[Ingeniator]

How are the nozzles located in the airstream. Is it perpendicular to the flow in the center of the air stream or is it higher up. The further out of center the later the meth hits. This being electronically controlled helps but having all ports consistent will lead to better distribution.

[Tzu]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

4X 1mm nozzles do not spray 1800cc. When i tested it i was seeing results of 12-1300c. The FAV is only capable of flowing 1500. 6x .5mm is actually only about 166cc away from 4x 1mm. Thats through real life testing not theoritical. Procede is logging about the same also.

Forgot the old FAV has a lower flow limitation. IIRC there is a newer PN that can flow more. I also have the DO head with the adjustable pressure screw, and I metered 650mL from two 1.0mm nozzles, then cranked the screw up and metered 800 mL. I'm sure it's not great for the pump though.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by Tzu

Forgot the old FAV has a lower flow limitation. IIRC there is a newer PN that can flow more. I also have the DO head with the adjustable pressure screw, and I metered 650mL from two 1.0mm nozzles, then cranked the screw up and metered 800 mL. I'm sure it's not great for the pump though.

I got 650ish out of 1x 1mm nozzle and 1000 out of 2 and about 1300 out of 4 obviously out of lower pressure. I like the smaller nozzles so that i can continue turning up the pressure to an ideal 175psi

[3000GT MR]

Update:
So I started turning up the flow and seeing what results from it. A few observations are
-I need to start injecting with a lower ramp up rate and start sooner. It spikes with the on set, seems like its due to air pockets from vacuum. I'll elaborate on this a little more
-Port injection requires a little more flow then the traditional duct injection. How much more? I'm not sure right now I'm guessing about 6-7% via procede flow %
-The car gets a little more punch and feels stronger (i'm even at lower boost than normal)
-So far IAT's haven't been effecting timing. Still peaked 12.5* over the 11.5-12* i use to see.
-AFR's are solid
-Trims are pretty even and have defiantly gained some head room
-VRSF innercooler is quite impressive
-It shoots some pretty cool flames (i can see the reflection I'll video it at a later time)


I know a lot of you have questions about siphoning meth during vacuum states. As i mentioned earlier there is a spike with the onset of flow. This is most likely due to air. I have done some hard decel's with engine braking to see what it would look like. The lines were still full with fluid with a few little air pockets. Today i put the car on map 1 (none meth) and drove thru traffic both ways to and from work. When i got home I was actually really surprised that the fluid was still in the lines with minimal air pockets. I really wanted to go with black lines but bought the clear ones for this reason. The flames, It's funny i noticed this but it reflected off the guardrail and caught my eye every time. This I'm not to worried about. The flow of meth doesnt get shut off by the throttle body valve anymore so a little sneaks in when the throttle closes.

Heres some logs of the progress. As you can see the IAT's aren't bad.

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

Update:
So I started turning up the flow and seeing what results from it. A few observations are
-I need to start injecting with a lower ramp up rate and start sooner. It spikes with the on set, seems like its due to air pockets from vacuum. I'll elaborate on this a little more
-Port injection requires a little more flow then the traditional duct injection. How much more? I'm not sure right now I'm guessing about 6-7% via procede flow %
-The car gets a little more punch and feels stronger (i'm even at lower boost than normal)
-So far IAT's haven't been effecting timing. Still peaked 12.5* over the 11.5-12* i use to see.
-AFR's are solid
-Trims are pretty even and have defiantly gained some head room
-VRSF innercooler is quite impressive
-It shoots some pretty cool flames (i can see the reflection I'll video it at a later time)


I know a lot of you have questions about siphoning meth during vacuum states. As i mentioned earlier there is a spike with the onset of flow. This is most likely due to air. I have done some hard decel's with engine braking to see what it would look like. The lines were still full with fluid with a few little air pockets. Today i put the car on map 1 (none meth) and drove thru traffic both ways to and from work. When i got home I was actually really surprised that the fluid was still in the lines with minimal air pockets. I really wanted to go with black lines but bought the clear ones for this reason. The flames, It's funny i noticed this but it reflected off the guardrail and caught my eye every time. This I'm not to worried about. The flow of meth doesnt get shut off by the throttle body valve anymore so a little sneaks in when the throttle closes.

Heres some logs of the progress. As you can see the IAT's aren't bad.

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

How are the nozzles located in the airstream. Is it perpendicular to the flow in the center of the air stream or is it higher up. The further out of center the later the meth hits. This being electronically controlled helps but having all ports consistent will lead to better distribution.

Any feedback on my previous comment?

[3000GT MR]

All the nozzles are perpendicular to airflow and centered in the runner. Everything from cylinder to cylinder is as accurate as i could get them by measuring

[Tzu]

I used to get the same spike when I relocated my nozzles to the IC without a check valve, it was about 2ft of 4mm and gravity would drain it after each pull. Sometimes the spike was so bad I triggered an overflow fault.

With your setup as is, there is little gravity acting on the supply lines, and maybe the smaller nozzles reduce the scavenging effect of the intake air. I'd use checkvalve nozzles anyway personally. The spike does a number to the pump and probably flow sensor due to hydro-shock.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by Tzu

I used to get the same spike when I relocated my nozzles to the IC without a check valve, it was about 2ft of 4mm and gravity would drain it after each pull. Sometimes the spike was so bad I triggered an overflow fault.

With your setup as is, there is little gravity acting on the supply lines, and maybe the smaller nozzles reduce the scavenging effect of the intake air. I'd use checkvalve nozzles anyway personally. The spike does a number to the pump and probably flow sensor due to hydro-shock.

At $60 a nozzle I'm not worried about it. I never really had a issue when mine were in the end tank. It's something i can tune out

[Ingeniator]

Originally Posted by 3000GT MR

All the nozzles are perpendicular to airflow and centered in the runner. Everything from cylinder to cylinder is as accurate as i could get them by measuring

Yeah but these are just traditional nozzles right they don't go to the center of the runner on the inside do they. As can be seen with power jets on carbs the further out of the center of the air stream the later it hits after trigger. This was one of the reasons I wanted to run a custom intake manifold with directional meth injection angled to the ports. If all runners are the same, like you said above you should be able to tune for it the way you have it setup. As for the spikes you could try one of these http://solenoids before your distribution block.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by Ingeniator

Yeah but these are just traditional nozzles right they don't go to the center of the runner on the inside do they. As can be seen with power jets on carbs the further out of the center of the air stream the later it hits after trigger. This was one of the reasons I wanted to run a custom intake manifold with directional meth injection angled to the ports. If all runners are the same, like you said above you should be able to tune for it the way you have it setup. As for the spikes you could try one of these http://solenoids before your distribution block.

I know there are a few set ups like that for the m3 and other N/A cars with bigger manifold. I'm nether here nor there with the idea, i think it's more trouble than what it's worth.

[techwhiz]

I would have used a rail with some different hose, probably braided, but that's just the engineer in me.

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

I would have used a rail with some different hose, probably braided, but that's just the engineer in me.

Why? They don't make braided lines for these types of injectors. What's so bad about Teflon lines vs rubber fuel lines on most conventional engines? Braided lines arent the answer to everything. I would prefer ridgid lines over flex any day but then again i can't

[lamia2super]

just wondering how this is going

[3000GT MR]

Originally Posted by lamia2super

just wondering how this is going

I got the 7th nozzle installed. I've started tuning from scratch but haven't gotten to far do to the cold and wet weather. As soon as the weather is better I'll be able to finish.

[FRMTL2_335i]

i had this idea last year before i bought my meth kit, thinking of the best location to place the nozzles. i spoke to terry and he mentioned the fact of atomized meth particles are more efficient than just dumping meth into the cylinders, since i am running full e85 one of the concerns was "volume" and the limited amount of air that can be forced into the cylinder. hence i decided to place two nozzles, ONE before the intercooler, and the other one right after the intercooler. This way the meth being injected has a lot more time to mix/atomized from the time it is injected to the time it reaches the cylinders. and i believe it is way safer than running port-injection.
i also love my setup, it is stealth, no one knows im running meth.

[lamia2super]

Originally Posted by FRMTL2_335i

i had this idea last year before i bought my meth kit, thinking of the best location to place the nozzles. i spoke to terry and he mentioned the fact of atomized meth particles are more efficient than just dumping meth into the cylinders, since i am running full e85 one of the concerns was "volume" and the limited amount of air that can be forced into the cylinder. hence i decided to place two nozzles, ONE before the intercooler, and the other one right after the intercooler. This way the meth being injected has a lot more time to mix/atomized from the time it is injected to the time it reaches the cylinders. and i believe it is way safer than running port-injection.
i also love my setup, it is stealth, no one knows im running meth.

ran that setup years ago when i had asr stage 1s and honestly i didn't really see much difference spraying before the intercooler.

[FRMTL2_335i]

Originally Posted by lamia2super

ran that setup years ago when i had asr stage 1s and honestly i didn't really see much difference spraying before the intercooler.

i felt a nice difference with my stock turbos.... i wonder how good this setup is gonna be with the RBs once i install them.

[lamia2super]

Originally Posted by FRMTL2_335i

i felt a nice difference with my stock turbos.... i wonder how good this setup is gonna be with the RBs once i install them.

small difference for me and the only big difference was the rate i would go threw methanol, which led me to running a bigger meth tank. upgrade your jetting when you do it. i believe i had either a m2 or m5 before the intercooler and a m10 in the charge pipe.

[3000GT MR]

Running pre & post ic will net cooler iat where as direct port will net a higher effective octane. The 7th nozzle will help cool the iat.

[3000GT MR]

Your better off running pre/post ic if your running e85. You don't really need the extra octane.

[135Pats]

Hm. I should give more thought to adding another AM jet at intercooler outlet. I’m sure it atomizes so much better, and as matters currently stand meth didn’t do a whole lot for me spraying via the chargepipe. Controlled IATs well but in MD that’s not a huge problem, and the octane was already overkill with E60. Now I’m just looking for excuses to spray again lol….

Any of you guys have thoughts on exact location for ideal atomization? Routing it to the hot side front mount inlet sounds nice, but I don’t like the idea of meth anywhere near the hot side of the car. I know I’m just being paranoid there.

[FRMTL2_335i]

Originally Posted by lamia2super

small difference for me and the only big difference was the rate i would go threw methanol, which led me to running a bigger meth tank. upgrade your jetting when you do it. i believe i had either a m2 or m5 before the intercooler and a m10 in the charge pipe.

im running two m10 nozzles, and i go through meth a lot quicker