Help Me Diagnose Stumbling Idle/Stalling

azw131 · 06-17-2018, 10:06 PM

I know this is a problem that has impacted other members, with various root causes (Vacuum leak, VANOS Solenoids, Spark Plugs/Coils)

I have a 2011 335i Xdrive 6mt. When coasting to a stop in neutral or when repeatedly going in and out of gear in bumper to bumper traffic, my engine will shut off. This does not happen often, maybe once every few weeks. My car also has hunting idle at red lights, and the RPMS will often dip down to below 500, the car shakes and seems like it is going to stall, then the RPMS return up to around 600 RPM.

My engine is entirely stock, but has the PPK installed from new at the BMW dealership. It has 40,000 miles and never shows any CEL with these symptoms. I pulled the error logs in INPA and have attached them here. I am hoping someone can tell me what they think the root of the problem is.

Rotorocious · 06-17-2018, 11:16 PM

I'm on MHD but i had this happen and i was able to reset the throttle adaptation. that fixed it and hasn't been an issue in weeks. I'd give that a shot in INPA and see if it helps. I know it's in there somewhere

azw131 · 06-17-2018, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rotorocious

I'm on MHD but i had this happen and i was able to reset the throttle adaptation. that fixed it and hasn't been an issue in weeks. I'd give that a shot in INPA and see if it helps. I know it's in there somewhere

Interesting, I'd be very pleased if that's how simple the solution is.

Rotorocious · 06-17-2018, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

Interesting, I'd be very pleased if that's how simple the solution is.

It likely isn't but worth a shot and a few key clicks.

Supermoon · 06-17-2018, 11:48 PM

Well, if your PPK was installed from new you definitely wanna update it.
I heard earlier versions of PPK have that low idling issue.

azw131 · 06-18-2018, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Well, if your PPK was installed from new you definitely wanna update it.
I heard earlier versions of PPK have that low idling issue.

Is there a way to get access to the latest version and flash it myself?

Supermoon · 06-18-2018, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

Is there a way to get access to the latest version and flash it myself?

Yes but not worth your time imo.
Just ask the dealership to update your DME and mention you have PPK installed.
They'll take care of the rest.

azw131 · 06-18-2018, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

Is there a way to get access to the latest version and flash it myself?

Yes but not worth your time imo.
Just ask the dealership to update your DME and mention you have PPK installed.
They'll take care of the rest.

That might be a good starting point. I believe it's about $100 to have the DME flashed by them. This may not matter, but I'm planning on going FBO and flashing with MHD in the next few months. Would It still be worth having the dealer update the DME if I'll be tuning It with MHD moving forward anyways?

Supermoon · 06-18-2018, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

That might be a good starting point. I believe it's about $100 to have the DME flashed by them. This may not matter, but I'm planning on going FBO and flashing with MHD in the next few months. Would It still be worth having the dealer update the DME if I'll be tuning It with MHD moving forward anyways?

Afaik, MHD doesn't completely overwrite features of PPK.
You can flash PPK yourself but it's only worth it if you didn't pay for the FSC code.
I'd rather pay $100 to have my DME software updated.
There are many things that can go wrong.

azw131 · 06-18-2018, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

That might be a good starting point. I believe it's about $100 to have the DME flashed by them. This may not matter, but I'm planning on going FBO and flashing with MHD in the next few months. Would It still be worth having the dealer update the DME if I'll be tuning It with MHD moving forward anyways?

Afaik, MHD doesn't completely overwrite features of PPK.
You can flash PPK yourself but it's only worth it if you didn't pay for the FSC code.
I'd rather pay $100 to have my DME software updated.
There are many things that can go wrong.

That's the plan then. Thanks for the advice!

Supermoon · 06-18-2018, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

That's the plan then. Thanks for the advice!

If you're going to get MHD anyways I'd try MHD Stage 1 map first to see if it fixes the issue.
If it doesn't, you can uninstall before going into a dealership. MHD will restore your ppk.

azw131 · 06-18-2018, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

That's the plan then. Thanks for the advice!

If you're going to get MHD anyways I'd try MHD Stage 1 map first to see if it fixes the issue.
If it doesn't, you can uninstall before going into a dealership. MHD will restore your ppk.

That probably makes the most sense. Could potentially save the $100 and if not just have the dealer do it.

eyehategod · 06-19-2018, 09:38 AM

I wasn't having any engine shut off issues, but the rest of your symptoms I've had on mine. An inconsistent, stuttering idle, loss of power at low RPM, etc. I ended up switching to the MHD E30 map and mixing some E85 into the tank. First time I started it up, I'd never seen the engine idle so perfectly. For me, it was bad fuel, even though I'm on the east coast and had only been putting 93 octane in it.

azw131 · 06-19-2018, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyehategod

I wasn't having any engine shut off issues, but the rest of your symptoms I've had on mine. An inconsistent, stuttering idle, loss of power at low RPM, etc. I ended up switching to the MHD E30 map and mixing some E85 into the tank. First time I started it up, I'd never seen the engine idle so perfectly. For me, it was bad fuel, even though I'm on the east coast and had only been putting 93 octane in it.

Interesting, I'm also on the East Coast and only use 93. I go to a variety of gas stations so unless they all have bad gas I'm not sure that would be my problem. Nonetheless, something to investigate.

eyehategod · 06-19-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

Interesting, I'm also on the East Coast and only use 93. I go to a variety of gas stations so unless they all have bad gas I'm not sure that would be my problem. Nonetheless, something to investigate.

Yup - I do too. Near Washington DC, and I got anywhere from Exxon to Sunoco, etc. Switching to E30 specifically improved timing corrections across the board, bad idles and loss of power at low RPM (traffic). Give it a shot if you have MHD and some E85 nearby.

das_blau · 06-28-2018, 08:41 AM

I have a 2011 BMW 335i 6MT and had the same issue a couple years ago. I searched around and found out there was a technical service bulletin posted to fix this issue when idling, disengaging the clutch, etc for the symptoms you described. Since this is like a "recall", you should not have to pay for them to do it. Check to see if this has been done or not - if not, hopefully this fixes your issue.

https://www.scribd.com/document/1519...T-Stalling-TSB

This is the TSB that was done on my car and it fixed the issue - never experienced the problem since.

azw131 · 06-28-2018, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by das_blau

I have a 2011 BMW 335i 6MT and had the same issue a couple years ago. I searched around and found out there was a technical service bulletin posted to fix this issue when idling, disengaging the clutch, etc for the symptoms you described. Since this is like a "recall", you should not have to pay for them to do it. Check to see if this has been done or not - if not, hopefully this fixes your issue.

https://www.scribd.com/document/1519...T-Stalling-TSB

This is the TSB that was done on my car and it fixed the issue - never experienced the problem since.

Thanks for that. I am familiar with this TSB. I bought my car from the original owner in December who had always serviced the car at the dealer so I believe the DME is up to date. That TSB is from a while back

das_blau · 06-29-2018, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azw131

Thanks for that. I am familiar with this TSB. I bought my car from the original owner in December who had always serviced the car at the dealer so I believe the DME is up to date. That TSB is from a while back

Good deal. The guy that previously owned mine also kept up-to-date with service fairly well at BMW dealers; and to my surprise, my local BMW dealer didn't know anything about the TSB until I brought it to their attention (poor on them I guess). Glad you're aware of it - hope you resolve your issue soon. I guess it never hurts to ask them if you end up bringing it in to BMW. Good luck!

Nickbchillin · 11-17-2021, 07:40 AM

I’ve been having the same problem with my 2011 335i 6sp with BMS intake and ARM chargepipe/intercooler. I do not have the PPK though. Would you still recommend getting the DME flashed? It started doing this maybe one a week but now it is almost daily as I’m in line to drop off/pick up my kid at school. Just replaced all my coils and it did nothing. Any help is greatly appreciated.

wheela · 11-17-2021, 08:00 AM

If you still have your stock airbox parts, I'd try removing that BMS intake. I've never used it, but from reading the forums alot of people have problems with it, as it will throw off your MAF readings - unless you re-tune your MAF settings to account for it.

Also, actual gains from this intake are debatable. The efr speedtech kits can make over 600 whp with the stock airbox. That tells me the stock intake actually isn't that restrictive.

The intake may not fully explain the issues you're having, but it certainly isn't helping.

06-17-2018, 10:06 PM	#1
azw131 Second Lieutenant 34 Rep 264 Posts Drives: 2011 335i Xdrive M Sport Coupe Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Boston iTrader: (2)	Help Me Diagnose Stumbling Idle/Stalling I know this is a problem that has impacted other members, with various root causes (Vacuum leak, VANOS Solenoids, Spark Plugs/Coils) I have a 2011 335i Xdrive 6mt. When coasting to a stop in neutral or when repeatedly going in and out of gear in bumper to bumper traffic, my engine will shut off. This does not happen often, maybe once every few weeks. My car also has hunting idle at red lights, and the RPMS will often dip down to below 500, the car shakes and seems like it is going to stall, then the RPMS return up to around 600 RPM. My engine is entirely stock, but has the PPK installed from new at the BMW dealership. It has 40,000 miles and never shows any CEL with these symptoms. I pulled the error logs in INPA and have attached them here. I am hoping someone can tell me what they think the root of the problem is. Attached Images __________________ Current Vehicles: 2007 911 Turbo 6MT, 2011 335i Xdrive M Sport Coupe Past Vehicles: 2014 Porsche Boxster S,1983 Porsche 911 "RSR", 2013 Audi S4, 2011 335i Xdrive M Sport Coupe, 2015 M235i, 2011 335i Xdrive Coupe, 2006 330i, 2012 WRX, 2011 Camaro V6, 2004 325Xi
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06-17-2018, 11:16 PM	#2
Rotorocious Lieutenant Colonel 103 Rep 1,520 Posts Drives: 335xi Join Date: May 2010 Location: Colorado iTrader: (3)	I'm on MHD but i had this happen and i was able to reset the throttle adaptation. that fixed it and hasn't been an issue in weeks. I'd give that a shot in INPA and see if it helps. I know it's in there somewhere
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06-17-2018, 11:48 PM	#5
Supermoon Lieutenant 166 Rep 429 Posts Drives: 2011 e92 335xi Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Seoul iTrader: (6) Garage List 2011 BMW 335i xDriv ... [10.00]	Well, if your PPK was installed from new you definitely wanna update it. I heard earlier versions of PPK have that low idling issue. __________________ 2011 E92 335i xDrive Pure Stage 1 \| DV+ & Inlet \| Injen Intake \| M3 Cowl \| ETS 5" FMIC & CP \| Aquamist HFS4 Direct Port \| CSF Radiator \| Wagner Catted DP \| BMW PE \| Apex FL-5 \| Michelin PS4S \| 335is Engine mount \| SDW Monoball thrust arms \| UUC Swaybars & SS Brake lines \| Bilstein B8 \| Dinan Springs & Shock mounts \| Whiteline RSFB \| M3 Rear Control arms \| Manzo Toe arms \| Wavetrac LSD
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06-19-2018, 09:38 AM	#13
eyehategod Second Lieutenant 40 Rep 220 Posts Drives: 2012 335i Xdrive (E92) Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Washington D.C. iTrader: (0)	I wasn't having any engine shut off issues, but the rest of your symptoms I've had on mine. An inconsistent, stuttering idle, loss of power at low RPM, etc. I ended up switching to the MHD E30 map and mixing some E85 into the tank. First time I started it up, I'd never seen the engine idle so perfectly. For me, it was bad fuel, even though I'm on the east coast and had only been putting 93 octane in it. __________________ And when I die, make sure you spread my blood on a BMW 2012 E92 335i xdrive \| KW V1 Coilovers \| ER Chargepipe \| VRSF 7" HD \| VRSF Catless DP \| MHD Stage 2+ \| xHP Stage 3
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06-28-2018, 08:41 AM	#16
das_blau New Member 7 Rep 20 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 335i xDrive 6MT Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Des Moines, IA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 Ram 1500 [0.00] 2011 BMW 335i xDrive [0.00]	I have a 2011 BMW 335i 6MT and had the same issue a couple years ago. I searched around and found out there was a technical service bulletin posted to fix this issue when idling, disengaging the clutch, etc for the symptoms you described. Since this is like a "recall", you should not have to pay for them to do it. Check to see if this has been done or not - if not, hopefully this fixes your issue. https://www.scribd.com/document/1519...T-Stalling-TSB This is the TSB that was done on my car and it fixed the issue - never experienced the problem since.
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11-17-2021, 07:40 AM	#19
Nickbchillin New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 335i Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Charlotte NC iTrader: (0)	I’ve been having the same problem with my 2011 335i 6sp with BMS intake and ARM chargepipe/intercooler. I do not have the PPK though. Would you still recommend getting the DME flashed? It started doing this maybe one a week but now it is almost daily as I’m in line to drop off/pick up my kid at school. Just replaced all my coils and it did nothing. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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11-17-2021, 08:00 AM	#20
wheela Captain 267 Rep 688 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW X1 35i M-sport Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Twin Cities MN iTrader: (0)	If you still have your stock airbox parts, I'd try removing that BMS intake. I've never used it, but from reading the forums alot of people have problems with it, as it will throw off your MAF readings - unless you re-tune your MAF settings to account for it. Also, actual gains from this intake are debatable. The efr speedtech kits can make over 600 whp with the stock airbox. That tells me the stock intake actually isn't that restrictive. The intake may not fully explain the issues you're having, but it certainly isn't helping.
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