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      12-20-2011, 06:53 PM   #1
orionredwing
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Transmission Oil Leak + Engine Overtemp Problems

Lots of cars getting up in there in mileage now (mine is 82K), so adding some more info. My car is in the shop at the moment, undrivable due to engine overtemp warnings coming up repeatedly (after a week of leaving my car garaged).

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID LEAK:

I'll start off with the ATF fluid (ZF 6HP19). As there are many threads on this already, I'll keep it short. Basically, noticed transmission oil leaked after a week of non-use, and confirmed after my car was put on a lift at the mechanic's. Interesting that others also noticed leaks after leaving their car parked for an extended period of time. Search for the SIB if you're still under warranty.

Luckily, I already ordered the following kit months ago in preparation of my next track event:
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43
$238.03 + shipping

Labor was 1.75 hrs for me.

Lastly, my oil came out black, so if you track your car, this is a MUST do maintenance!

IMPORTANT: 6 liters included in the kit is NOT enough if you're doing a thorough drain. My car was left to drain overnight. I recommend purchasing an extra 2-3 liters at $17.13 from the site. I had to pay $30/liter locally because I didn't stock enough.


ENGINE OVERTEMP (Coolant Temp):
The primary reason for my car being undrivable is due to an engine overtemp warning. I went into the diagnostics settings in the cluster to monitor my water temps (see this thread if you want to know how):
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156

What I saw was that as soon as I started driving the car, the water temps would increase by 1 deg C every sec until it reached 120C, upon which the yellow overtemp warning would pop up. <30 secs later, it would turn to RED, thereby eliminating all power to car, requiring me to coast to the side of the freeway and stop.

After restarting the car, the water temps would read 69C, and would once again proceed to increase at 1 deg C per sec until same error occurs. I can hear the fan running at max speed the entire time.

At the mechanic, my car was placed on a lift and inspected. When the cover was removed, immediately saw coolant leaks on the left and right side. Also, my intercooler had obvious signs of coolant leaks. Engine was NOT hot. In fact, my mechanic even opened the coolant cap, and the coolant was still full. I even placed my hands on the plastic engine cover, and it was cool. It's currently 40F in the mornings, in the Bay Area.

BT SCAN revealed these codes:
2E82 Elctrical cooling pump: switch off
2E8E Intelligent battery sensor, communication
2E81 Elctrical cooling pump:, speed deviation

Before leaving for the shop, I tested my Electric cooling pump using the bleeding procedure mentioned in the coolant DIY replacement threads (search). I confirmed my electric pump was working.

At this point, my mechanic mentioned my radiator may be cracked (I will confirm later today). He went ahead and replaced the radiator and some hoses (not sure which).

Unfortunately, the issue is still present. Next step is to change the electric sensor. I will find out later today if this is the solution. My mechanic doesn't believe the thermostat to be the problem. If this doesn't resolve the issue, he believes there may be an electronics issue.

As of now, it's unconfirmed if I actually have a cracked radiator. It may have been a hose issue, which means the radiator replacement may have been an unnecessary expense. To be honest, I'm a little bummed, since I track my car, and could've used the opportunity to investigate an aftermarket radiator alternative. But I am currently carless, and taking public transportation, so the priority is to get the car up and running before Xmas so my holiday plans are not placed in jeopardy.

Since I track my car, I refilled w/ a low ~25% coolant:water ratio, and also added 2 bottles of Motul MoCool along with it. I'm in California, so don't have to worry about freezing conditions. I will post pics when I have time.

Labor: Currently 2.75 hrs for radiator replacement, which obviously includes coolant flush.

Other Facts (if an electrical issue):
A month ago (Nov 2011), I replaced my battery with a Walmart battery. It seems to be working fine, and I did charge my battery overnight and cleared codes before driving to the mechanic. I also inspected my wiring, including the IBS, and everything looks ok. Unfortunately, overtemp error still occurred. Some people theorized that the wrong battery may not be supplying sufficient voltage or current, however battery problem is lower on the probable cause list for now.

Total Cost: >$1K (ouch, hehe)

Will update more later but if you have any similar experiences, or feedback, would appreciate your input.
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Last edited by orionredwing; 12-20-2011 at 07:18 PM.
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      12-20-2011, 07:17 PM   #2
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I had the same problem, shop thought it was the radiator and it turns out that it wasnt.
Here is what they fixed.


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      12-20-2011, 07:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpphreakx06 View Post
I had the same problem, shop thought it was the radiator and it turns out that it wasnt.
Thanks for sharing! If that's your cost for each line item, ouch at your repair cost! What was the actual solution? Looks like the lines on the bottom are where they started, with the top item being the last thing they did? I will have my mechanic inspect the same places if my problem's not fixed with the sensor replacement.
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      12-20-2011, 07:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Lots of cars getting up in there in mileage now (mine is 82K), so adding some more info. My car is in the shop at the moment, undrivable due to engine overtemp warnings coming up repeatedly (after a week of leaving my car garaged).

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID LEAK:

I'll start off with the ATF fluid (ZF 6HP19). As there are many threads on this already, I'll keep it short. Basically, noticed transmission oil leaked after a week of non-use, and confirmed after my car was put on a lift at the mechanic's. Interesting that others also noticed leaks after leaving their car parked for an extended period of time. Search for the SIB if you're still under warranty.

Luckily, I already ordered the following kit months ago in preparation of my next track event:
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43
$238.03 + shipping

Labor was 1.75 hrs for me.

Lastly, my oil came out black, so if you track your car, this is a MUST do maintenance!

IMPORTANT: 6 liters included in the kit is NOT enough if you're doing a thorough drain. My car was left to drain overnight. I recommend purchasing an extra 2-3 liters at $17.13 from the site. I had to pay $30/liter locally because I didn't stock enough.


ENGINE OVERTEMP (Coolant Temp):
The primary reason for my car being undrivable is due to an engine overtemp warning. I went into the diagnostics settings in the cluster to monitor my water temps (see this thread if you want to know how):
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156

What I saw was that as soon as I started driving the car, the water temps would increase by 1 deg C every sec until it reached 120C, upon which the yellow overtemp warning would pop up. <30 secs later, it would turn to RED, thereby eliminating all power to car, requiring me to coast to the side of the freeway and stop.

After restarting the car, the water temps would read 69C, and would once again proceed to increase at 1 deg C per sec until same error occurs. I can hear the fan running at max speed the entire time.

At the mechanic, my car was placed on a lift and inspected. When the cover was removed, immediately saw coolant leaks on the left and right side. Also, my intercooler had obvious signs of coolant leaks. Engine was NOT hot. In fact, my mechanic even opened the coolant cap, and the coolant was still full. I even placed my hands on the plastic engine cover, and it was cool. It's currently 40F in the mornings, in the Bay Area.

BT SCAN revealed these codes:
2E82 Elctrical cooling pump: switch off
2E8E Intelligent battery sensor, communication
2E81 Elctrical cooling pump:, speed deviation

Before leaving for the shop, I tested my Electric cooling pump using the bleeding procedure mentioned in the coolant DIY replacement threads (search). I confirmed my electric pump was working.

At this point, my mechanic mentioned my radiator may be cracked (I will confirm later today). He went ahead and replaced the radiator and some hoses (not sure which).

Unfortunately, the issue is still present. Next step is to change the electric sensor. I will find out later today if this is the solution. My mechanic doesn't believe the thermostat to be the problem. If this doesn't resolve the issue, he believes there may be an electronics issue.

As of now, it's unconfirmed if I actually have a cracked radiator. It may have been a hose issue, which means the radiator replacement may have been an unnecessary expense. To be honest, I'm a little bummed, since I track my car, and could've used the opportunity to investigate an aftermarket radiator alternative. But I am currently carless, and taking public transportation, so the priority is to get the car up and running before Xmas so my holiday plans are not placed in jeopardy.

Since I track my car, I refilled w/ a low ~25% coolant:water ratio, and also added 2 bottles of Motul MoCool along with it. I'm in California, so don't have to worry about freezing conditions. I will post pics when I have time.

Labor: Currently 2.75 hrs for radiator replacement, which obviously includes coolant flush.

Other Facts (if an electrical issue):
A month ago (Nov 2011), I replaced my battery with a Walmart battery. It seems to be working fine, and I did charge my battery overnight and cleared codes before driving to the mechanic. I also inspected my wiring, including the IBS, and everything looks ok. Unfortunately, overtemp error still occurred. Some people theorized that the wrong battery may not be supplying sufficient voltage or current, however battery problem is lower on the probable cause list for now.

Total Cost: >$1K (ouch, hehe)

Will update more later but if you have any similar experiences, or feedback, would appreciate your input.
are you copying me???

Since my last track event a couple of months ago I'm losing about a gallon of distilled water per month, topping in regularly and placed an order for a replacement radiator. (pin-hole on the radiator).
Also, while the car was on the lift, the mechanic noticed a trans oil leak by what seems to be an electrical connector(?) over the pan, scheduling that one too.

What's odd is that although the leak is obvious on the undertray, not a drop of either fluid made it to my garage floor.
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      12-20-2011, 08:58 PM   #5
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The temperature sensor replacement didn't work. I went back and searched for the codes I got, and it seems people are saying it's a water pump and/or thermostat failure. Can someone who has experience chime in based on the symptoms I'm experiencing?

In the coolant DIY where you bleed the system, is it the same water pump that's running? I would REALLY like to know the answer to this question, since that would allow me to test my pump to see if it's still working!

Process:
1) Ignition ON
2) Temperature to 84.
3) Lowest Fan setting
4) Press Gas pedal >10 secs until you hear the pump running

Is this process to run the water pump to bleed the system after a coolant flush?


Next Question: My fan is running at 100% max speed. For my 2E81 Elctrical cooling pump:, speed deviation error, is there another sensor / electronics somewhere that monitors this? Or is this part of the water pump?

2E81 Elctrical cooling pump:, speed deviation
Error will not cause a warning light
Error is not currently present
Test conditions have been completed
Short circuit or signal interruption

Freeze Frame Information
Event 1Odometer 131864kms 81936miles
coolant temperature OBD 96.00 C
water pump voltage 14.00 V
water pump speed 0.00 -
water pump speed difference of nominal-actual value 250.00 -

Your HELP is appreciated, as I'm currently w/o a car
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      12-20-2011, 09:04 PM   #6
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sure would be nice if we could check our trans fluid level, with all the sensors this car has you would think they could of added one for trans. One thing I love about my old chevy!!
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      12-21-2011, 12:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Lots of cars getting up in there in mileage now (mine is 82K), so adding some more info. My car is in the shop at the moment, undrivable due to engine overtemp warnings coming up repeatedly (after a week of leaving my car garaged).

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID LEAK:

I'll start off with the ATF fluid (ZF 6HP19). As there are many threads on this already, I'll keep it short. Basically, noticed transmission oil leaked after a week of non-use, and confirmed after my car was put on a lift at the mechanic's. Interesting that others also noticed leaks after leaving their car parked for an extended period of time. Search for the SIB if you're still under warranty.

Luckily, I already ordered the following kit months ago in preparation of my next track event:
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...=187&parent=43
$238.03 + shipping

Labor was 1.75 hrs for me.

Lastly, my oil came out black, so if you track your car, this is a MUST do maintenance!

IMPORTANT: 6 liters included in the kit is NOT enough if you're doing a thorough drain. My car was left to drain overnight. I recommend purchasing an extra 2-3 liters at $17.13 from the site. I had to pay $30/liter locally because I didn't stock enough.
.
You track your car regularly, and you are using that cough syrup (oem trans fluid)? That fluid is way to weak, and thin for regular track use. Mine was black after just 50K miles, and no track use.
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      12-21-2011, 12:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Lots of cars getting up in there in mileage now (mine is 82K), so adding some more info.
I'm on 89K miles, and no radiator issues, knock on wood. I did use a radiator/cooling system cleaner a while ago though. Speaking of high mileage, and maintenance work, you guys might want to check your oil pan. Mine had a leak not too long ago. There is a stupid gasket on there, just like on the filter housing. I got mine changed and they sealed it all shut with some sealant to make sure it doesn't happen again. It's a ton of labour getting to that oil pan though! it was about 7-8 hours labour total. I did a write up on this with pictures. Just do a search with my username. Good luck guys, and hope to see you guys out there next year. I already signed up for a track event next year, one of many, I hope.
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      12-21-2011, 12:21 AM   #9
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You may consider yourself lucky since your car water pump failed @ 84k miles. Mine failed @ 39k miles. My car is a 335i 2007 and it had exactly the same symptoms as yours. I replaced the water pump and thermostat myself. I followed some DIY guides that I found in this forum. I'm not an expert, but based in the experience with my car I will bet that your car just have a water pump failure. I including the links for the treads I used as reference when I replaced mine. I hope this work for you.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347412
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551742
http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/12/15/02
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      12-21-2011, 02:17 PM   #10
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failed water pump here too, 58,000 miles. Replaced under extended warranty. These are not track worthy cars once you get past the novice stage. Fun as hell until you get there but they are just too fragile for hard driving.
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      12-22-2011, 06:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlcolon2001 View Post
You may consider yourself lucky since your car water pump failed @ 84k miles. Mine failed @ 39k miles. My car is a 335i 2007 and it had exactly the same symptoms as yours. I replaced the water pump and thermostat myself. I followed some DIY guides that I found in this forum. I'm not an expert, but based in the experience with my car I will bet that your car just have a water pump failure. I including the links for the treads I used as reference when I replaced mine. I hope this work for you.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347412
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551742
http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/12/15/02
Thanks for sharing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbass524 View Post
failed water pump here too, 58,000 miles. Replaced under extended warranty. These are not track worthy cars once you get past the novice stage. Fun as hell until you get there but they are just too fragile for hard driving.
Yeah, I agree. It's a great novice-intermediate car, but I'm feeling held back now. I'm also limiting my track events to cold weather days, and just plain avoiding the summer months (vacation travel instead ). Unlike you, I don't plan on getting a Spec Miata. I'm gonna try holding out for the new M3, understanding that it won't be a track car either, but at least it's a step closer.


Just an update:
Car still not fixed. My repair bill is at about $2300 now. Since I know this question always comes up, here's a summary to-date:

Transmission Pan, Gasket, ATF (8 liters) - $508.34 ($330.34 parts + $178 1.75 hrs labor)
Radiator Replacement, temp sensor, some hoses - $696 ($431 parts + $265 2.67 hrs labor)
Water Pump + Thermostat - $1008 ($591 pump + $120 thermostat + $297 3 hrs labor)
Coolant Flush (25% coolant:water mix) - $60 ($60 for 1 gal BMW Coolant + 2 bottles MoCool, labor included with other stuff)

Unfortunately, no discount on labor since everything was done separately as part of the troubleshooting process.
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Last edited by orionredwing; 12-22-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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      12-22-2011, 07:17 PM   #12
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I have this overheating issue a few years back, thankfully under warranty. They chased the problem for a few days until they discovered a weird electrical issue of some sort that was affecting the fan. Stupid problems with no obvious smoking guns can be a handful $$$ to figure out.
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      12-23-2011, 01:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionredwing View Post
Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, I agree. It's a great novice-intermediate car, but I'm feeling held back now. I'm also limiting my track events to cold weather days, and just plain avoiding the summer months (vacation travel instead ). Unlike you, I don't plan on getting a Spec Miata. I'm gonna try holding out for the new M3, understanding that it won't be a track car either, but at least it's a step closer.
We got an E36 M3 to abuse. Great car.

Well you know the score when it comes to tracking any street car, or track for that matter: they break. All cars break when driven hard.

The allure of a car that is a DD and an effective track is very strong though and I completely understand.

Good luck on finding the issues.
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