[W37V]

Originally Posted by Phyrexia

I was trying to find a graceful way to phrase this but couldn't.

Is an exhaust cam going to be a worthwhile mod if we're running the stock exhaust manifold? Seems like the big V8 guys do it.

I don't see the reason as to why not. You might not have the most possible gains, but you should have gains nonetheless. It should be the same as with MILVS. You get most out of them with headers, but you still get shitload of power with them even without headers.

[desertman123]

Would you consider a camshaft "bolt-on"?

I'd argue that and MILVS are beyond that now. Although I know this is just semantics.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Would you consider a camshaft "bolt-on"?

I'd argue that and MILVS are beyond that now. Although I know this is just semantics.

Considering what it needs to be done, I wouldn't consider cams to be a simple bolt on.
Special tool: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/5CeOV5x

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/48rUbI5

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/EajWGlu

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/3zTosAV

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/EaykndB

[breakingpoint]

Originally Posted by W37V

Considering what it needs to be done, I wouldn't consider cams to be a simple bolt on.
Special tool: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/5CeOV5x

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/48rUbI5

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/EajWGlu

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/3zTosAV

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...mshaft/EaykndB

all I see is "special tool this, special tool that"... doesn't seem very straightforward to me...

[W37V]

Originally Posted by breakingpoint

all I see is "special tool this, special tool that"... doesn't seem very straightforward to me...

its this thing:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...0aAnA3EALw_wcB

you can get them off ebay for about $80

https://www.ebay.com/p/8milelake-BMW...0878023&chn=ps

[breakingpoint]

Originally Posted by W37V

its this thing:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...0aAnA3EALw_wcB

you can get them off ebay for about $80

https://www.ebay.com/p/8milelake-BMW...0878023&chn=ps

Oh, just a timing tool, that's okay.
Still wouldn't consider it a bolt-on .
I just checked marty's website, it is NICE.
Still no news on the camshaft though, "coming soon".
I just bought a set of MILVs and i'm kind of waiting it out, see what he comes up with, might combine the install once i'm under that valve cover.

[gT-BMW]

camshafts dont make power in fact you can lose power. all it does is increase lift and duration. a very good customize tune from the increase lift and duration will make the power. doesnt matter if you have stock exhaust or not but you will obviously make more power from a free flowing exhaust. not all tunes are the same. but we are subject to that. and its expensive. only a custom tune can maximize hp. this is the only reason why i didnt get milv. if i did then my only choice is only get an off the shelf tune. what would i get 5-10whp? you cant even feel that and if you do its very expensive to go .02 faster in the quarter mile. in drag racing you can shave .02 or more by changing launch techniques, tires, suspension etc. i want a tune customize for my setup and unfortunately there isnt any tuners here capable of that here in orlando fl. or anywhere except bpc.

if someone can release a user friendly tuning software for the n52 that would be the biggest game changer than a camshaft. obviously after that a custom camshaft would be very desirable.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by gT-BMW

camshafts dont make power in fact you can lose power. all it does is increase lift and duration. a very good customize tune from the increase lift and duration will make the power. doesnt matter if you have stock exhaust or not but you will obviously make more power from a free flowing exhaust. not all tunes are the same. but we are subject to that. and its expensive. only a custom tune can maximize hp. this is the only reason why i didnt get milv. if i did then my only choice is only get an off the shelf tune. what would i get 5-10whp? you cant even feel that and if you do its very expensive to go .02 faster in the quarter mile. i want a tune customize for my setup and unforgettably there isnt any tuners here capable of that here in orlando fl. or anywhere except bpc.

if someone can release a user friendly tuning software for the n52 that would be the biggest game changer than a camshaft. obviously after that a custom camshaft would be very desirable.

A lot of this is wrong, and You could just request a remote dyno tune.

[gT-BMW]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

A lot of this is wrong, and You could just request a remote dyno tune.

what exactly am i wrong about? a remote dyno tune is good for fine tuning afr.. but how is the tuner able to hear pinging or detonation? how is the tuner able to troubleshoot if there is a problem on the dyno if he isnt there? some cars produce different voltage for fuel injectors to dial in the proper a/f.

nothing beats a custom tune from a live tuner.

heres a point. go ahead and spend $10k+ on an engine build. see if you trust a remote tuner or a live local tuner with postive feedback.

[desertman123]

The DMEs are a lot more complex than you think. They're target-based, meaning you set a target AFR and the DME will adjust timing and fuel to reach that. All Hassmachine wanted me to do when I installed my custom tune is monitor long-term fuel trims.

The DME isn't just an assortment of maps too (although there are plenty lol). They use a model of the motor to ""simulate"" what's actually happening, and make calculations off that. Like the gas pedal doesn't directly affect valve lift, it tosses your commanded throttle value into the model and adjusts values accordingly, based on load, temps, etc. When you add MILVS and headers most of what you're tuning is the part of the model for that piece- so now the DME knows the intake valve lift will be +10% (not the exact value) over original. In my tune we (Hass did, I sat patiently) looked at the variances between the O2 sensor feedback model from the S54 euro and USDM DMEs (because EU/US uses different style headers) and interpolated the values to work on N52.

MSV70 and 80 don't necessarily need a MAF to operate too. They use a closed O2 sensor feedback loop.

I paraphrased this and probably something's wrong, but that's the gist.

[gT-BMW]

Originally Posted by desertman123

The DMEs are a lot more complex than you think. They're target-based, meaning you set a target AFR and the DME will adjust timing and fuel to reach that. All Hassmachine wanted me to do when I installed my custom tune is monitor long-term fuel trims.

The DME isn't just an assortment of maps too (although there are plenty lol). They use a model of the motor to ""simulate"" what's actually happening, and make calculations off that. Like the gas pedal doesn't directly affect valve lift, it tosses your commanded throttle value into the model and adjusts values accordingly, based on load, temps, etc. When you add MILVS and headers most of what you're tuning is the part of the model for that piece- so now the DME knows the intake valve lift will be +10% (not the exact value) over original. In my tune we (Hass did, I sat patiently) looked at the variances between the O2 sensor feedback model from the S54 euro and USDM DMEs and interpolated the values to work on N52.



MSV70 and 80 don't necessarily need a MAF to operate too. They use a closed O2 sensor feedback loop.

I paraphrased this and probably something's wrong, but that's the gist.

ok. custom tune stuff. im on a stock 330i bimmerlabs tune. i got 156k miles on my engine. burning oil in 2 cylinders. 3400lb 325i 4dr fully loaded. i think you have a 1 series very light. when do you want to race? we are local to orlando speedway

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by gT-BMW

ok. custom tune stuff. im on a stock 330i bimmerlabs tune. i got 156k miles on my engine. burning oil in 2 cylinders. 3400lb 325i 4dr fully loaded. i think you have a 1 series very light. when do you want to race? we are local to orlando speedway

Let's see when OSW is doing test&tune

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by gT-BMW

ok. custom tune stuff. im on a stock 330i bimmerlabs tune. i got 156k miles on my engine. burning oil in 2 cylinders. 3400lb 325i 4dr fully loaded. i think you have a 1 series very light. when do you want to race? we are local to orlando speedway

You're going to lose, but it will be fun. You'll mostly loose because he's FBO and you're about a stock 330i equivalent at this point.

[gT-BMW]

Originally Posted by desertman123

Let's see when OSW is doing test&tune

actually i think drag racing our cars is a bad idea even though it will be alot of fun!! its been about over a year ago since i last took my bmw to the track. when i first got the car and did the mods to it, it didnt take me long to realize 3 series n/a bmw are terrible cars for drag racing. im down for back road slaying though!

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

You're going to lose, but it will be fun. You'll mostly loose because he's FBO and you're about a stock 330i equivalent at this point.

I never said i was going to win either but im glad that you said that. im trying to saying driving technique is important for drag racing and your saying its mostly bs. im sure my car puts out less hp than a stock 330i cause im burning oil in 2 out of the 6 cylinders and im still on stock exhaust and intake. but i still ran 14.3@ 97 mph in it. As far as i can tell, most of us with these mods are trapping 97mph. some of yall have more, like intake and exhaust, AA tunes etc. But the mph says we can do 14.0 if we can bring down the 60ft to atleast a 1.7, but my car just cant do it without making some changes like changing out rear subframe and differential bushings to poly bushings. I almost broke my car just trying to get a 1.9 60ft out of it. theres a fine line bogging at launch or launching to hard and getting tons of wheel hop. I wish i gotten wheel spin instead. For us n/a guys we have to launch high and hard off the line to bring down the 60ft. Turbo bmws are better at drag racing they seem to pull off insane 60fts at low rpms without even trying.

back to what i was saying if we had a user friendly tunable ecu it would really help out us n52 actually i think it would totally transform this community. whats the point of having cams if you dont have anything to tune it out with?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by gT-BMW

actually i think drag racing our cars is a bad idea even though it will be alot of fun!! its been about over a year ago since i last took my bmw to the track. when i first got the car and did the mods to it, it didnt take me long to realize 3 series n/a bmw are terrible cars for drag racing. im down for back road slaying though!



I never said i was going to win either but im glad that you said that. im trying to saying driving technique is important for drag racing and your saying its mostly bs. im sure my car puts out less hp than a stock 330i cause im burning oil in 2 out of the 6 cylinders and im still on stock exhaust and intake. but i still ran 14.3@ 97 mph in it. As far as i can tell, most of us with these mods are trapping 97mph. some of yall have more, like intake and exhaust, AA tunes etc. But the mph says we can do 14.0 if we can bring down the 60ft to atleast a 1.7, but my car just cant do it without making some changes like changing out rear subframe and differential bushings to poly bushings. I almost broke my car just trying to get a 1.9 60ft out of it. theres a fine line bogging at launch or launching to hard and getting tons of wheel hop. I wish i gotten wheel spin instead. For us n/a guys we have to launch high and hard off the line to bring down the 60ft. Turbo bmws are better at drag racing they seem to pull off insane 60fts at low rpms without even trying.

back to what i was saying if we had a user friendly tunable ecu it would really help out us n52 actually i think it would totally transform this community. whats the point of having cams if you dont have anything to tune it out with?

That's why I told you a dyno tune would be the best option. Tuning isn't rocket science, but I don't think most people grasp what needs to be done to properly tune the car. There was the OFT which was supposed to be open source, and despite the fact that it wasn't that good - it still never caught on.
97MPH is very good though, I was at 99 and towards the end, I think I could have had over 100mph.

[BrianML]

Good stuff here. Good to see Pete’s stock cams still floating around. Anyone know where the spare head went? And I wonder what cams are in the car now? I know that the MILVS went in just before Pete passed.

As discussed in the Headers/ Mounts thread, I do plan to get the car spun on the dyno sooner than later.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by BrianML

Good stuff here. Good to see Pete’s stock cams still floating around. Anyone know where the spare head went? And I wonder what cams are in the car now? I know that the MILVS went in just before Pete passed.

As discussed in the Headers/ Mounts thread, I do plan to get the car spun on the dyno sooner than later.

-If I remember correctly, a spare head went to FL for flow testing.
-Stock cams are floating around to be reground
-The cams in the car should be stock.

[hassmaschine]

The spare head is at my friend's shop in Florida. Pete was bankrolling it so I think it's just sitting there now. I know he still wants to flowbench it but he has to build a new jig because the N5x engines have a different bolt pattern than the past M5x engines.

I'll bug him about it again.

[BrianML]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

The spare head is at my friend's shop in Florida. Pete was bankrolling it so I think it's just sitting there now. I know he still wants to flowbench it but he has to build a new jig because the N5x engines have a different bolt pattern than the past M5x engines.

I'll bug him about it again.

Let’s chat about this thing. STU rules allow milling of the head, port and polish of intake and exhaust ports, and valve seat milling. I’d definitely like to go down the path of seeing what we could do with a good head on the car.

[breakingpoint]

Originally Posted by BrianML

Let’s chat about this thing. STU rules allow milling of the head, port and polish of intake and exhaust ports, and valve seat milling. I’d definitely like to go down the path of seeing what we could do with a good head on the car.

I think you'd be surprised how good the head is already.
It's a European high power NA engine. We don't use displacement to make up for pushrod layouts
Anyway, it could always be finetuned, but the gains wouldn't be worth the money. But that's just an opinion. Please go ahead and be a guinea pig. I'm not here to discourage, just inform.

You could read more in the archives:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...=245575&page=1

Extracted the jist of it:

I spoke with Steve over at VAC on friday. He said the heads come P&P'ed from the factory and to do anymore P&P'ing would render them inop. He told me Schrick is about to release cams for the 330i. He figured anywhere from 800-1200 on pricing. As far as power goes he wouldnt speculate. I asked if 20hp would be to much to expect and he replied that sounded reasonable. He mentioned that ECU tuning should be done with the new Schricks. He said they offered custom ECU tuning for customers with racing 330s. I hope something can be done. My car is pretty gutless.

[BrianML]

Originally Posted by breakingpoint

I think you'd be surprised how good the head is already.
It's a European high power NA engine. We don't use displacement to make up for pushrod layouts
Anyway, it could always be finetuned, but the gains wouldn't be worth the money. But that's just an opinion. Please go ahead and be a guinea pig. I'm not here to discourage, just inform.

You could read more in the archives:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...=245575&page=1

Extracted the jist of it:

I spoke with Steve over at VAC on friday. He said the heads come P&P'ed from the factory and to do anymore P&P'ing would render them inop. He told me Schrick is about to release cams for the 330i. He figured anywhere from 800-1200 on pricing. As far as power goes he wouldnt speculate. I asked if 20hp would be to much to expect and he replied that sounded reasonable. He mentioned that ECU tuning should be done with the new Schricks. He said they offered custom ECU tuning for customers with racing 330s. I hope something can be done. My car is pretty gutless.

Good to know. This is showing my age, but found a bit of power in Showroom Stock/ Motorola Cup Z3’s and E36 M3 (prior to the swap to the euro engine) by doing some work on the valve seats and back cutting the valves slightly. Same with taking about .004 off the bottom of the head. Not a lot, but it was worth the effort.

I spoke to the SCCA yesterday and our target weight for the E90 with a single throttle body and no-ABS is 2911 w/ driver. The last time that Pete was in the car, it was about 2960. I’d venture to say that I’m about 50lbs lighter than Pete. Knowing what some of the front runners in STU are making for power along with the development of their suspension and aero, we need all the help (and voodoo magic) we can conjure up for the 328. If there is 2-3 HP to be found at this stage, it’s probably worth exploring it. Especially if we can find that power in the right places. I don’t expect to have a Runoffs winning car here and I don’t want to cut the thing to bits and ruin how properly the build has been done. But I also don’t want to spend thousands of dollars a weekend just trying to stay within eyesight of the B Spec cars (that’s a bit of a joke, but also true).

I don’t have the $$ sitting around to convert to a dog ring or sequential gear box, same with Motec and going to Bosch ABS. I know that those are all big hurdles to overcome and I’ll own that. For what it’s worth, proper Motorsport ABS vs no-ABS is only a 2% change in base weight (60ish lbs).

[hassmaschine]

I don't know about that. They aren't really "ported" - but the ports are CNC machined from the factory. The exhaust ports are rough cast. That thread is really old and full of wrong information anyway, I wouldn't base anything off it..

The whole point of flowbenching is to get a baseline and then see what areas could use improvement. If a "change" reduces flow, then you don't do it. There are some rather sharp edges on the stock N52 head, and while it is similar in design to the S54, the stock S54 head is way smoother inside.

Yeah, if you just take a die-grinder to the ports you're probably just going to screw them up. But that's not what this guy does.

I'd love to believe that Schrick is releasing a 330i N52 cam (what does that mean? N52? N53? N20B20?), but why would they now release a new cam for a car that was sold 13 years ago for only one year? There has been a listing for an N52 cam for years, but it's incorrect - they've only ever sold N54 cams.