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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N52 engine build :)



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      03-02-2018, 11:39 AM   #265
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Oh, yes, obviously the 3IM is a variable length pipe, but not continuously variable like the 787B and LaFerrari. Rather than optimize for three sweet spots one could continuously optimize over the rev range. And I guess you'd have velocity stacks coming out at whatever angle you'd want which might help you with your clearance issues.

I will say the folded octopus design of the 3IM is really a rather clever solution to a problem.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
heh, you know the 3-stage manifold is effectively a variable length intake right?

It doesn't fit on the E30 though, it's just too bulky. and the E30 is much lighter so I don't think I'll notice much (especially when it should pull to an 8k redline and actually make power there).

No, the M52 manifold will not fit. Completely different design. The 3 stage is really superior in every way anyway, unless you want to rev it past 7k..
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      03-02-2018, 12:07 PM   #266
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Awesome thread.

My motorcycle has variable length velocity stacks. (not my video)

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      03-02-2018, 12:28 PM   #267
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Awesome thread.
...
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      03-08-2018, 07:29 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Some pictures of the head damage:








Good thing is I have two complete heads, so I should be able to pull off parts from the other head to fix this one - excepting valves etc, I'll get new ones.

Otherwise the head *is* really clean inside - if the guides aren't damaged it really won't need much other than a light cleanup of the deck surface.
Did you end up disassembling intake camshaft? I need to remove exhaust and intake camshaft to replace valve stem seals, exhaust is simple but I'm confused with the intake one... The valvetronic springs need special 250$ tool? No other way?
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      03-08-2018, 08:49 AM   #269
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Well getting the springs off is no problem. You can use a screwdriver or something to pop them off the rockers. But getting them back on is rather tricky - I did one just to see if I could do it, and the answer was yes, but it was a huge pain. The rest I just popped off by undoing the nuts, as I didn't care what happened to that particular head. Maybe you could use a clamp or something to hold the springs down so you don't strip the threads while you remove the nuts.

Also this was on a stand where I could easily see everywhere (and work at a comfortable height) - I don't think you want to try that in the car..
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      03-08-2018, 09:04 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
Well getting the springs off is no problem. You can use a screwdriver or something to pop them off the rockers. But getting them back on is rather tricky - I did one just to see if I could do it, and the answer was yes, but it was a huge pain. The rest I just popped off by undoing the nuts, as I didn't care what happened to that particular head. Maybe you could use a clamp or something to hold the springs down so you don't strip the threads while you remove the nuts.

Also this was on a stand where I could easily see everywhere (and work at a comfortable height) - I don't think you want to try that in the car..
Alright thanks, I will be getting the tool to secure the tension springs, what about guide blocks? bmw repair manual states to use 114450 tool?

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      04-23-2018, 04:35 PM   #271
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Has,

Any news on physically retarding that intake cam 5 degrees?
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      04-23-2018, 05:42 PM   #272
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I did it on the bench and it seemed fine. I have not cracked open the valve cover on my E90 though.

Trying to get ahold of some Turner Motorsports N52 parts but no luck so far. Pete sent a head to my buddy's shop in Florida - so we'll get some data and head improvements at some point. I need to have one of my heads built, and put together the bottom end.. and a whole mess of other things.
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      04-24-2018, 08:23 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andas View Post
Alright thanks, I will be getting the tool to secure the tension springs, what about guide blocks? bmw repair manual states to use 114450 tool?

I think that this tool is to make sure the 'support' is fully seated against the head. The support mounting holes are slightly oval and the support can move/slide 'in-out'. When installing without the tool you just have to push the support all the way 'in' against the head, (2 support legs are against the head) and then tighten the 2 bolts.
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      07-24-2018, 07:49 AM   #274
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Any updates? I've got my heart set on a 633/635 n52 swap now !!!
Can n52s be ran right in another chassis? How about gauges etc?
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      07-24-2018, 08:10 AM   #275
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Any updates? I've got my heart set on a 633/635 n52 swap now !!!
Can n52s be ran right in another chassis? How about gauges etc?
He helped swap one into a E36, and he's swapping one in a E30.
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      07-24-2018, 08:42 AM   #276
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I just completed a swap into an e30: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=418889

Swap is pretty straightforward. The E30 requires the oil pan/pickup modification, which might not be needed on an e24. Hass/Bimmerlabs can do a full ews delete on the DME so you can run it standalanone. Then its just a matter of hooking everything up. For gauges, the tach output should be compatible with the stock e24 tach. Temp gauge and oil pressure light are easy. Now the N52 does not have a dipstick, and uses an electronic sensor. This is a bit more complicated to get something to work off the sensor. I think the better solution is to fab the pan to allow a dipstick. Never liked the electronic sensor anyway.

Chris
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      07-24-2018, 09:26 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwlo View Post
I just completed a swap into an e30: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=418889

Swap is pretty straightforward. The E30 requires the oil pan/pickup modification, which might not be needed on an e24. Hass/Bimmerlabs can do a full ews delete on the DME so you can run it standalanone. Then its just a matter of hooking everything up. For gauges, the tach output should be compatible with the stock e24 tach. Temp gauge and oil pressure light are easy. Now the N52 does not have a dipstick, and uses an electronic sensor. This is a bit more complicated to get something to work off the sensor. I think the better solution is to fab the pan to allow a dipstick. Never liked the electronic sensor anyway.

Chris
Read through the whole thing. HOw is it running?
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      07-24-2018, 09:27 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwlo View Post
I just completed a swap into an e30: https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=418889

Swap is pretty straightforward. The E30 requires the oil pan/pickup modification, which might not be needed on an e24. Hass/Bimmerlabs can do a full ews delete on the DME so you can run it standalanone. Then its just a matter of hooking everything up. For gauges, the tach output should be compatible with the stock e24 tach. Temp gauge and oil pressure light are easy. Now the N52 does not have a dipstick, and uses an electronic sensor. This is a bit more complicated to get something to work off the sensor. I think the better solution is to fab the pan to allow a dipstick. Never liked the electronic sensor anyway.

Chris
The N52 feels like the ultimate engine to swap into an e30, to me
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      07-24-2018, 06:40 PM   #279
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Its running really well and strong, especially in the upper rpm's and am looking forward to autocrossing it this weekend, which will give me more of a chance to really wind it up a bit.

I also just sent Hass the end for the oil pickup tube, so that he can get moving forward on his swap...looking forward to not being the only one, and seeing the possibility of itb's!
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      07-25-2018, 07:33 AM   #280
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Video footage would be amazing!!!! What are the chances?
Cheers
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      07-26-2018, 08:41 AM   #281
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I'll see about the video footage. Stay tuned.
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      02-21-2019, 02:32 PM   #282
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Good info here. Picked up an RX8 for pennies this week and had intentions to LS swap for an endurance track car. Thinking the spare N52 I have might anger more rotary heads than an LS.
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      02-26-2019, 10:21 AM   #283
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Any more updates Hass? Just finished reading through
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      03-16-2019, 06:24 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
No.. Don't need throttles at all.

It uses it to generate vacuum but will work file without it.

edit: S54 manifold should fit fairly well - just need a transition piece for the trumpets:


The runner length is shorter but the box volume is higher - might hurt torque a bit, but peak power should be higher. Not a good idea for a heavy pig E9x, but should be fine in an E30.
Hass...

We’re you actually able to fit this plenum?
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      03-16-2019, 08:52 AM   #285
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I need to make an adapter for the S54 throttles, but I don't see why it wouldn't fit.

I think honestly it should work better than the N54 manifold, but it's not without issues. You would eliminate the N52 throttle and use the S54 throttle actuator instead, which would need a bracket to attach to the head somehow. The OFH bolts interfere with throttle #1, so you would need to somehow modify the bolt, use a different bolt, or modify the throttle itself to clear.

And of course, in all likelyness they are a bit too big, although that can be solved by limiting the max opening to keep up velocity. Since the ports are bigger you would need the adapter plate to be tapered.

I have doubts whether this whole thing will fit inside the engine bay with all those stupid plastic covers. the airbox is huge. But my plan isn't to put this into an E90 anyway.

If you want to partner on brackets and adapter plates, I'd love to get this thing moving in the right direction.

Last edited by hassmaschine; 03-16-2019 at 08:58 AM..
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      03-16-2019, 10:16 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I need to make an adapter for the S54 throttles, but I don't see why it wouldn't fit.

I think honestly it should work better than the N54 manifold, but it's not without issues. You would eliminate the N52 throttle and use the S54 throttle actuator instead, which would need a bracket to attach to the head somehow. The OFH bolts interfere with throttle #1, so you would need to somehow modify the bolt, use a different bolt, or modify the throttle itself to clear.

And of course, in all likelyness they are a bit too big, although that can be solved by limiting the max opening to keep up velocity. Since the ports are bigger you would need the adapter plate to be tapered.

I have doubts whether this whole thing will fit inside the engine bay with all those stupid plastic covers. the airbox is huge. But my plan isn't to put this into an E90 anyway.

If you want to partner on brackets and adapter plates, I'd love to get this thing moving in the right direction.
Hass, I appreciate the offer but I’m looking to keep it simple and easy. I don’t know what the backside of that plenum looks like for connecting to the head but here’s what I’m thinking...

Cut a standard n52 manifold here:



Use some of these silicone couplers and hose clamps:



And join to that plenum. Then mount a throttle body on the opening of that plenum and run it to the stock maf housing on my airbox. The reason I would do it this way is I just measured my buddies 991.1 Carrera S Throttle Body yesterday. It measures 76mm diameter and that car makes 355hp from its N/A Flat 6:



I have a WCR big bore throttle body already on the car which is 79mm and the N54 TB is 77mm, so they both should allow plenty of airflow for our motors in my opinion. From the research I have done the main issue is for peak n/a power you want the largest plenum you can get and the shortest runners. Like take a look at this n52 build posted in the ceramic coat intake thread:



It has a huge plenum, short runners with what appears to be Silicone couplers, and uses a throttle body.

I don’t think you need to over complicate this but I understand if you want to go balls out with ITB’s and what not. I just want to try to keep it more simple, cheap, and usable as a daily.

I just finished up my newest N54 Manifold to go on the car this week. I offset the mounts, ported and sanded all the internal seams and throttle body opening, and bevelled all the edges to the runners where they meet head. I think the manifold looks almost ideal except it has a tiny plenum. If that could be greatly expanded I think the n54 would be close to ideal. Your plenum pictured looks like it would make a fairly easy swap if my ideas are right.
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