Decide for yourself-Gintani cover up

birdbrain · 03-25-2011, 07:08 PM

So picked this up on the m3 and m5 board-basically came out gintani was being investigated for fraud, theft of software from other tuners and most recently manipulating dyno data. Also reports that several blown supercharger engines on the m3.

Puts even more doubt that this "supercharger for the n52" was all a scam as gintani was the one providing the tuning supposedly.

I am not saying yay or nay either way-you guys can read and decide for yourself if you would use gintani or related tunes/superchargers if it ever exists

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504140

optimaxed · 03-25-2011, 07:45 PM

Glad I went down the AA tune

ray_futbol · 03-25-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimaxed

Glad I went down the AA tune

+1

mike-y · 03-25-2011, 08:13 PM

There's nothing in that thread about theft or being investigated for fraud. There is a lot of arguing over the different readings from different dynos. Dynos do read differently, and will vary depending on the weather.

That said, there could be something going on, but it's too hard to speculate when you don't have enough data. I think it's too early to be making posts like this and starting a shit storm of rumors.

I personally met up with someone with the same car as me who got the gintani tune at OE on OE's dyno. We met at a completely different dyno shop, and had both our cars dyno'd on a dynojet. His car made a significant amount of power more than mine, and the dynojet also read significantly higher than what his dyno at OE read.

It's quite possible, that OE's dyno calibration is off, and reads lower than it should. But when you dyno tune, you are looking for gains over a baseline, not a peak number, unless you just want to brag.

Furthermore, the N52 supercharger has little to do with OE, and is being handled by Craven/Gavin @ MMW. It's completely ignorant and foolish to bring Gavin into this mess, and make a claim that he is running a scam. It's these kinds of words that lead to libel and slander lawsuits, so you might want to rethink your statements. If there are more threads about this, you need to post them, because just the one you linked doesn't have enough information to back up your statements

I have no affiliation with OE, and was actually planning on getting the AA tune. But to make these sorts of accusations prematurely is pretty stupid.

turboboosted · 03-25-2011, 08:58 PM

subscribed

Wlew · 03-26-2011, 03:45 AM

I agree with mike-Y. this shows very little proof about a scam or lawsuit.

Gavin is one of the most honest members on this forum and would never lie or deceit you in any way. I can speak from personal experience that he has told me he would never make a quick sale to me just to make money. He does not play that game. He will be straight forward and honest with you and tell you exactly what you need and give it to you for an excellent price. He would never sell something to you that is bullshit.

Especially the OE tune. He does not work for OE. He simply supplies the tune to his customers. IF and only IF there is a scam, he should not be thrown into this. I highly doubt, unless there is further evidence, that a company like OE would be involved in a case like this.

Gavin is making his own supercharger kit that many of us are likely to purchase. If this case turns out to be true, then he will most absolutely find another software company to provide his consumers with excellent products that he has been proven to deliver since becoming a member.

slander like this should not be posted until further evidence is produced. This is my personal opinion, of course. (Minus what I said about Gavin. I know about 90% of the members here would back me up on his legitimacy).

EZ_TUR90 · 03-26-2011, 03:49 AM

Well said mike-y.

Handsome_Rob · 03-26-2011, 06:52 AM

The OP has been anti-Gavin since he joined a couple of weeks ago. He's trying to "wake us up" to the reality of an impossible N52 FI setup. You know, Columbus wasn't looking for America, my man, but that turned out to be pretty okay for everyone.

LaLakers91tc · 03-26-2011, 10:09 AM

I just spent the last hour reading through the various problems with OE/Gintani, and it is a tad surprising,
curious as to what the end result of all this will be

birdbrain · 03-26-2011, 10:14 AM

Some of you obviouy didnt read enough-check the links out in the link I posted as that leads to other forum disputes such as the m5 guys regarding discussion of OE blowing a bunch of mercedes owners and steeling tuning software for their m3 supercharger.

I am not anti-gavin but he uses their software so I would be skeptical of any OE product at this point.

I personaly do not care if you decide to use OE or not but wanted to bring it to peoples attention

Cali335 · 03-26-2011, 10:32 AM

I have had the OE/Gintani tune for about 4 months and love it, no problems

Dark_Knight_335 · 03-26-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handsome_Rob

The OP has been anti-Gavin since he joined a couple of weeks ago. He's trying to "wake us up" to the reality of an impossible N52 FI setup. You know, Columbus wasn't looking for America, my man, but that turned out to be pretty okay for everyone.

Awesome post

Gavin@MMW · 03-26-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdbrain

So picked this up on the m3 and m5 board-basically came out gintani was being investigated for fraud, theft of software from other tuners and most recently manipulating dyno data. Also reports that several blown supercharger engines on the m3.

Puts even more doubt that this "supercharger for the n52" was all a scam as gintani was the one providing the tuning supposedly.

I am not saying yay or nay either way-you guys can read and decide for yourself if you would use gintani or related tunes/superchargers if it ever exists

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504140

Gintani is in no way affiliated with my S/C kit

I'd like to be very clear LOL

Proper Motion LLC · 03-26-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike-y

Furthermore, the N52 supercharger has little to do with OE, and is being handled by Craven/Gavin @ MMW. It's completely ignorant and foolish to bring Gavin into this mess, and make a claim that he is running a scam. It's these kinds of words that lead to libel and slander lawsuits, so you might want to rethink your statements. If there are more threads about this, you need to post them, because just the one you linked doesn't have enough information to back up your statements

The OP never mentioned Gavin @ MMW.

So no, those kind of words don't lead to libel and slander lawsuits

t1mmy · 03-28-2011, 03:40 PM

interesting read (s) clickng through the various links. Definitely curious - funny how they do mention an EZ-Flash module for the M3, 328i can't be that much different

markham335i · 03-28-2011, 05:23 PM

oh wow this should get interesting fast lol

IancoleTX · 03-28-2011, 07:33 PM

Absolutely do not lump Gavin in with Gintani. Gavin is a stand up guy in the n52 community as far as I am concerned.

That said, and on a COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE, I just spent like an hour (oops) reading all the threads, and it does in fact seem like Alex and Jeremy are up to some shady biz on their dynos, and are now wishing for it to go away very fervently. I would love to see a showdown to clear the air, but I strongly doubt it will ever happen.

birdbrain · 03-28-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike-y

There's nothing in that thread about theft or being investigated for fraud. There is a lot of arguing over the different readings from different dynos. Dynos do read differently, and will vary depending on the weather.

That said, there could be something going on, but it's too hard to speculate when you don't have enough data. I think it's too early to be making posts like this and starting a shit storm of rumors.

I personally met up with someone with the same car as me who got the gintani tune at OE on OE's dyno. We met at a completely different dyno shop, and had both our cars dyno'd on a dynojet. His car made a significant amount of power more than mine, and the dynojet also read significantly higher than what his dyno at OE read.

It's quite possible, that OE's dyno calibration is off, and reads lower than it should. But when you dyno tune, you are looking for gains over a baseline, not a peak number, unless you just want to brag.

Furthermore, the N52 supercharger has little to do with OE, and is being handled by Craven/Gavin @ MMW. It's completely ignorant and foolish to bring Gavin into this mess, and make a claim that he is running a scam. It's these kinds of words that lead to libel and slander lawsuits, so you might want to rethink your statements. If there are more threads about this, you need to post them, because just the one you linked doesn't have enough information to back up your statements

I have no affiliation with OE, and was actually planning on getting the AA tune. But to make these sorts of accusations prematurely is pretty stupid.

Clearly you have no concept of the law as this is as far away from what libel or slander is that you can get. The entire concept of libel and slander is that it is a proven false statement made up to cause harm to another financially/emotionally or personally. Posting a picture of their own dyno graph that they posted on the internet with someones calculations added up and posted is purely factual as is the link provided to this. Since Gavin has used OE tunes and such then its also reasonable to atleast question the tunes he has been selling. This is all information provided by OE so they cannot obviously slander themselves. Again the information has to be knowingly false with intent to injure someone. Not with intent to educate with factual statements/data.

Keep reading up on the law though

mike-y · 03-29-2011, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdbrain

Puts even more doubt that this "supercharger for the n52" was all a scam

These threads are about dyno tunes, and have nothing to do with the supercharger kit. Not one single mention of it. Gavin already said his kit isn't affiliated with Gintani, yet you keep trying to link them together with these threads, which you say "supercharger for the n52 was all a scam".

now tell us how you are going to prove that this is a true statement, and how it is not meant to do harm.

birdbrain · 03-30-2011, 09:11 PM

Gintani is/was doing the tuning for gavins supercharger project, not him. Since its their tuning that is in question than of course it is relevent. He is using their software for his project-if you cant see how that is related than that is your fault

Bimmer-Bob · 03-31-2011, 06:39 AM

I don't know why I'm even posting this, but as an outside lurker without a dog in this fight I thought I'd add some perspective.

I don't know anything about Gavin, except that he seems to be generally well-liked and respected on this board. I have every reason to believe that he is the stand-up guy that everyone seems to think he is.

That said, I have to wonder sometimes why so many people fawn all over him.

He runs a shop that claims to be "the leader in N52 performance modification," yet his shop's website has a dearth of products for that platform. In fact, the only N52-specific product to be found (by me, at least) is the BMS PowerBox.

He also seems to be working on a never-ending project for an N52 S/C kit. Great, if it comes to fruition. And I'm not saying it won't. But why celebrate something that hasn't happened yet? Then there's the exhaust headers, which seem to be coming along very well - but aren't available yet to my knowledge.

So, unless I'm missing something, the bulk of his tuning insight seems to be "charcoal filter delete, K&N drop-in filter, and scoops." SRSLY?

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, and I wish Gavin the best of luck in his pursuits. I'm glad to see someone take the N52 seriously as a tuning platform. But until he produces tangible results, I don't see why everyone defers to him as some sort of N52 guru.

Am I missing something? I concede that there very well could be breakthroughs that he has made for the N52 that I have no idea about. Are there? If so, he really needs to do some work on his website. At least have an "in development" section or something. If you're going to put yourself out there as "the leader in N52 performance modification," you ought to be able to back it up with something.

Anyway, my 2¢.

benzo23 · 03-31-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

I don't know why I'm even posting this, but as an outside lurker without a dog in this fight I thought I'd add some perspective.

I don't know anything about Gavin, except that he seems to be generally well-liked and respected on this board. I have every reason to believe that he is the stand-up guy that everyone seems to think he is.

That said, I have to wonder sometimes why so many people fawn all over him.

He runs a shop that claims to be "the leader in N52 performance modification," yet his shop's website has a dearth of products for that platform. In fact, the only N52-specific product to be found (by me, at least) is the BMS PowerBox.

He also seems to be working on a never-ending project for an N52 S/C kit. Great, if it comes to fruition. And I'm not saying it won't. But why celebrate something that hasn't happened yet? Then there's the exhaust headers, which seem to be coming along very well - but aren't available yet to my knowledge.

So, unless I'm missing something, the bulk of his tuning insight seems to be "charcoal filter delete, K&N drop-in filter, and scoops." SRSLY?

I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, and I wish Gavin the best of luck in his pursuits. I'm glad to see someone take the N52 seriously as a tuning platform. But until he produces tangible results, I don't see why everyone defers to him as some sort of N52 guru.

Am I missing something? I concede that there very well could be breakthroughs that he has made for the N52 that I have no idea about. Are there? If so, he really needs to do some work on his website. At least have an "in development" section or something. If you're going to put yourself out there as "the leader in N52 performance modification," you ought to be able to back it up with something.

Anyway, my 2¢.

Wow

03-25-2011, 07:08 PM	#1
birdbrain Banned 8 Rep 67 Posts Drives: bmw Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: AZ iTrader: (0)	Decide for yourself-Gintani cover up So picked this up on the m3 and m5 board-basically came out gintani was being investigated for fraud, theft of software from other tuners and most recently manipulating dyno data. Also reports that several blown supercharger engines on the m3. Puts even more doubt that this "supercharger for the n52" was all a scam as gintani was the one providing the tuning supposedly. I am not saying yay or nay either way-you guys can read and decide for yourself if you would use gintani or related tunes/superchargers if it ever exists http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504140
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

03-25-2011, 07:45 PM	#2
optimaxed Second Lieutenant 39 Rep 235 Posts Drives: M340i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Home iTrader: (0)	Glad I went down the AA tune
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-25-2011, 08:13 PM	#4
mike-y just another bmw douche bag 195 Rep 3,640 Posts Drives: 1.9L of fury Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (4)	There's nothing in that thread about theft or being investigated for fraud. There is a lot of arguing over the different readings from different dynos. Dynos do read differently, and will vary depending on the weather. That said, there could be something going on, but it's too hard to speculate when you don't have enough data. I think it's too early to be making posts like this and starting a shit storm of rumors. I personally met up with someone with the same car as me who got the gintani tune at OE on OE's dyno. We met at a completely different dyno shop, and had both our cars dyno'd on a dynojet. His car made a significant amount of power more than mine, and the dynojet also read significantly higher than what his dyno at OE read. It's quite possible, that OE's dyno calibration is off, and reads lower than it should. But when you dyno tune, you are looking for gains over a baseline, not a peak number, unless you just want to brag. Furthermore, the N52 supercharger has little to do with OE, and is being handled by Craven/Gavin @ MMW. It's completely ignorant and foolish to bring Gavin into this mess, and make a claim that he is running a scam. It's these kinds of words that lead to libel and slander lawsuits, so you might want to rethink your statements. If there are more threads about this, you need to post them, because just the one you linked doesn't have enough information to back up your statements I have no affiliation with OE, and was actually planning on getting the AA tune. But to make these sorts of accusations prematurely is pretty stupid. Last edited by mike-y; 03-25-2011 at 08:22 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-25-2011, 08:58 PM	#5
turboboosted Lieutenant 53 Rep 437 Posts Drives: E90 \| E92 \| F10 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Jose, CA iTrader: (19)	subscribed
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-26-2011, 03:45 AM	#6
Wlew Major 77 Rep 1,116 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 335i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Washington, DC iTrader: (12)	I agree with mike-Y. this shows very little proof about a scam or lawsuit. Gavin is one of the most honest members on this forum and would never lie or deceit you in any way. I can speak from personal experience that he has told me he would never make a quick sale to me just to make money. He does not play that game. He will be straight forward and honest with you and tell you exactly what you need and give it to you for an excellent price. He would never sell something to you that is bullshit. Especially the OE tune. He does not work for OE. He simply supplies the tune to his customers. IF and only IF there is a scam, he should not be thrown into this. I highly doubt, unless there is further evidence, that a company like OE would be involved in a case like this. Gavin is making his own supercharger kit that many of us are likely to purchase. If this case turns out to be true, then he will most absolutely find another software company to provide his consumers with excellent products that he has been proven to deliver since becoming a member. slander like this should not be posted until further evidence is produced. This is my personal opinion, of course. (Minus what I said about Gavin. I know about 90% of the members here would back me up on his legitimacy). __________________ 2011 335i Sports Package \| VRSF FMIC \| Cobb AP3 \| Dinan Exhaust \| BMS Intake \| VRSF CP \| Lux H8 Angel Eyes \| Mtec LED Fogs \|
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-26-2011, 03:49 AM	#7
EZ_TUR90 Ez tur90 189 Rep 3,191 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (11)	Well said mike-y. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-26-2011, 06:52 AM	#8
Handsome_Rob Private First Class 4 Rep 142 Posts Drives: 535i w/6spd! Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South La to south Al iTrader: (0)	The OP has been anti-Gavin since he joined a couple of weeks ago. He's trying to "wake us up" to the reality of an impossible N52 FI setup. You know, Columbus wasn't looking for America, my man, but that turned out to be pretty okay for everyone.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-26-2011, 10:09 AM	#9
LaLakers91tc Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,860 Posts Drives: BSM E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lawrenceville NJ iTrader: (5)	I just spent the last hour reading through the various problems with OE/Gintani, and it is a tad surprising, curious as to what the end result of all this will be __________________ Current 07 BSM E92 335i Previous SGM E90 330i (R.I.P.)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-26-2011, 10:14 AM	#10
birdbrain Banned 8 Rep 67 Posts Drives: bmw Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: AZ iTrader: (0)	Some of you obviouy didnt read enough-check the links out in the link I posted as that leads to other forum disputes such as the m5 guys regarding discussion of OE blowing a bunch of mercedes owners and steeling tuning software for their m3 supercharger. I am not anti-gavin but he uses their software so I would be skeptical of any OE product at this point. I personaly do not care if you decide to use OE or not but wanted to bring it to peoples attention
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-26-2011, 10:32 AM	#11
Cali335 Private 4 Rep 98 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Glendale,CA iTrader: (1)	I have had the OE/Gintani tune for about 4 months and love it, no problems
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2011, 03:40 PM	#15
t1mmy Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 224 Posts Drives: BMW 328i 2008 Sport Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	interesting read (s) clickng through the various links. Definitely curious - funny how they do mention an EZ-Flash module for the M3, 328i can't be that much different
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2011, 05:23 PM	#16
markham335i Lieutenant 61 Rep 540 Posts Drives: 07 335i Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto, Markham iTrader: (0)	oh wow this should get interesting fast lol __________________ Upgrades: <Cobb V3, DCI, BMS downpipes, ER charge pipe, Forge DV, bbs ch-r, 30%tint all around, bmw performance exhaust, umnitza V4 angel eyes>.....Next upgrades (I would like):intercooler, BBK, turbo upgrade....etc....
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2011, 07:33 PM	#17
IancoleTX Dillo boxers 272 Rep 3,360 Posts Drives: 2019 M5C Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: USA iTrader: (14)	Absolutely do not lump Gavin in with Gintani. Gavin is a stand up guy in the n52 community as far as I am concerned. That said, and on a COMPLETELY SEPARATE NOTE, I just spent like an hour (oops) reading all the threads, and it does in fact seem like Alex and Jeremy are up to some shady biz on their dynos, and are now wishing for it to go away very fervently. I would love to see a showdown to clear the air, but I strongly doubt it will ever happen. __________________ 2019 M5C Matte MBB / Tartufo
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-30-2011, 09:11 PM	#20
birdbrain Banned 8 Rep 67 Posts Drives: bmw Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: AZ iTrader: (0)	Gintani is/was doing the tuning for gavins supercharger project, not him. Since its their tuning that is in question than of course it is relevent. He is using their software for his project-if you cant see how that is related than that is your fault
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2011, 06:39 AM	#21
Bimmer-Bob ! 693 Rep 3,266 Posts Drives: 2010 128i Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Anacortes, WA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2010 BMW 128i (E82) [9.25]	I don't know why I'm even posting this, but as an outside lurker without a dog in this fight I thought I'd add some perspective. I don't know anything about Gavin, except that he seems to be generally well-liked and respected on this board. I have every reason to believe that he is the stand-up guy that everyone seems to think he is. That said, I have to wonder sometimes why so many people fawn all over him. He runs a shop that claims to be "the leader in N52 performance modification," yet his shop's website has a dearth of products for that platform. In fact, the only N52-specific product to be found (by me, at least) is the BMS PowerBox. He also seems to be working on a never-ending project for an N52 S/C kit. Great, if it comes to fruition. And I'm not saying it won't. But why celebrate something that hasn't happened yet? Then there's the exhaust headers, which seem to be coming along very well - but aren't available yet to my knowledge. So, unless I'm missing something, the bulk of his tuning insight seems to be "charcoal filter delete, K&N drop-in filter, and scoops." SRSLY? I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, and I wish Gavin the best of luck in his pursuits. I'm glad to see someone take the N52 seriously as a tuning platform. But until he produces tangible results, I don't see why everyone defers to him as some sort of N52 guru. Am I missing something? I concede that there very well could be breakthroughs that he has made for the N52 that I have no idea about. Are there? If so, he really needs to do some work on his website. At least have an "in development" section or something. If you're going to put yourself out there as "the leader in N52 performance modification," you ought to be able to back it up with something. Anyway, my 2¢.
	Appreciate 0 Quote