Insurance not paying out - Screwed for the next 4 years, life is over

dxb335d · 02-12-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenon

You guys are mixing up criminal law and civil law as I said earlier. Forget all this "innocent until proven guilty" stuff, it's not relevant.

What he said ^^^^^

Teutonicdriver · 02-12-2010, 09:54 AM

In a Civil court the judgement is made on the basis of probability rather than the Criminal Courts basis of proven beyond reasonable doubt. If they can show that in all probability he fronted that policy they will win the case.

kgb1637 · 02-12-2010, 09:54 AM

The OP said he was not the main driver but he was the one selling the car, he was the one meeting the fellow to sell it. If I was listed as a second driver on my parents car, and the car was for sale, I wouldn't be the one selling the car, that would be my father. I agree, its ok for the OP to dodge and get cheaper rates by deceiving the company but then not ok for them to sniff it out and not pay out.

warriorboy · 02-12-2010, 09:57 AM

all this innocent till proven guilty malarkey is all very well, but they have the money and he doesnt and if he goes the legal route he wont get it for some time even if he successfully argues his case.

probably seemed a good idea at the time, not so much so now.

Lets all learn from other's mistakes not our own.

xenon · 02-12-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonicdriver

In a Civil court the judgement is made on the basis of probability rather than the Criminal Courts basis of proven beyond reasonable doubt. If they can show that in all probability he fronted that policy they will win the case.

Correct, and was the point I was attempting to make.

Teutonicdriver · 02-12-2010, 10:03 AM

Ah well, maybe he will be starting a similar thread on the Corsa Forum next year.

toxicnerve · 02-12-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonicdriver

Ah well, maybe he will be starting a similar thread on the Corsa Forum next year.

Poor guy, hopefully we will hear from him soon and he will clear this up. I hope for his sake he's been honest with the insurance company (and us) and gets his money back.

Dave_3 · 02-12-2010, 10:10 AM

Small question.

Never having tried to sell a car in the UK when I have had a £25k outstanding loan on it.

How does it work, when he is selling "his" car to a third party with that outstanding loan/finance. Is that flagged up when you do an HPI on it ?

Or is that only dealer loans/finance ?

D.

rogerxp · 02-12-2010, 10:16 AM

When I've done this (sold my 335i privately with outstanding BMW finance on it) the buyer TT'd the money over to my account. Arrived first thing, checked the car over, called the bank and it was done. Can take a few hours to physically clear through the system so you either trust them or wait until your bank has confirmed it's there. You then TT the money to the finance company who confirm it's their a couple of hours later. Or the buyer can simply transfer the cash directly to the finance company to speed things up. There is always an element of trust going on. Who's to say he drives off in the car and you never clear the finance; could get messy but I suppose only for the person who's name the finance is in.

xenon · 02-12-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerxp

but I suppose only for the person who's name the finance is in.

And the "owner" of the new car - if it still belongs to the finance company because you didn't settle the outstanding finance then he's not the legal owner no matter what he's paid to you.

Teutonicdriver · 02-12-2010, 10:31 AM

The OP posted this shortly after buying his car when talking about insurance.........
"I am with BMW Insurance - 24 yrs old with a 6 month ban"

And there rests our case your honour

toxicnerve · 02-12-2010, 10:38 AM

This:

dxb335d · 02-12-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonicdriver

The OP posted this shortly after buying his car when asking about insurance.........
"I am with BMW Insurance - 24 yrs old with a 6 month ban"

And there rests our case your honour

and what does that mean then? Im confused.

Hotcoupe · 02-12-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

and what does that mean then? Im confused.

Have you read the whole thread Carl?

dxb335d · 02-12-2010, 10:46 AM

Yes Ian, can't see what the OP said about insurance when he first joined is relevant?!

xenon · 02-12-2010, 10:48 AM

It means that as a young bloke with a previous ban his insurance on a BMW would have been horrendous. Hence, looks more likely it would have been fronted.

dxb335d · 02-12-2010, 10:49 AM

Oh ok, got ya.

So your implying it was fronted, without any real confirmation?!

OK got ya.

Teutonicdriver · 02-12-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Oh ok, got ya.

So your implying it was fronted, without any real confirmation?!

OK got ya.

No implication, just an indication of the sort of thing that any insurance company would use to show the likelihood that the policy may have been fronted.
Its gonna be an uphill battle for the young chap.

xenon · 02-12-2010, 11:00 AM

...and as has been said, balance of probability is the issue. Hopefully the OP can dig up something to demonstrate that was not the case.

Hotcoupe · 02-12-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonicdriver

No implication, just an indication of the sort of thing that any insurance company would use to show the likelihood that the policy may have been fronted.
Its gonna be an uphill battle for the young chap.

The father's RAV 4 won't do him any favours either.

It's certainly going to be a tough fight, if he's going to take it on.

Irnbrukid · 02-12-2010, 12:30 PM

Can he sell a car he is not the registered owner of?

Teutonicdriver · 02-12-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irnbrukid

Can he sell a car he is not the registered owner of?

He can sell it on behalf of his dad I suppose.

02-12-2010, 09:54 AM	#134
Teutonicdriver Lieutenant 10 Rep 436 Posts Drives: 320d M Sport Business Edition Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Yorks iTrader: (1)	In a Civil court the judgement is made on the basis of probability rather than the Criminal Courts basis of proven beyond reasonable doubt. If they can show that in all probability he fronted that policy they will win the case.
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02-12-2010, 09:54 AM	#135
kgb1637 Lieutenant Colonel 21 Rep 1,519 Posts Drives: RS5 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	The OP said he was not the main driver but he was the one selling the car, he was the one meeting the fellow to sell it. If I was listed as a second driver on my parents car, and the car was for sale, I wouldn't be the one selling the car, that would be my father. I agree, its ok for the OP to dodge and get cheaper rates by deceiving the company but then not ok for them to sniff it out and not pay out. __________________ Retired - '08 E90 335i Sparkling Graphite/Gray Dakota Leather, ZSP, ZCW, ZPP, Navi, ipod, Sat
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02-12-2010, 09:57 AM	#136
warriorboy Private First Class 2 Rep 114 Posts Drives: 320d M Sport coupe Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NW England iTrader: (1)	all this innocent till proven guilty malarkey is all very well, but they have the money and he doesnt and if he goes the legal route he wont get it for some time even if he successfully argues his case. probably seemed a good idea at the time, not so much so now. Lets all learn from other's mistakes not our own.
	Appreciate 0

02-12-2010, 10:03 AM	#138
Teutonicdriver Lieutenant 10 Rep 436 Posts Drives: 320d M Sport Business Edition Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Yorks iTrader: (1)	Ah well, maybe he will be starting a similar thread on the Corsa Forum next year.
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02-12-2010, 10:10 AM	#140
Dave_3 Brigadier General 652 Rep 3,445 Posts Drives: G22 M440D Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: CH / SCO iTrader: (0) Garage List 1973 Escort RS2000 MK1 [10.00]	Small question. Never having tried to sell a car in the UK when I have had a £25k outstanding loan on it. How does it work, when he is selling "his" car to a third party with that outstanding loan/finance. Is that flagged up when you do an HPI on it ? Or is that only dealer loans/finance ? D. __________________ Escort Mk1 RS2000 (2.1 2x44IDFS, BVH, Kent FR32, 5spd, 180 BHP) : M440D ¦ Previously : F32 435D : F32 430D M Sport sDrive, 335D E92 2006
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02-12-2010, 10:16 AM	#141
rogerxp Major General 165 Rep 5,950 Posts Drives: M3 Comp Pack / QQ+2 Tekna Join Date: May 2008 Location: Stockport, Cheshire iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 350Z GT Roadster [2.00] 2004 Honda S2000 [0.00] 2005 Nissan 350Z GT ... [0.00] 2006 E92 BMW 335i SE [9.00] 2003 Maserati 4200 [6.00] 2006 E90 330d M Sport [0.00]	When I've done this (sold my 335i privately with outstanding BMW finance on it) the buyer TT'd the money over to my account. Arrived first thing, checked the car over, called the bank and it was done. Can take a few hours to physically clear through the system so you either trust them or wait until your bank has confirmed it's there. You then TT the money to the finance company who confirm it's their a couple of hours later. Or the buyer can simply transfer the cash directly to the finance company to speed things up. There is always an element of trust going on. Who's to say he drives off in the car and you never clear the finance; could get messy but I suppose only for the person who's name the finance is in. __________________ Current -: MW E92 M3 Competition Pack / Qashqai+2 Tekna 1.6dci Gone -: 370Z GT Roadster; BMW X3 3.0d xdrive M Sport; E46 330i M Sport Coupe; Mazda RX8 231; Nissan 350Z GT Roadster; BMW E90 330d M Sport; BMW E92 335i SE; Maserati 4200; Nissan 350Z; Honda S2000; Astra Coupe Turbo; Ford Probe
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02-12-2010, 10:31 AM	#143
Teutonicdriver Lieutenant 10 Rep 436 Posts Drives: 320d M Sport Business Edition Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Yorks iTrader: (1)	The OP posted this shortly after buying his car when talking about insurance......... "I am with BMW Insurance - 24 yrs old with a 6 month ban" And there rests our case your honour Last edited by Teutonicdriver; 02-12-2010 at 10:59 AM..
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02-12-2010, 10:38 AM	#144
toxicnerve Colonel 97 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	This: Attached Images
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02-12-2010, 10:46 AM	#147
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 949 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Yes Ian, can't see what the OP said about insurance when he first joined is relevant?! __________________ 997.2 GT3
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02-12-2010, 10:48 AM	#148
xenon Major General 1394 Rep 8,082 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	It means that as a young bloke with a previous ban his insurance on a BMW would have been horrendous. Hence, looks more likely it would have been fronted. __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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02-12-2010, 10:49 AM	#149
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 949 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Oh ok, got ya. So your implying it was fronted, without any real confirmation?! OK got ya. __________________ 997.2 GT3
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02-12-2010, 11:00 AM	#151
xenon Major General 1394 Rep 8,082 Posts Drives: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coventry iTrader: (0)	...and as has been said, balance of probability is the issue. Hopefully the OP can dig up something to demonstrate that was not the case. __________________ Ian Current: 2021 G21 330i M-Sport Previous: 2018 A6 Avant S-Line MMI+, 2014 F31 320d M-Sport, 2013 F10 520d M-Sport, 2011 F10 530d M-Sport, 2008 320i M-Sport Coupe, 2002 325i, 2001 318i valvetronic, 1998 318i, 1996 525i, 1990 Porsche 944S2
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02-12-2010, 12:30 PM	#153
Irnbrukid Major 45 Rep 1,486 Posts Drives: Imaginary M2 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Scotland iTrader: (0)	Can he sell a car he is not the registered owner of?
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