M3 Subframe bushes

Phil325i · 04-23-2015, 10:12 AM

A question for those of you who've changed your E9X subframe bushes to M3. I get the improvement to the handling, but what I want to know is an honest opinion on the effects on NVH and ride quality. Preferably from someone who's only changed the subs, and not most of the entire suspension! Thanks guys.

kevinlevrone · 04-23-2015, 10:24 AM

There are no real downsides, no extra noise or vibration. But the car will feel quite stiff in the rear compared to the front at first if you only do the bushings. The front needs to be balanced afterwards with the M3 front arms and an overall stiffer suspension (shocks at least) will complete the balance.

gmorris · 04-23-2015, 11:07 AM

I agree, no noticeable increase in vibration or harshness, just a more solid feeling rear axle. Especially noticeable when hitting mid corner bumps where it doesn't feel like the body is stepping sideways over the suspension anymore. Only downside is the cost and PITA install.

andrey_gta · 04-23-2015, 11:11 AM

From what I read across all e8x e9x and M
If you have a a Diff lock down kit OR very stiff Diff bushes, then the wrong choice of Subframe Bushes will add to NVH noises etc.

If you dont plan to run stiff Diff bushes you can get Alu/Derlin Subframe bushes with out any extra downsides, NVH will not be much of an issue

cpie168 · 04-23-2015, 05:56 PM

How do bushing inserts compare to M3 bushings performance wise?

feuer · 04-23-2015, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpie168

How do bushing inserts compare to M3 bushings performance wise?

they are between stock and m3 or about 70% from M3 bushings for about 70% less $

mmmnot · 04-24-2015, 07:22 AM

Only downside I figured was that they were not solid like Turners

nitehawk · 04-24-2015, 08:35 AM

No downsides, just do it!

Ml3456 · 04-24-2015, 09:34 AM

You can do the mod itself with great results. Don't need new arms up front or anything else.

ksalih · 04-24-2015, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmnot

Only downside I figured was that they were not solid like Turners

This. Go solid. No added NVH over m3.

cpie168 · 04-24-2015, 11:08 AM

What are Turners?

mmmnot · 04-24-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpie168

What are Turners?

Solid aluminum bushings.

Yes, yes, your instinct is to say OH MY GAWD. SO NOISE. MUCH VIBRATION.

But, I assure you. If you can handle run flat noise, these are nothing.

I'd die before I go back.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14...m-e82-e9x.aspx

ksalih · 04-24-2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmnot

Solid aluminum bushings.

Yes, yes, your instinct is to say OH MY GAWD. SO NOISE. MUCH VIBRATION.

But, I assure you. If you can handle run flat noise, these are nothing.

I'd die before I go back.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14...m-e82-e9x.aspx

I thought you were referring the to delrin ones. I've wondered if anybody has experience with these solid aluminum ones. Like them?

Kagan

mmmnot · 04-24-2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksalih

I thought you were referring the to delrin ones. I've wondered if anybody has experience with these solid aluminum ones. Like them?

Kagan

It's by far, the most I've had out of any suspension mod.

It has stabilized the rear end to no belief. No wheel hop over bumps in the road. It seems to transfer more power as well, it could be all mental, but it feels like the car is transferring more power to the actual ground.

You DO hear a whine (with the diff bushings I also upgraded to)

I wish I did this mod before anything else, honestly.

ksalih · 04-24-2015, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmmnot

It's by far, the most I've had out of any suspension mod.

It has stabilized the rear end to no belief. No wheel hop over bumps in the road. It seems to transfer more power as well, it could be all mental, but it feels like the car is transferring more power to the actual ground.

You DO hear a whine (with the diff bushings I also upgraded to)

I wish I did this mod before anything else, honestly.

So glad to hear man. I couldn't decide between these solid aluminum or the solid delrin. I knew the m3 would be too soft for my liking. I wonder what justifies the higher price in the solid delrin compared to the solid aluminum? You're initial response is going to be my reason for pulling the trigger on the solid aluminum. Pita install I imagine (shop press).

mmmnot · 04-24-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksalih

So glad to hear man. I couldn't decide between these solid aluminum or the solid delrin. I knew the m3 would be too soft for my liking. I wonder what justifies the higher price in the solid delrin compared to the solid aluminum? You're initial response is going to be my reason for pulling the trigger on the solid aluminum. Pita install I imagine (shop press).

Bingo on the install. It's a PITA, but I'm a noob and mechanical idiot.

If you're going to do the sub, I'd suggest do the diff as well and get it all on lock down.

I state again, you will hear a 'whine' but it's actually pretty cool. I enjoy it and in conjunction with any catless exhaust - it just sounds cool. I don't know how to explain it. It's almost like I feel more connected to the car in a way and often will drive with the radio off.

I'm with you, M3's ive ridden in seem very soft and more towards enjoyable comfy driving rather than more aggressive responsive.

I literally feel any pebble on the road, hell, when I drive over painted arrows now I can feel it in the rear end. It might drive some crazy, but I just like the driver feedback and responsiveness. If you do this, PLEASE follow up, would love to hear your thoughts and impression.

Fundguy1 · 04-24-2015, 03:08 PM

For me the downside was they were too soft. I didn't want to go all the way to solid and subject my butt to feeling paint on the street, but I wanted more stiff to kill wheel hop. So I'm going to AKE black. Powerflex Black would be similar. Stiff as heck but still a lil give to kill NVH. Best of both worlds as far as I can see.

ksalih · 04-24-2015, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

For me the downside was they were too soft. I didn't want to go all the way to solid and subject my butt to feeling paint on the street, but I wanted more stiff to kill wheel hop. So I'm going to AKE black. Powerflex Black would be similar. Stiff as heck but still a lil give to kill NVH. Best of both worlds as far as I can see.

Why not try solid delrin as opposed to solid aluminum?

feuer · 04-24-2015, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

but I wanted more stiff to kill wheel hop

subframe bushings won't help you much if something at all with wheel hop.
Diff bushings > yes.
Diff lockdown > yes.
Good tires >yes.
Proper shock and spring > yes.
Good alignment > yes.
Better toe arms > yes.

Fundguy1 · 04-24-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feuer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

but I wanted more stiff to kill wheel hop

subframe bushings won't help you much if something at all with wheel hop.
Diff bushings > yes.
Diff lockdown > yes.
Good tires >yes.
Proper shock and spring > yes.
Good alignment > yes.
Better toe arms > yes.

diff lockdown check
coilovers check
LSD with new bushings check
good tires check
good alignment check
have to look at better rear toe arms lol

feuer · 04-24-2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

have to look at better rear toe arms lol

yes, because under load the oem bushing twist which is affecting toe in/out causing the tire to lose its optimal contact area with the surface. Go with Megan or Manzo
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1075804

i'm sorry OP for

John_01 · 04-24-2015, 07:16 PM

There is a slight difference when you first install them. They are rubber and take time to soften and break in. I experienced this in a E90 with M-sport suspension and no other mods, running on conventional tires. The M3 bushings will soften gradually over about 1,500 miles or so. Don't let that that make you worry. Its probably the best single mod you can do to the car.

04-23-2015, 10:12 AM	#1
Phil325i Brigadier General 615 Rep 3,194 Posts Drives: E92 325i MSport Coupe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: UK South East iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW 325i Coupe [6.00]	M3 Subframe bushes - downsides? A question for those of you who've changed your E9X subframe bushes to M3. I get the improvement to the handling, but what I want to know is an honest opinion on the effects on NVH and ride quality. Preferably from someone who's only changed the subs, and not most of the entire suspension! Thanks guys. __________________ E92 pre-LCI 325i - Ohlins R&T; H&R spacers; M3 strut brace; Swift thrust sheets; 3 x chassis braces; diff brace; N53 V-brace; 034 subframe inserts; BMS clutch stop; BMS CDV; RE g/box mounts; Delrin shift bushes; Saikoumichi OCC; Cyba scoops; BMW Perf Exhaust; HEL s/steel brake hoses; M3 rear spoiler; Recaro Sportster CSs; M3 white dash LEDs; LED Angels; LED side repeaters; BMW Perf black grille; CSL reps; SSDD carbon diffuser; Monster Wrap black roof/clear front
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04-23-2015, 10:24 AM	#2
kevinlevrone Lieutenant 261 Rep 435 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	There are no real downsides, no extra noise or vibration. But the car will feel quite stiff in the rear compared to the front at first if you only do the bushings. The front needs to be balanced afterwards with the M3 front arms and an overall stiffer suspension (shocks at least) will complete the balance.
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04-23-2015, 11:07 AM	#3
gmorris Enlisted Member 6 Rep 33 Posts Drives: 2010 335i xdrive Coupe Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	I agree, no noticeable increase in vibration or harshness, just a more solid feeling rear axle. Especially noticeable when hitting mid corner bumps where it doesn't feel like the body is stepping sideways over the suspension anymore. Only downside is the cost and PITA install. __________________ '10 335xi, VTT stage 2, wagner I/C, ER oil cooler, PTF tuned, M3 rear arms & bushings, ecs trailing arms, ST S3 coilovers, Corsa exhaust
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04-23-2015, 11:11 AM	#4
andrey_gta Brigadier General 298 Rep 4,040 Posts Drives: 130i coupé ;) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bimmerpost iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 128i [10.00]	From what I read across all e8x e9x and M If you have a a Diff lock down kit OR very stiff Diff bushes, then the wrong choice of Subframe Bushes will add to NVH noises etc. If you dont plan to run stiff Diff bushes you can get Alu/Derlin Subframe bushes with out any extra downsides, NVH will not be much of an issue __________________ 128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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04-23-2015, 05:56 PM	#5
cpie168 Major 173 Rep 1,117 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 328i 6MT ZSP BSM Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: K/W and GTA, Ontario, Canada iTrader: (1)	How do bushing inserts compare to M3 bushings performance wise?
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04-24-2015, 07:22 AM	#7
mmmnot Custom User Title 412 Rep 1,337 Posts Drives: E92 328i Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Hotlanta iTrader: (2)	Only downside I figured was that they were not solid like Turners __________________ My "build" thread
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04-24-2015, 08:35 AM	#8
nitehawk Lieutenant Colonel 102 Rep 1,903 Posts Drives: e92 335i 6MT Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toronto iTrader: (15) Garage List E92 BMW 335i [9.00] E92 BMW 335i \| Retired [10.00]	No downsides, just do it!
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04-24-2015, 09:34 AM	#9
Ml3456 Second Lieutenant 14 Rep 261 Posts Drives: 2013 X3 & 335i E93 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Chicago West Burbs iTrader: (0)	You can do the mod itself with great results. Don't need new arms up front or anything else.
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04-24-2015, 11:08 AM	#11
cpie168 Major 173 Rep 1,117 Posts Drives: 2010 E90 328i 6MT ZSP BSM Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: K/W and GTA, Ontario, Canada iTrader: (1)	What are Turners?
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04-24-2015, 03:08 PM	#17
Fundguy1 Major General 2032 Rep 8,339 Posts Drives: 335 e93 Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Orlando, fl iTrader: (0)	For me the downside was they were too soft. I didn't want to go all the way to solid and subject my butt to feeling paint on the street, but I wanted more stiff to kill wheel hop. So I'm going to AKE black. Powerflex Black would be similar. Stiff as heck but still a lil give to kill NVH. Best of both worlds as far as I can see. __________________ '08 e93 AW 335i 6MT,Vargas Stg 2+ 20T clipped,VRSF catless dps & 7"FMIC,ER chargepipe&Tial, MMP inlets&outlets,Motiv Stg 2 fuel rail&dual disc clutch/fly, JB4G5,MHD w/Motiv tune,Fuel-it Stg 3 LPFP,Wavetrac LSD w/lockdown, KwV2,M3(Strut brace,frt control arms,steering wheel)AKE blk sub bush,re11 245/305,19x8.5et30&19x11et43,SmartTop,RE trans mounts,Msport rear bump & skirts,15%tint,ZSP knob,Stoptech rotors,241k miles
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04-24-2015, 07:16 PM	#22
John_01 Colonel 232 Rep 2,643 Posts Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0)	There is a slight difference when you first install them. They are rubber and take time to soften and break in. I experienced this in a E90 with M-sport suspension and no other mods, running on conventional tires. The M3 bushings will soften gradually over about 1,500 miles or so. Don't let that that make you worry. Its probably the best single mod you can do to the car.
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