[justpete]

Originally Posted by W37V

Thats what the guy said. But even after driving over 300 miles on them, the feeling didn't go away.

Then it's absolutely not mold release compound.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by justpete

Absolutely! Take it to the dealer, they'll know by inspection, assuming it's a good dealership. I hope it's not terrible, that was an awful thing for that shop to do. Unless lifting from the frame points or the diff body suspension damage is almost guaranteed, sad to say. Let us know what they find. Maybe they just blew some bushings and nothing's bent, that could explain both the odd camber and the trunk full of water feeling. Sure hope it's just that. Really sorry to see this.

How much are we talking about here? I was thinking about doing the M3 linkage swap. do you think that might fix it?

First thing on Saturday, it's going in for service.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by W37V

How much are we talking about here? I was thinking about doing the M3 linkage swap. do you think that might fix it?

First thing on Saturday, it's going in for service.

Dunno. Trailing link bushings aren't all that expensive, labor is but it doesn't take all that long. If the arms themselves are bent then it gets expensive but I don't know how much. It wouldn't be cheap, sad to say. The M3 links are at the top and won't have any effect, sorry. Best of luck, that tire shop tech needs to be taken out back and clubbed like a baby seal... Incredible. Sure do hope it's not catastrophic and comes out easy and cheap!

[W37V]

Originally Posted by justpete

Dunno. Trailing link bushings aren't all that expensive, labor is but it doesn't take all that long. If the arms themselves are bent then it gets expensive but I don't know how much. It wouldn't be cheap, sad to say. The M3 links are at the top and won't have any effect, sorry. Best of luck, that tire shop tech needs to be taken out back and clubbed like a baby seal... Incredible. Sure do hope it's not catastrophic and comes out easy and cheap!

I am not afraid to do the work by myself, unless there is something that requires specialized tools.

Btw. since pictures don't tell the whole story, this is the part they used to jack up the car - Roll-over strut with rubber mount
It's number 4 on this diagram.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by W37V

I am not afraid to do the work by myself, unless there is something that requires specialized tools.

Btw. since pictures don't tell the whole story, this is the part they used to jack up the car - Roll-over strut with rubber mount
It's number 4 on this diagram.

Yeah, that's the lower camber arm, or the spring arm. It looked like the lift point was where the trailing link, #11, met the knuckle. Regardless, lifting the car here is likely to damage the spring arm, at least. Not easy to replace I imagine but if you're used to spring compressors and disassembling the rear suspension it can't be all that difficult I suppose.

[CALWATERBOY]

Originally Posted by W37V

Car: '11 e92 328 m-sport

I noticed that my rear wheel have a lot of negative camber. If I am looking from above, I can see both wheels' bottom sticking out. I get an alignment once a year and it was always done at the dealership.

I just had my rear tires replaced. I do not recall my car having so much negative camber. Car does not pull on either side, but when going straight, it feels unstable.

Is this normal?

Not normal.

Before you get excited, check alignment - post printout here. Poor toe setting causes exactly what you describe, for instance. Proper 4 wheel alignment rack please, preferably by a BMW specialist.

Rear camber's normally set about -1.5°, enough to notice.

Rear camber arms - the big ones shocks attach to, can be used as lift points in a pinch but the proper contact areas are HERE - I frequently use the rear differential too, being careful not to include the fragile cover in my contact patch.

Do a bushing inspection. Unless you're installing M3 arms, etc., which you can DIY, yep fer sure. Be aware: Bad bushings/ball joints can cause good alignment to go outta alignment instantly, as play allows movment outta spec. You know what to do.

.

[CALWATERBOY]

Originally Posted by W37V

I am not afraid to do the work by myself, unless there is something that requires specialized tools.

Btw. since pictures don't tell the whole story, this is the part they used to jack up the car - Roll-over strut with rubber mount
It's number 4 on this diagram.

Any time you replace a suspension part, you need an alignment. Every time.

[Jaronbwall]

I've lifted a tire off the ground using the suspension arm and it did nothing. I agree that your suspension bushings could trashed if they lifted the whole car. Are you running mismatched tires since you had them replaced in Florida??

[justpete]

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

Not normal.

Before you get excited, check alignment - post printout here. Poor toe setting causes exactly what you describe, for instance. Proper 4 wheel alignment rack please, preferably by a BMW specialist.

Rear camber's normally set about -1.5°, enough to notice.

Rear camber arms - the big ones shocks attach to, can be used as lift points in a pinch but the proper contact areas are HERE - I frequently use the rear differential too, being careful not to include the fragile cover in my contact patch.

Do a bushing inspection. Unless you're installing M3 arms, etc., which you can DIY, yep fer sure. Be aware: Bad bushings/ball joints can cause good alignment to go outta alignment instantly, as play allows movment outta spec. You know what to do.

.

Hugely helpful, thanks! Not real clear in the linked image exactly what bolting points for rear axle trailing links actually is though. And all they did was change rear tires to cause this. I would've thought the only safe way to jack the car on the spring arms would be underneath the spring itself, if that.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Jarronbwall

I've lifted a tire off the ground using the suspension arm and it did nothing. I agree that your bushing suspension bits are trashed if they lifted the entire car. Are you running mismatched tires since you had them replaced in Florida??

But would it lead to asymmetrical and excessive negative camber?

[Jaronbwall]

Originally Posted by justpete

But would it lead to asymmetrical and excessive negative camber?

I'm not sure since he measured it with an iPhone cable

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Jarronbwall

I'm not sure since he measured it with an iPhone cable

Heh, true enough. But a one inch gap at the top and, say, 24" diameter tire, yields nearly 2.5deg of negative camber. Normal would be half that, easily seen even when using an iphone cable, I think. Maybe not but it seems excessive.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Jarronbwall

I'm not sure since he measured it with an iPhone cable

Even with alignment spot on the wheels will "appear" different since the car is not 100% symmetrical. Was the surface completely flat? Were the tire inflated properly? Were the tires evenly wore? Probably one side is higher than the other! A lot of variables! and most definitely you can't measure with iphone cable and pad lock. Also, lifting the car from under the spring arms (#4) will hurt nothing.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Even with alignment spot on the wheels will "appear" different since the car is not 100% symmetrical. Was the surface completely flat? Were the tire inflated properly? Were the tires evenly wore? Probably one side is higher than the other! A lot of variables! and most definitely you can't measure with iphone cable and pad lock. Also, lifting the car from under the spring arms (#4) will hurt nothing.

Well, this is certainly good to know, thanks. I was sure I'd read lifting on the suspension arms would cause damage, hopefully much ado about nothing then. That'd be a big relief then.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Even with alignment spot on the wheels will "appear" different since the car is not 100% symmetrical. Was the surface completely flat? Were the tire inflated properly? Were the tires evenly wore? Probably one side is higher than the other! A lot of variables! and most definitely you can't measure with iphone cable and pad lock. Also, lifting the car from under the spring arms (#4) will hurt nothing.

I measure camber with the SmartCamber gauge and reference it to the surface angle on non-level surfaces and the camber is always very nearly symmetrical, at least within a few tenths of a degree or so, certainly not a visible difference as far as I can tell. Definitely easy to tell the difference between one and two degrees with a plumb line, albeit not a really crude one but it should be fairly clear eyeballing it anyway. Will have to look at this more carefully myself, hmmm. Thanks.

[Camman]

Go to the dealer or an alignment shop and see what they measure.

From the pictures it's hard to tell how much camber is there. It looks like you have the super sunk 16in wheels. From the pictures it doesnt look that bad but I'm no expert and they definitely shouldn't have been lifting the car where they were doing it. Again, an alignment shop will measure all the specs the car is currently running.

Also, how many miles are on the car and have you had any suspension components replaced since owning the car?

Keep an eye on the tire wear, if something is really messed up that is throwing the toe out of spec, it will chew through the tires. I had a friend drive from Dallas to Houston with a bad toe alignment and the inner tire was bald by the time he got to Houston lol

[feuer]

Originally Posted by justpete

I measure camber with the SmartCamber gauge and reference it to the surface angle on non-level surfaces and the camber is always very nearly symmetrical, at least within a few tenths of a degree or so, certainly not a visible difference as far as I can tell. Definitely easy to tell the difference between one and two degrees with a plumb line, albeit not a really crude one but it should be fairly clear eyeballing it anyway. Will have to look at this more carefully myself, hmmm. Thanks.

Yes, camber would be identical when alignment is spot on, but not how the car body would be relative to the wheels. I hope this make more sense.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Yes, camber would be identical when aliment is spot on, but not how the car body would be relative to the wheels. I hope this make more sense.

Ah, gotcha, thanks! That's kinda surprising, must be missing something, will go back and look more closely as I clearly don't understand, which in this case is a good thing cuz there may very well not be anything terribly wrong and I just overreacted out of ignorance. Sucks but it happens, my bad for sure.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by Jarronbwall

I'm not sure since he measured it with an iPhone cable

That was my MacGyver moment. Didn't have any other string, but it was straight enough to show the gap difference on top and bottom.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by feuer

Yes, camber would be identical when alignment is spot on, but not how the car body would be relative to the wheels. I hope this make more sense.

This is because of the indexing of the subframe and various tolerance stackups offsetting the wheel locations relative to the fender metalwork?

[feuer]

Originally Posted by justpete

This is because of the indexing of the subframe and various tolerance stackups offsetting the wheel locations relative to the fender metalwork?

Correct, that is why there are many thread about cars with uneven height especially in the rear. Usually left to right is never identical not even from factory. It will ride 100% OK but if you look closely or better yet measure or scan you can tell that there are different. On older car might be even more drastic. Bushing will wore out at different rate. Same with springs and shocks. So the car will be aligned perfectly but how the body will sit on the frame it will not. Also accidents....

[W37V]

Originally Posted by feuer

Even with alignment spot on the wheels will "appear" different since the car is not 100% symmetrical. Was the surface completely flat? Were the tire inflated properly? Were the tires evenly wore? Probably one side is higher than the other! A lot of variables! and most definitely you can't measure with iphone cable and pad lock. Also, lifting the car from under the spring arms (#4) will hurt nothing.

Surface was level.
Both tires are inflated to 38.5
Both tires are brand new. They have about 1000 miles on them.

iPhone cable or any string (to be used as a pendulum) is sufficient to show the difference in distance from it and the measuring point. Pendulum will be at 90 degree angle, so any deviation from it can show the angle.