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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > My 335d Nox sensor/DEF nightmare



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      12-09-2016, 08:43 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerdiaz View Post
Can someone break it down simple relationship between NOX sensor and Active tank ses errors. Indy wants $4600.51 USD. I have decided to sell the car.
Not sure what codes are popping up for you, but I had the P20EE/4D16 code pop up at one time. I think what happens a lot of time is that the dealers/mechanics just throw parts at it. I've seen a few posts that seem to indicate that simply cleaning the metering valve will remedy the situation.

I'll try to answer your original question as best I can, but there are far smarter and more knowledgeable people on this forum that could probably take a better shot at it. There are two NOx sensors. One before the SCR/DEF injection, and one after. Their purpose is to measure a reduction in NOx in the exhaust stream. If for some reason you DEF tank/system stops working their will obviously be no more reduction in NOx hence the codes. My opinion is that the NOx sensors in most cases are ok, and do not need replacing, but it appears that they just get replaced with everything else.

I think there is also an error code associated with the DEF tank heater. That was a known problem on TDIs as well (had it happen on my Passat).

I remedied the situation with a tune. I am assuming you do not have diesel emissions test in Durham, so I think that would be your best option.....and much cheaper than $4600.
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      12-09-2016, 09:48 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqu3 View Post
I meant instead of having to mail in the tune, he could drive up to them(in a different car obvioulsy), give them them the DDE, have it tuned, and come pick it up later on in the day. Much less of a delay than mailing in. I assume that's alright with BPC. I know that they don't wrench on diesels anymore, except for general maintenance.
Gottcha, Not having to worry about a package getting lost during Christmas rush is a big bonus too.
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      12-09-2016, 07:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTC1 View Post
Not sure what codes are popping up for you, but I had the P20EE/4D16 code pop up at one time. I think what happens a lot of time is that the dealers/mechanics just throw parts at it. I've seen a few posts that seem to indicate that simply cleaning the metering valve will remedy the situation.

I'll try to answer your original question as best I can, but there are far smarter and more knowledgeable people on this forum that could probably take a better shot at it. There are two NOx sensors. One before the SCR/DEF injection, and one after. Their purpose is to measure a reduction in NOx in the exhaust stream. If for some reason you DEF tank/system stops working their will obviously be no more reduction in NOx hence the codes. My opinion is that the NOx sensors in most cases are ok, and do not need replacing, but it appears that they just get replaced with everything else.

I think there is also an error code associated with the DEF tank heater. That was a known problem on TDIs as well (had it happen on my Passat).

I remedied the situation with a tune. I am assuming you do not have diesel emissions test in Durham, so I think that would be your best option.....and much cheaper than $4600.
Cleared the code. Will research how to clean metering valve. Car is still for sale on forum. Going to CarMax and then dealership to see how much for trade-in I can get. I'm not a tuner, but may end up doing to keep it. Car is a beast.
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      12-16-2016, 04:41 PM   #48
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my 2011 335d just had the SES come on sure enough it needs active tank replacement. Help a novice out about what "ABC delete" is and how it remdies this $2500 fiasco? Thank you!
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      12-16-2016, 05:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvran23
my 2011 335d just had the SES come on sure enough it needs active tank replacement. Help a novice out about what "ABC delete" is and how it remdies this $2500 fiasco? Thank you!
Use the search feature. there's countless of simple explanation several places regarding what your asking.
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      12-16-2016, 05:02 PM   #50
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Thanks!
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      12-17-2016, 09:39 PM   #51
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SCR codes

Howdy,

Went through similar issues with DEF + SCR,
The DEF fluid in the tank will degrade w/ time+heat -
Roughly from what I gathered reading all over forum,

I had several codes, it was random, not all codes at once,
$4BB2 = front NOx sensor signal out of range
$4D16 = SCR injector low flow
$P20EE = SCR catalyst low efficiency

$46B4 = in-tank thermocouple short
(the tank only has a module with a heater and level sensors, and thermocouple - there seems to be a VW module that seems to be compatible $300...BMW sells the whole tank at ~$1500 for part)
I installed my own thermocouple, $4.18 + my free labor..

The repair plan states as 1st step for the $4D16 is to flush/replace DEF fluid.

Once the fluid degrades, logic has a tough time deciding if the issue is with SCR injector, or the NOx sensor, or the SCR catalyst.

And there was a software revision/reflash, Service Action 626, which seems to deal with the diagnostic and thresholds of judging SCR issues.
Parts alone may not fix, but parts+software seems to.

In my case, I put new fluid, a new SCR injector ($180), and a used front NOX sensor ($99) - new one is $550..Seems the NOX sensor was developed as a joint venture of NGK/Continental, and BMW + MB + VW + GM use variations of this NOX sensor - the BMW one is 8-wire + a module that seems to convert sensor to CAN message.

My guess, is that it could be possible to use a GM NOX sensor ($139) and then splice to BMW module (some cutting/splicing needed) - there seem to be like 40 variations of this Continental module + sensor - varied pigtails lenghts, etc.

I was able to get rid of the $4D16, $P20EE, $4BB2; and been MIL free for about 1 month and 50 trips. (used to get a code every trip)

There are other options, in my case I wanted to keep as close as possible to original intent.

Hope this helps,

* the SCR injector is easy to replace, it is reached from under car, it is approx below pass seat; access panel, 2 screws, 1 connector
* when the fluid degrades, the injected urea does not convert the Nox as efficiently as expected;

Last edited by m3driver999; 12-17-2016 at 09:45 PM..
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      07-11-2017, 06:43 PM   #52
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Extended Warranty Covered NOx Sensor 335D

Good NEWS!!! BMW is extending warranty replacement of the NOx Sensor! I had the very same problem with my 2011 335D with the NOX sensor going out a couple months ago. I used my scanner to take a look at the code and then had the car in for an oil change soon after. The SA at the dealership told me it wasn't a pressing issue and I could still get around without doing any damage. I did not have them verify the sensor at that time, I was going by my scan tool. Then low and behold a letter from BMW North America arrives listing my VIN with extended warranty coverage of the NOx sensor for vehicles up to 10 years or 100,000 miles. Yahoo!!! Saved some bucks, got it in the shop now and the SA confirmed the NOx sensor is indeed bad. My 335D was registered with BMW, I'm guessing that's how they got my address and then the letter. Ya'll might want to take a look at their website and see if your's qualifies.

-Cheers.
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      07-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #53
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I had a n0x sensor code i forget what it was but the car ran fine and theres also a second code stating there was reduced pump output. Codes just popped up the day i bought the car its a 2010 and i got it in april this year. So i drove it like that until my low def fluid warning came on. I filled it back up with fresh def maybe close to 5 gallons worth and boom my codes would clear and never returned. Now i just have a my egr codes because i blocked it off haha.
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      11-08-2019, 09:27 AM   #54
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My 2009 335d with 86K miles showed NOX sensor to be bad. I am 2 months outside the warranty of 10 yrs/120K miles, BMW wants me to pay $1300 out of pocket (good will). Called BMW customer service and they said NO, they will not honor the warranty because it is 2 months past even though am below 33K miles.
I declined the repairs. I think I will buy these NOX sensors for $878 for both- genuine BMW and install it myself.
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      11-08-2019, 03:13 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bballfreak View Post
My 2009 335d with 86K miles showed NOX sensor to be bad. I am 2 months outside the warranty of 10 yrs/120K miles, BMW wants me to pay $1300 out of pocket (good will). Called BMW customer service and they said NO, they will not honor the warranty because it is 2 months past even though am below 33K miles.
I declined the repairs. I think I will buy these NOX sensors for $878 for both- genuine BMW and install it myself.
I am not using mine if you want to pick up a used set cheap. Let me know.
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      08-21-2021, 03:48 PM   #56
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How much for your used set of NOx sensors if you still have them?
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      12-08-2021, 09:07 AM   #57
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335d Nox Sensor

Well, the overdue emission gremlins have finally caught up with my 2009 335D:
Original owner, stock with 222k kms(138k miles), original injectors, themostat maintaining 88 deg , no full walnut blast to date but decarboned the intake manifold in 2020 while replacing the glow plug controller
Last month:
Code 4BF0(Nitrogen oxide sensor after SCR catalytic converter)NOX SIGNAL INVALID FOR TOO LONG
Cleared the error code
More Recently:
Code 4744V: NITROGEN OXIDE SENSOR DOWNSTREAM OF SCR CATALYTIC CONVERTER, LINE DISCONNECTION SHORT CIRCUIT TO B+: OPEN CIRCUIT and Code 4B3A (Nitrogen oxide sensor downstream of SCR catalytic
converter, short circuit to ground)
These most recent codes point to this downstream Nox sensor. I am trying to remove to clean and or replace but, not unexpectedly, after 12 years of service, despite penetrant, some heat, a 22mm wrench with sharp blows from a 3 lb. hammer, it has not budged. As brute force can result in unexpected consequences(i.e. something has to give), this path is my resort. What has been the experience of others in successful removal?
Did the offset crowsfoot O2 senor removal tool mentioned in a few threads by BB_ Cuda make the differemce and does a 22 mm actually exist as most I've researched say universal 7/8"/22mm, but I am leery of rounding the hex nut with the slightly larger 7/8 when such extreme force is needed)? More heat? Any advice from you experienced folks would be much appreciated.
Based on the error codes, am I likely down the right path?
Thanks
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      01-08-2022, 03:57 PM   #58
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NOX Sensor Bung

Hello All,
Can anyone provide a manufacturers name or part number for an M20 X1.5 bung that on has sourced and used on our 335d?
Not surprisingly, the original 13 year old downstream Nox sensor needing replacement was not too willing to leave its home, hence the need for a new weld bung for the exhaust mid section.
With the less common M20x1.5 size seemingly scarce in Canada, I am looking to source online from the U.S. but there are multiple version with subtle differences to choose from.
Any help in identifying one that has known fitment with our Continental OEM Nox sensor would be appreciated.
Regards
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      03-04-2022, 07:42 PM   #59
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335d Nox sensor replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpm View Post
Well, the overdue emission gremlins have finally caught up with my 2009 335D:
Original owner, original nox sensors Stock with 222k kms(138k miles),
Recent CEL error codes:
Code 4BF0
Code 4744V
Code 4B3A
Update
With original intent to clean and re-install downstream sensor, old sensor removal of was not possible ...... tried most removal technique/tricks used, seen or read about but 12 years in a harsh environment prevailed.

Nox sensor replacement became necessary. I engaged the best local custom exhaust shop to to remove the old sensor and bung with a plasma cutter and weld in a new bung. Cost $125 but avoided the cost($2k) of a new BMW exhaust mid section that no doubt would have been the dealer solution to such a dilemma. Nice end result!
Codes cleared and no returning error codes since.

Word of Caution should others decide to go this route: Many exhaust shops only stock and are familiar with M18x1.5 bungs that are standard with O2 sensors. Our diesels Nox sensors fit a M20x1.5 bungs .....don't assume they know or you may get a surprise at time of nox sensor installation!

Last edited by kpm; 03-04-2022 at 07:54 PM.. Reason: provide clarity
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      03-05-2022, 10:10 AM   #60
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Nos Sensor Bung ....Solution/Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpm View Post
NOX Sensor Bung

Hello All,
Can anyone provide a manufacturers name or part number for an M20 X1.5 bung that on has sourced and used on our 335d?
Not surprisingly, the original 13 year old downstream Nox sensor needing replacement was not too willing to leave its home, hence the need for a new weld bung for the exhaust mid section.
With the less common M20x1.5 size seemingly scarce in Canada, I am looking to source online from the U.S. but there are multiple version with subtle differences to choose from.
Any help in identifying one that has known fitment with our Continental OEM Nox sensor would be appreciated.
Regards
With no responses to my info request, I thought I would share my findings:
  • Multiple bungs with varying specs and dimensions are available with an M20 X 1.5 thread.
  • No supplier could cross reference a part number specific to our BMW diesels beyond ("it should fit a Continental Nox sensor") given our small presence in the market.
  • The part pictured below was an exact match for my original downstream sensor bung. Dimensions were verified with a vernier caliper on the removed OEM bung
  • Best sources I found in Canada were specialty truck exhaust shops in Vancouver and Toronto.
Trust this might help others with aging original nox sensors surviving beyond their expected life and warranty>
https://www.e90post.com/forums/attac...1&d=1646496392
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      11-15-2022, 10:05 AM   #61
kpm
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Followup to Rear Nox Sensor Replacement

CEL error codes:
4BF0, 4744V, 4B3A

6 months and 10,0000 kms since I replaced my downstream(rear)Nox sensor.(only rear was generating error codes).
I DID NOT RESET ADAPTIONS given that my INPA software was not capable of reset, I did not have access to ISTA software and investgation and logic suggested that reset may not be necessary for "rear only" replacement with the purpose it serves(monitoring nox reduction).
I can report that no further Nox realated codes, no drivability issues and can still can eke out 1000 kms from a tank of fuel on a long trips.
Please note: I would not forego the "adaptions reset" process for a "front" Nox sensor replacement as to my understanding, it provides input to fuel and engine management.
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      03-16-2023, 10:07 PM   #62
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kpm

Thank You for posting your experience with yours. I have almost identical error codes, but I have been resetting it a couple times and the ground fault only showed up once or twice after some test drives.

I posted my sensor outputs and everything looks fine here: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...0#post29942940, but given you replaced yours with the same issue I am having, I am assuming the same course of action is required on my end.

I will post back if replacing the sensor fixed my issue. Also, thankfully my sensor came off easily once I heated up the exhaust bung.
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      03-16-2023, 11:54 PM   #63
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Xerix
Glad to hear you were able to remove your sensor intact. Given the cost of these sensors and the fact that both of our CEL codes encountered were intermittent and various, you may want to try cleaning the sensor and checking for clean electrical connections first. I do recall reading online of cases where removal and cleaning cleared up the error codes. This was my initial intent but was no longer an option after destruction in removal.
All the best!
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      03-17-2023, 01:03 PM   #64
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Replaced downstream nox sensor with new one. All is good now.
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