

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

anyone interested in doin all the above mentioned to a 335d???:rocks:

Carlos

Carl have you got a spare 25k? if so ill have a go

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

Carl have you got a spare 25k? if so ill have a go

i havent, i will ask daddy


im sure you have steve

Carl.....os

[silverbmwz3]

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton

another way to look at the warranty situation is to ask this question.. Does anyone know anybody whos had a remap and then had a problem that the dealer refuses to fix, that they say the remap caused? i for one dont.

Now then, How many cars are remapped in the uk? answer many 10s of thousands...

I think playing the numbers game makes the risk negligable...


and come on silver dont take it personally you're not the only pussy here That was a joke now calm down

I think you'll find I put that question earlier Steve, c'mon - read the thread!
As for not being the only p**** here, I didn't take it personally - I'm just wondering how you'd know what one looked like

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

i havent, i will ask daddy


im sure you have steve

Carl.....os

plenty mate but not to blow on a deisel

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by silverbmwz3

I think you'll find I put that question earlier Steve, c'mon - read the thread!
As for not being the only p**** here, I didn't take it personally - I'm just wondering how you'd know what one looked like

oooooooooooooooooooooo!

and regarding what a pussy looks like, just follow your nose

[silverbmwz3]

I'll resist the temptation to make any jokes about ending up at the fish counter at Morrisons

[ChrisMWard]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

anyone interested in doin all the above mentioned to a 335d???:rocks:

Carlos

Fine for a petrol engine Carlos, but unfortunately doesn't work the same for diesels.

Forget your low comp pistons, decompression plate and water injection. Even head work won't give much benefit with the boost levels required.

The 335d already has a steel crank and rods.

A bigger turbo, intercooler and fuelling system will see you allright.

Reliable 125bhp / litre is achievable with current diesel technology but this will increase as newer developments come through. 150bhp / litre racing diesels are lasting the whole season without being touched. There is a lot more to come with diesel development and fortunately BMW know this (they sell more diesel engined cars than petrol now).

The good news for you though Carlos is that it will be cheaper to tune a diesel than your petrol motor.

Regards

Chris