[MWC]

I'm interested in buying an N52 to swap into my E36 racecar. So far it seems like the MSV70 is the ecu to use for something like this as it's been cracked and there are already a few N52 swapped cars running around. I can think of one E30 I've been following and another E36 ti that Kassel Performance put together that are running well at this point.

My problem is that when I search local junkyards they want 2k+ for E90 330i N52s which I think are N52n models that came with an MSV70 from the factory.

I noticed that X3 3.0si N52s which I think are the N52k models are far cheaper at local salvage yards. These motors also have the 3 stage intake and additional improvements like the thicker exhaust valves and valve cover integrated CCV systems. The only issue is these motors came with an MSV80 from the factory and so far it doesn't seem like that ECU is an option if the goal is to swap the motor into an older chassis.

Is it possible to run one of these later N52k engines on an MSV70? Are there any differences between the two engines from an electronics standpoint? Like different sensors or different wiring harnesses? As far as I can tell the motors are effectively identical but I haven't been able to confirm this.

I have a much stronger background on the M/S5X platform and have been binging N52 info over the last week. If anything I've written here is incorrect I welcome the correction. Thanks!

[hassmaschine]

you can use any N52 engine (not N51), and buy the MSV70 DME separately. The harness will need modified regardless, but I don't think there are really any differences that matter in a swap.

I just finished helping a buddy tidy up his N52 swapped E30, which was originally an MSV80 based engine that we changed to MSV70. He's using all of the N52k parts, except he's got an MSV70 MAF, 335i throttle body, 335i manifold, and S54 headers. it's putting around 270 to the wheels. pretty fun in a 2400lb car

I think there are 4 N52 swaps running around, not that many, but as light, cheap, and full of potential this engine is maybe it will get more popular. I can't see any point in doing a US S50 or S52 now.

[neilvan]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

, except he's got an MSV70 MAF, 335i throttle body,

Just a question, W/ MSV70 and the N54 throttle body, was any programming needed for the change or was is just swapping the connector over?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you can use any N52 engine (not N51), and buy the MSV70 DME separately. The harness will need modified regardless, but I don't think there are really any differences that matter in a swap.

I just finished helping a buddy tidy up his N52 swapped E30, which was originally an MSV80 based engine that we changed to MSV70. He's using all of the N52k parts, except he's got an MSV70 MAF, 335i throttle body, 335i manifold, and S54 headers. it's putting around 270 to the wheels. pretty fun in a 2400lb car

I think there are 4 N52 swaps running around, not that many, but as light, cheap, and full of potential this engine is maybe it will get more popular. I can't see any point in doing a US S50 or S52 now.

Not to hijack the thread, but S54 headers fit the N52? OE, aftermarket or both? 270whp E30 sounds fun. More power then most S14's and wayy more torque

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by neilvan

Just a question, W/ MSV70 and the N54 throttle body, was any programming needed for the change or was is just swapping the connector over?

No programming, I think you can just swap pins on the harness. He started with an MSV80 harness, so it just plugged in.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Not to hijack the thread, but S54 headers fit the N52? OE, aftermarket or both? 270whp E30 sounds fun. More power then most S14's and wayy more torque

They're OE S54 but with the cats cut off and new merges welded on. You also have to swap flanges but those are easy to get cut out of plate steel. It uses stock N52 gaskets, it's pretty slick!

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

They're OE S54 but with the cats cut off and new merges welded on. You also have to swap flanges but those are easy to get cut out of plate steel. It uses stock N52 gaskets, it's pretty slick!

This is something I’ve been strongly considering doing thanks to you

[MWC]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you can use any N52 engine (not N51), and buy the MSV70 DME separately. The harness will need modified regardless, but I don't think there are really any differences that matter in a swap.

I just finished helping a buddy tidy up his N52 swapped E30, which was originally an MSV80 based engine that we changed to MSV70. He's using all of the N52k parts, except he's got an MSV70 MAF, 335i throttle body, 335i manifold, and S54 headers. it's putting around 270 to the wheels. pretty fun in a 2400lb car

I think there are 4 N52 swaps running around, not that many, but as light, cheap, and full of potential this engine is maybe it will get more popular. I can't see any point in doing a US S50 or S52 now.

Awesome! Thank you for the quick confirmation. I've been following that E30 build for a while now and its definitely an inspiration for this swap. I agree the potential for higher revs and more power is starting to make this seem like a no-brainer of the future.

When you say the harness will need to be modified, do you just mean that the unnecessary items will need to be removed and any interfacing with the chassis will need to be added in? or do you mean that there are other modifications that will need to be made in addition to those standard changes? I'm thinking things like different connectors, different sensors, etc.

These motors came in a wide variety of chassis, I'm wondering if there's a harness that would be the best basis for a swap. The ECU location E30 is obviously different than an e36 or e46 but I'd wager the harnesses would probably need to be similar in overall length.

As this is going to be a race car I don't really need to worry about quite as many things besides making the motor work. I'm going to probably go with an AIM dash or something similar so no need to worry about making it look factory etc. I really just want to buy the right parts the first time.

[hassmaschine]

I think it was discussed that maybe the X3 or Z4 harness was best for an E30 - I think E36 has a similar location for the DME? I don't remember if it was in the glove box or inside the engine bay on the E36. But yeah, I mean mods needed for the swap itself.

I don't think there's any sensors that really need to be swapped. He added wires for the cluster temp sensor, and I think the E36 will be similar there (you'll need to do something like the E30 guys do when using an E36 motor in an E30, because the engine coolant sensor for the N52 is different from the E36).

And you'll have to decide if you want a dipstick or just use the N52 oil sensor. I think at the very least, you can probably use Z4 engine mount arms (same as the E46) and the stock oil pan!

[MWC]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I think it was discussed that maybe the X3 or Z4 harness was best for an E30 - I think E36 has a similar location for the DME? I don't remember if it was in the glove box or inside the engine bay on the E36. But yeah, I mean mods needed for the swap itself.

I don't think there's any sensors that really need to be swapped. He added wires for the cluster temp sensor, and I think the E36 will be similar there (you'll need to do something like the E30 guys do when using an E36 motor in an E30, because the engine coolant sensor for the N52 is different from the E36).

And you'll have to decide if you want a dipstick or just use the N52 oil sensor. I think at the very least, you can probably use Z4 engine mount arms (same as the E46) and the stock oil pan!

E36/E46 have the ECU in a compartment built into the firewall in the back left-hand corner of the engine bay, basically the same spot as an E30 it just doesn't go in as far.

Is there a way to add a dipstick on an N52? That would be far superior, especially for a race car where we're changing the oil after every weekend.

[jonwilli]

Originally Posted by MWC

Is there a way to add a dipstick on an N52? That would be far superior, especially for a race car where we're changing the oil after every weekend.

If you look on RealOEM at the M235i Race series car parts there is a dip stick shown for that car that replaces some of the sensors on the standard engine. I reckon it would be a fair bet that if that fits an N55 it could be used on the N52.

[tikkosa123]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I think it was discussed that maybe the X3 or Z4 harness was best for an E30 - I think E36 has a similar location for the DME? I don't remember if it was in the glove box or inside the engine bay on the E36. But yeah, I mean mods needed for the swap itself.

I don't think there's any sensors that really need to be swapped. He added wires for the cluster temp sensor, and I think the E36 will be similar there (you'll need to do something like the E30 guys do when using an E36 motor in an E30, because the engine coolant sensor for the N52 is different from the E36).

And you'll have to decide if you want a dipstick or just use the N52 oil sensor. I think at the very least, you can probably use Z4 engine mount arms (same as the E46) and the stock oil pan!

Hi Hassmaschine,


I need your Help. I am driving an E61 from 2005 with N52B25 (silber Cover) engine with a MSV70 in Germany. After the engine has gone, i bought a N52K engine with complete wirering harness and engine parts.

As i want to keep the components from the n52K (black Cover for example), is it possible to Run the engine with the n52K harness and the MSV 70?

Will the n52K harness fit with the MSV 70 dde?

Thanks for you Help!

[hassmaschine]

you can use the new harness with the N52 yes. There are some slight differences but they can be adapted by referencing the ETM.

[Raimund]

Yes I have an N52k in my 2006 330i MSV70 as I bought the car with a bad engine and replaced it.