E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Running E85 Advice



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-30-2021, 11:47 AM   #1
Yotaismygame
First Lieutenant
Yotaismygame's Avatar
75
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i e92 (Beam)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: OR

iTrader: (0)

Running E85 Advice

Here in Oregon we don't really have E85 stations. The nearest one to me is 40 minutes away which is 1 of 10 from what I can gather. But the other day i saw an ad on FB for barrels of E85. Which got me thinking I would love to run the e85 maps on occasion that MHD provides.

Doing some research it seems I should upgrade my LPFP which is fine since I'm still on the original one @ 57k. I was thinking the Fuel it stage 2 DIY would be good. Now what I'm really wondering is should I just mix it and go, or should I spend the money and add in a Flex fuel sensor and the Motive Box for MHD? Sure would be nice to just pump in some E85 in my garage and go. But looking at the cost of all the parts and the install is it worth it?
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 12:28 PM   #2
Vivek.
Major
949
Rep
1,098
Posts

Drives: 335is coupe, e30 vert
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Gatos, California

iTrader: (0)

I may be biased since my ST car has Motiv Flex Fuel but I think it's definitely worth it--it is the 'do it once, do it right' way to go E85, IMO. Can't imagine having to estimate mixtures (this is hard because E85 is NOT spec'd as 85% ethanol, US spec is 51% to 83%), trying to run the tank as low as possible to get it all out, etc etc etc.

One thing to keep in mind is that E85 is unavoidably hard on certain seals, like the o-ring around the in-tank fuel pump under the driver's side of the back seat. Regular use will necessitate replacement every 2 years or so
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by relative4 View Post
My wife would give me so much head if I did that.
2013 335is Mineral/Coral - DR 6466 - DR Mani - PI - Motiv FF - Dodson Clutches - OEM CF Roof - M3 GTS DCT/LSD/DS/Halfshafts/Suspension/Subframe/Brakes/Chassis Bracing F+R - DEFIV Diff Brace - 437M/R888R
1992 318i Convertible - 2002 540i/6
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 12:33 PM   #3
Yotaismygame
First Lieutenant
Yotaismygame's Avatar
75
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i e92 (Beam)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek. View Post
I may be biased since my ST car has Motiv Flex Fuel but I think it's definitely worth it--it is the 'do it once, do it right' way to go E85, IMO. Can't imagine having to estimate mixtures (this is hard because E85 is NOT spec'd as 85% ethanol, US spec is 51% to 83%), trying to run the tank as low as possible to get it all out, etc etc etc.

One thing to keep in mind is that E85 is unavoidably hard on certain seals, like the o-ring around the in-tank fuel pump under the driver's side of the back seat. Regular use will necessitate replacement every 2 years or so
I would be running at most e60 mix. I believe that's what I read. Fuel system wont keep up past that. Read stock at best e30ish but some have been able to get away with e50. I would not being running this every tank, and I don't drive the car all that much.

I'd like to hear from guys who run it just by calculating the mix. The motive way sounds best, agreed.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 12:49 PM   #4
NoGuru
Major
NoGuru's Avatar
579
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 335is
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 Jeep Cherokee  [0.00]
2014 CTS  [0.00]
2011 335is  [0.00]
I have ran FF for a couple years and now just run an E45 mix and will be tuned for Full E soon.
I have zero issues calculating the mix. I have a Fuel IT Bluetooth Ethanol sensor and with the phone app you can say (I have X amount of fuel in the tank, and current Ethanol reading is X, and I want to be at X or E60) it will tell you put 4.5 gallons of E and 6 gallons of 93 or whatever you have set.
The FF setup broke and Motive spent a year with me trying to get it working and never did.
That's my 2 cents. Defiantly worth going E.
__________________
2011 335is DCT BQ Tuning / BMS CAI / VRSF kittyless DP's / Synapse BOV and charge pipe / 7" VRSF Race FMIC / Walbro 535 and 450 on Hobbs / E45 tune / Diff Brace / PR Coils / Relocation Inlets / DAW Stage3+ Turbos / MMP port injection / xHP Stage 3 / FPR and -6 fuel lines
Appreciate 1
Vivek.949.00
      04-30-2021, 12:57 PM   #5
Emilime75
Colonel
1177
Rep
2,475
Posts

Drives: 2010 335i E92 LeMans Blue
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Merica!

iTrader: (1)

I think the need for having FF is diminished if you're buying E by the barrel. The content will remain constant throughout that barrel, so you only need to measure it once and use simple calculators after that. Having a content reader in the car would be helpful, though.
Appreciate 1
FCobra942662.00
      04-30-2021, 01:09 PM   #6
Yotaismygame
First Lieutenant
Yotaismygame's Avatar
75
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i e92 (Beam)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: OR

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the opinions so far. Keep em coming.

Maybe I should grab a 55gal barrel @ $4.00/gal and start with just hand calculating. It's about $900 to upgrade the LPFP, short line kit, FF sensor, and the motive box. So I'd be looking at over a grand to run Flex fuel. Worth it?
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 01:21 PM   #7
pysical
Captain
93
Rep
651
Posts

Drives: 2009 335xi
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Laurel MD

iTrader: (1)

The flex fuel sensor is worth it. You may get a barrel that is X %E85 and then you run a tune set for that content. Then you get another barrel that is now a different % and now you need another tune for it.

Or say you have 1/4th tank of 93 but want to fill it up with E85 of X %. Now you are dealing with different percentages and different tunes. I would get the Flex Fuel sensor by Motiv so you don't have to deal with any of that. Then you get one tune made and it will scale everything based on the %. As far as the fuel pump I would get a Precision Raceworks pump. It is a nice bucket setup and allows you to upgrade in the future.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 02:06 PM   #8
iqraceworks
Colonel
iqraceworks's Avatar
895
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

If you are going to buy a barrel of it, you should be able to test it with an ethanol tester, and figure out the ethanol in it. Unlike getting it from the pump, the e content of your drum of e85 should be consistent.

If it was me, I would just mix it and go from there.

On a side note, make sure you don't have any regulations or restrictions in your town/neighborhood/etc/etc about storing that much fuel in your garage or shop. Also, keep in mind that a drum of e85 is going to weight around 360lbs....so it's going to be a pain to load/unload/move that drum of fuel around when it's full.

Just some other things to think about.....
__________________
2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Catless Downpipes, silicone inlets, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension, Whiteline subframe bushings, Front/Rear M3 control arms, G-Plus FMIC, Stage 2 LPFP, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
Appreciate 1
Vivek.949.00
      04-30-2021, 02:08 PM   #9
iqraceworks
Colonel
iqraceworks's Avatar
895
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotaismygame View Post
Thanks for the opinions so far. Keep em coming.

Maybe I should grab a 55gal barrel @ $4.00/gal and start with just hand calculating. It's about $900 to upgrade the LPFP, short line kit, FF sensor, and the motive box. So I'd be looking at over a grand to run Flex fuel. Worth it?
If it was me, I would spend that money on a bigger set of turbos that will get you the same amount of power or more on 91/93 fuel. Especially since you don't have e85 in your area.
__________________
2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Catless Downpipes, silicone inlets, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension, Whiteline subframe bushings, Front/Rear M3 control arms, G-Plus FMIC, Stage 2 LPFP, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 04:36 PM   #10
Luis561
Second Lieutenant
63
Rep
207
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i e90
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

An ethanol tester is cheap. That's what I use to test if the e85 really is e85 at gas stations, it's $2.5 a gallon here in Florida sometimes it goes down to $1.75

Check out this diy

https://bmw135iblog.wordpress.com/20...-pump-upgrade/

I did it a year ago and it's been running great so far, total $ in supplies was around 150.
Having a bucket is a huge plus, you can run low gas to reduce weight and suffer no fuel starvation
At 50% capacity, I run an e50 mix of 3.733 gal of 93 and 4.267 gal of e85
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 04:38 PM   #11
Luis561
Second Lieutenant
63
Rep
207
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i e90
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis561 View Post
An ethanol tester is cheap. That's what I use to test if the e85 really is e85 at gas stations, it's $2.5 a gallon here in Florida sometimes it goes down to $1.75

Check out this diy

https://bmw135iblog.wordpress.com/20...-pump-upgrade/

I did it a year ago and it's been running great so far, total $ in supplies was around 150.
Having a bucket is a huge plus, you can run low gas to reduce weight and suffer no fuel starvation
At 50% capacity, I run an e50 mix of 3.733 gal of 93 and 4.267 gal of e85
Also your mpg will down to around 10 lol
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 05:10 PM   #12
Ozzie335i
Major
United_States
586
Rep
1,446
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: DFW

iTrader: (1)

For an e50 blend in my area (DFW), I divide the amount of gas needed by 12 as my mix is 7 parts e85 to 5 parts of 93 oct. Then multiply by 7 for the e85, with the rest 93. If I am at 1/4 of a tank it comes out perfectly to 7 gallons of e85, and 5 gallons of 93. Using my formula I am always within +/- a point or two of e50.

I don't care about MPG.
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 05:36 PM   #13
iqraceworks
Colonel
iqraceworks's Avatar
895
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Yep...mine went from 27mpg on the highway to 16mpg on an E50 tune. I don't really care about the mpg/cost....but it seems like I'm having to fill the car up all the time!
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2021, 05:37 PM   #14
iqraceworks
Colonel
iqraceworks's Avatar
895
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie335i View Post
For an e50 blend in my area (DFW), I divide the amount of gas needed by 12 as my mix is 7 parts e85 to 5 parts of 93 oct. Then multiply by 7 for the e85, with the rest 93. If I am at 1/4 of a tank it comes out perfectly to 7 gallons of e85, and 5 gallons of 93. Using my formula I am always within +/- a point or two of e50.

I don't care about MPG.
I use the "E85 Blend" app on my phone....super easy to dial in the right mix every time.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2021, 03:00 PM   #15
Yotaismygame
First Lieutenant
Yotaismygame's Avatar
75
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i e92 (Beam)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
If it was me, I would spend that money on a bigger set of turbos that will get you the same amount of power or more on 91/93 fuel. Especially since you don't have e85 in your area.
Problem with that is I'm not sure how long im going to keep this car. Throwing aftermarket turbo's on it will only diminish the value and make it harder to sell. I've already put more into this car then I should have. If I decided I'm going to keep it for at least a few years I'll go single turbo. On the fence right now. Do I need two fun vehicles? This supplier claims each barrel is consistent. My thought was if people agreed I could get away without a sensor then upgrading the LPFP which probably needs done eventually anyways I could just grab a barrel and gain a little HP when I wanted.
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2021, 03:15 PM   #16
ky0u
Captain
ky0u's Avatar
United_States
729
Rep
692
Posts

Drives: 2007 e92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
I've been wanting the flex fluel monitor. But so far I haven't had issues making do with a 5 gallon can, a manual test tube and just doing ratio calculations.

Luckily, California is fairly consistent with it's e85 content. so the test tube is a bit of a formality for me. I guess it's only in certain regions where the 51-83% thing is an issue.

If youre getting a whole ass barrel, you should be okay with a the manual tester tbh. You can usually find them for like $10-15
__________________
IG: @dragon_e92

Build Thread
Appreciate 1
      05-01-2021, 04:53 PM   #17
NoGuru
Major
NoGuru's Avatar
579
Rep
1,230
Posts

Drives: 335is
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 Jeep Cherokee  [0.00]
2014 CTS  [0.00]
2011 335is  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pysical View Post
The flex fuel sensor is worth it. You may get a barrel that is X %E85 and then you run a tune set for that content. Then you get another barrel that is now a different % and now you need another tune for it.

Or say you have 1/4th tank of 93 but want to fill it up with E85 of X %. Now you are dealing with different percentages and different tunes. I would get the Flex Fuel sensor by Motiv so you don't have to deal with any of that. Then you get one tune made and it will scale everything based on the %. As far as the fuel pump I would get a Precision Raceworks pump. It is a nice bucket setup and allows you to upgrade in the future.
That's not how it works. You don't adjust the tune, you adjust the fuel ratio.
I currently have an E45 tune, and I can run anywhere from E40 to E50 with no issues at all. Actually, you get about a 30% range depending on the tune.

Here are two screen shots from my phone. If I were in my car and connected it would say like, E46. Now when I pull up to the pump I can swipe to the side and get this screen that does that calc for me.
Attached Images
  
__________________
2011 335is DCT BQ Tuning / BMS CAI / VRSF kittyless DP's / Synapse BOV and charge pipe / 7" VRSF Race FMIC / Walbro 535 and 450 on Hobbs / E45 tune / Diff Brace / PR Coils / Relocation Inlets / DAW Stage3+ Turbos / MMP port injection / xHP Stage 3 / FPR and -6 fuel lines
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2021, 08:52 AM   #18
Ozzie335i
Major
United_States
586
Rep
1,446
Posts

Drives: 2011 335i
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: DFW

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
I use the "E85 Blend" app on my phone....super easy to dial in the right mix every time.
I've got the app. Oops, I never did the slide sideways thing, thus working it harder than I needed to.
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2021, 09:14 AM   #19
Soden82
Captain
227
Rep
754
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 335i xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Boston

iTrader: (1)

I'm going through the same issue myself. E85 is about 30 miles from me but I do want to run more power more consistently. I'm planning to buy one or two 14 gallon Amazon containers and fill those up at the pump in my truck and bring them home to store in my garage.

My friends do something similar with a bunch of 6 gallon jugs.

I'm going to upgrade to at least a stage 2 LPFP, the fuel it Bluetooth sensor with lines, and the motiv flex fuel kit.

You'll also need a 3.5 bar map sensor for anything over 20psi.
__________________
2009 BMW 335i 6MT
*big single (eventually)*
For now...
MHD tuned
VRSF Race IC
DCI
ATM exhaust
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2021, 06:55 AM   #20
iqraceworks
Colonel
iqraceworks's Avatar
895
Rep
2,522
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yotaismygame View Post
Problem with that is I'm not sure how long im going to keep this car. Throwing aftermarket turbo's on it will only diminish the value and make it harder to sell. I've already put more into this car then I should have. If I decided I'm going to keep it for at least a few years I'll go single turbo. On the fence right now. Do I need two fun vehicles? This supplier claims each barrel is consistent. My thought was if people agreed I could get away without a sensor then upgrading the LPFP which probably needs done eventually anyways I could just grab a barrel and gain a little HP when I wanted.
Not sure I would agree with that unless your OEM turbos are very low mileage. A newer set of "quality" aftermarket turbos would definitely add value to the car.

But it's a good chunk of money, so if your going to sell the car it's probably not worth it.
__________________
2007 335i, BMS DCI, BMS Chargepipe w/Tial BOV, ARM Catless Downpipes, silicone inlets, Bilstein B12 Prokit Suspension, Whiteline subframe bushings, Front/Rear M3 control arms, G-Plus FMIC, Stage 2 LPFP, MHD Stage 2+ tune, xHP stage 3 transmission flash.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2021, 10:15 AM   #21
Yotaismygame
First Lieutenant
Yotaismygame's Avatar
75
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i e92 (Beam)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iqraceworks View Post
Not sure I would agree with that unless your OEM turbos are very low mileage. A newer set of "quality" aftermarket turbos would definitely add value to the car.

But it's a good chunk of money, so if your going to sell the car it's probably not worth it.
Car only has 57k on it. What happens when you modify a car past a certain point the group of people willing to buy such a car gets smaller. Thus making it harder to sell, thus in general lowering the value.

What sells easier a completely stock car or a highly modified car?
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2021, 10:18 AM   #22
Yotaismygame
First Lieutenant
Yotaismygame's Avatar
75
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: 2008 335i e92 (Beam)
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: OR

iTrader: (0)

Not sure what I'm going to do as far as E85 is concerned. Probably just a grab a barrel and do some math for now. No hurry though. I have plenty of things to keep me occupied. It would make more sense to get inlet and outlets plus a custom tune but right now I'm tired of working on this car. Nice to just enjoy it for a moment.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST