[SeanS54]

A heavily modified, powerful E90 335i vs a heavily modified, light E46 M3. Which one is faster at Laguna Seca Raceway?

[sirdaft1]

Thanks for sharing Sean, enjoyed watching the video. That was unfortunately my conclusion with my 335 as well. Even after sorting all of the engine cooling issues, the stupid ABS would throw the car into limp mode without actually knowing what temps the brakes were. That said, what videos do you have on the docket next?

[ThugzZ BunnY]

no sound, what was the time for the 335?

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by sirdaft1

Thanks for sharing Sean, enjoyed watching the video. That was unfortunately my conclusion with the 335 as well. Even after sorting all of the engine cooling issues, the stupid ABS would throw the car into limp mode without actually knowing what temps the brakes were. That said, what videos do you have on the docket next?

Thanks! I remember reading you had some issues on track as well. The 335i is a "family" car that wasn't intended to be a serious track car- unlike most M3's.

I'm going to be installing and testing Bimmerworld's V3 GT wing in the next week or two so stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, here's my latest video (track attire... safety).

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY

no sound, what was the time for the 335?

The video does have sound... the best time for the 335i at Laguna for me was 1.46. I've had the 335i at Laguna on multiple occasions too.

[sirdaft1]

Originally Posted by SeanS54

Thanks! I remember reading you had some issues on track as well. The 335i is a "family" car that wasn't intended to be a serious track car- unlike most M3's.

I'm going to be installing and testing Bimmerworld's V3 GT wing in the next week or two so stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, here's my latest video (track attire... safety).

Ha! Love it. What's interesting is that I've done dozens of HPDE's and have always seen the guys who roll into the morning safety meetings donned in full race suits and thought "come on dude, it's just an HPDE Senna." But much like having a proper helmet and HANS device, it's ultimately about safety. I think most of us are willing to roll the dice on our clothing at HPDE's (since most of us are only driving our DD's). But it definitely should be taken seriously.

Like the videos btw. Good value and education for the viewer

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by sirdaft1

Ha! Love it. What's interesting is that I've done dozens of HPDE's and have always seen the guys who roll into the morning safety meetings donned in full race suits and thought "come on dude, it's just an HPDE Senna." But much like having a proper helmet and HANS device, it's ultimately about safety. I think most of us are willing to roll the dice on our clothing at HPDE's (since most of us are only driving our DD's). But it definitely should be taken seriously.

Like the videos btw. Good value and education for the viewer

Thanks! I used to think that way too when I saw guys roll up in suits. Most of the guys driving serious track/race cars are in suits and I'm starting to see it more often.

I understand though, for guys that go once in awhile a suit may feel like overkill. But you're right, it boils down to safety and risk.

[ThugzZ BunnY]

Originally Posted by SeanS54

The video does have sound... the best time for the 335i at Laguna for me was 1.46. I've had the 335i at Laguna on multiple occasions too.

I didn't have access to sound.

[TemjinX2]

thats disappointing to hear about the e9x series. I always thought even in the canyons the oil temp gauged moved too much when you rev the car out in on the n54. I remember on my wrx and g35 the oil temp gauge never moved even when i rev'ed the crap out of the engines.

[Oneuglynerd]

Not fair comparison the 335i was behind another BMW for a good deal of the time. The m3 passed a corvette at the start and was free sailing the rest of the way.

[sirdaft1]

Now, despite having some issues with my previous daily driven 6AT 335i at the track, it is worth mentioning that there are some extremely potent 335i full-blown racecars that are not only competitive in their series- but dominating their series (look up TurboMike, he's in first place in the NASA ST1 class - leading a class full of Vipers, Corvettes and Cup Cars). Unfortunately builds like that aren't shared all that often. That said, I haven't yet publicly announced it (aside from my IG)... but I have a full blown 335i race car being built as we speak. The plan is to run it in HPDE's and TT's, with the potential to race in one of the NASA ST classes similar to Turbo Mike. Plenty more to come...

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

thats disappointing to hear about the e9x series. I always thought even in the canyons the oil temp gauged moved too much when you rev the car out in on the n54. I remember on my wrx and g35 the oil temp gauge never moved even when i rev'ed the crap out of the engines.

The twin turbos run hot, especially hotter if tuned and pushed for 20 straight minutes.

Originally Posted by Oneuglynerd

Not fair comparison the 335i was behind another BMW for a good deal of the time. The m3 passed a corvette at the start and was free sailing the rest of the way.

In the M3, if the corvette was not in my way to mess up my setup for the straight I would have definitely ran even faster perhaps a 1.43x (lap times are more about the straights than corners).

In the 335i, I've tracked Laguna numerous times and my best was 1.46 with that car in front of me. Again, straights make lap times so either way we're probably looking at ~2 seconds difference.

I'm not hating on the 335i, it's a great car. The frustration was I've dump thousands and thousands to get it track worthy and it would still limp on me at the track.

Originally Posted by sirdaft1

Now, despite having some issues with my previous daily driven 6AT 335i at the track, it is worth mentioning that there are some extremely potent 335i full-blown racecars that are not only competitive in their series- but dominating their series (look up TurboMike, he's in first place in the NASA ST1 class - leading a class full of Vipers, Corvettes and Cup Cars). Unfortunately builds like that aren't shared all that often. That said, I haven't yet publicly announced it (aside from my IG)... but I have a full blown 335i race car being built as we speak. The plan is to run it in HPDE's and TT's, with the potential to race in one of the NASA ST classes similar to Turbo Mike. Plenty more to come...

Agreed, the 335i has a lot of potential. I just decided to cut my losses before going over to the extreme race car build. Everything I've done to the M3 was "off the shelf" and it hasn't overheated on me once.

On the 335i I upgraded the radiator, custom setrab oil cooler with lower thermostat, 7" FMIC, and vented hood. If I gutted it and removed say 300 - 400 lbs and got a HUGE custom radiator and add another HUGE oil cooler perhaps it wouldn't overheat. But I didn't want to dump thousands more to not know for sure.

TT & TA are a few hot laps so the car would be fine. For HPDE if you're willing to cut your session short and run with the heater on than the car would also be fine.

[sirdaft1]

Originally Posted by SeanS54

TT & TA are a few hot laps so the car would be fine. For HPDE if you're willing to cut your session short and run with the heater on than the car would also be fine.

Without a doubt, cooling is the achilles heel of the n54. That said, once addressed... very potent.

I've spoken in great detail with Mike (Turbo Mike) and he runs dual OC's, an aluminum radiator with a single turbo setup. No cooling issues. And that's running 40-minute wheel to wheel races.

With all of that being said, if you plan to do more than some spirited driving in your 335, address the cooling issues that have been covered extensively on this forum.

Turbo Mikes finished build thread...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1328051

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by SeanS54

The twin turbos run hot, especially hotter if tuned and pushed for 20 straight minutes.



In the M3, if the corvette was not in my way to mess up my setup for the straight I would have definitely ran even faster perhaps a 1.43x (lap times are more about the straights than corners).

In the 335i, I've tracked Laguna numerous times and my best was 1.46 with that car in front of me. Again, straights make lap times so either way we're probably looking at ~2 seconds difference.

I'm not hating on the 335i, it's a great car. The frustration was I've dump thousands and thousands to get it track worthy and it would still limp on me at the track.




Agreed, the 335i has a lot of potential. I just decided to cut my losses before going over to the extreme race car build. Everything I've done to the M3 was "off the shelf" and it hasn't overheated on me once.

On the 335i I upgraded the radiator, custom setrab oil cooler with lower thermostat, 7" FMIC, and vented hood. If I gutted it and removed say 300 - 400 lbs and got a HUGE custom radiator and add another HUGE oil cooler perhaps it wouldn't overheat. But I didn't want to dump thousands more to not know for sure.

TT & TA are a few hot laps so the car would be fine. For HPDE if you're willing to cut your session short and run with the heater on than the car would also be fine.

Might be time for a 328i ;-)

But seriously, have you attempted to code out some of the fail-safes you are seeing, including the limp more from the brake temperature?

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Might be time for a 328i ;-)

But seriously, have you attempted to code out some of the fail-safes you are seeing, including the limp more from the brake temperature?

LOL. I'm fully committed to the E46 M3 now.

I was running into limp mode from engine temps, not brake temps. I prefer to leave the fail-safes in place.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by SeanS54

LOL. I'm fully committed to the E46 M3 now.

I was running into limp mode from engine temps, not brake temps. I prefer to leave the fail-safes in place.

You might as well leave DSC on then. That's not to say that there isn't problems with the way the chassis is designed, but a lot of issues with limp mode might not be engine oil temp induced, but instead the "Brake Overheat" failsafe that limits power. There are a bunch of nannies that can/should be coded out that wouldn't effect the safety of the car or driver in normal driving.

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

You might as well leave DSC on then. That's not to say that there isn't problems with the way the chassis is designed, but a lot of issues with limp mode might not be engine oil temp induced, but instead the "Brake Overheat" failsafe that limits power. There are a bunch of nannies that can/should be coded out that wouldn't effect the safety of the car or driver in normal driving.

You can't drive fast with DSC On.

I ran a front BBK, upgraded pads, lines, and brake fluid. It wasn't a brake related limp mode.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by SeanS54

You can't drive fast with DSC On.

I ran a front BBK, upgraded pads, lines, and brake fluid. It wasn't a brake related limp mode.

It probably was. The car has no way of actually checking the brake temperature, so it uses an algorithm to determine what it believes to be the brake overheating. If you were getting limp mode, this was likely why.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117725

http://www.onelapx1.com/blog/how-to-...w-actually-fun

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

It probably was. The car has no way of actually checking the brake temperature, so it uses an algorithm to determine what it believes to be the brake overheating. If you were getting limp mode, this was likely why.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117725

http://www.onelapx1.com/blog/how-to-...w-actually-fun

It was NOT brake related:

1) limp mode happened when my oil temps crept up
2) when I ran my heater on full blast it did not hit limp mode

[feuer]

What? E46 m3 is better? I guess I need to visit Laguna Seca with my 335i people hauler and break that M3 time.

[feuer]

Oops.. I wrote better. I meant faster. Anyway. E46 m3 is neither.

[SeanS54]

Originally Posted by feuer

What? E46 m3 is better? I guess I need to visit Laguna Seca with my 335i people hauler and break that M3 time.

Originally Posted by feuer

Oops.. I wrote better. I meant faster. Anyway. E46 m3 is neither.

Faster, better... depends on who you ask.

One things for sure, the S54 does not overheat like the N54.