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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > 335D the famous "no boost untill 3000rpm" problem



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      08-13-2018, 03:31 AM   #23
MooLard
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Oh dear, really feel for you mate, I have had 2 months of consecutive issues with my 335d, the latest seems to be a leaking intercooler discovered by cleaning oil from the undertray and engine then checking a week later to see the plastic to metal join on the intercooler to be very oily, but both boost pipes were clean and dry.
I have a new intercooler en-route to see if this fixes it.
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      08-15-2018, 04:27 AM   #24
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Sitrep. The car has improved quite a bit now...I assume the DME re-learned the new parameters after the intercooler got replaced. It pulls now from around 2000 rpm strong.

There is still something though. I don't quite feel it pulling 100% of its capacity from low down. It should pull like hell and brake your neck from 1500 rpm.

Tomorrow I'm gonna take appart eveything accesible from the top of the engine compartiment (intake manifold, vacuum lines, measure the resistance on the pressure converters...). I'll even try to delete the vacuum line that goes to the engine mounts.

I'll reply back after inspection.
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      08-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #25
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Just came across with a stupid crumbled vaccum hose. The one that goes from the T splitter to the electric valve that actuates the compressor bypass valve. The valve was so hard to reach I had to unplug the vacuum hoses to get it out of there. It was just hanging beeing stuck in the electric conector.

Long story short that little hose was basically plastic and started to get rotten. It was also broken at the electric valve end. Tried to unplug it back but there was no chance. I tried shorten it 5 times but it broke each and every time i tried to plug it back.

Tomorrow I'm gonna get it replaced.

Can anyone please tell me where to plug that vacuum hose (the one that goes from the T splitter to the electric valve). I honestly lost track of where that hose inserts.
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      08-18-2018, 04:31 AM   #26
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Replaced that hose and is better now. Not 100% better though.

I also measured the resistance on the pressure converters and electric valve and got these results :
- Turbine control valve 110 Ohm
- Wastegate 15,4 Ohm
- Compressor bypass 33 Ohm

Is the pressure converter that controls the turbine changeover valve ok? I'm 100% sure it reads 110 Ohm, I measured it like 6 or 7 times. I thought it is supposed to be between 11 and 16 Ohm.

Anyways I'm now pretty confident is just a vacuum hose or pressure converter issue.
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      08-18-2018, 11:52 PM   #27
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Electric Switchover Valve should be at 30-31ohm
Pressure Converter should be at 14.5ohm.
However they rarely fail electrically. It’s the sealing of vacuum you need to test.
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      08-19-2018, 04:08 AM   #28
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So far i have changed all the usual suspects on the car.
Maf
Map
Actuators
Vaccum lines

The last item was the vaccum pump. After the vaccum pump was changed it started another problem with the brake pedal beeing stiff at start up.

My problem with the small turbo remains.

Light to middle throttle the car moves sufficiently
Full throttle under 2.5k rpm and the car is choking untill it reaches 2.5k. Then it goes ballistic.

It holds boost and vaccum when working. When you turn of the car the vaccum goes to 0 immidiately.

Boost until 2.5k rpm is arround 0.8-1.2 bar and at 2.5k rpm goes to 2.3-2.4 bar

My mechanic now says it must be the small turbo itself....
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      08-19-2018, 11:07 PM   #29
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When you turn off the car the turbo switchover pressure converter is still energized and will keep vacuum at least on that side. Vacuum in the system should drop on shutdown. But your brake pedal should not be very stiff on start as there is vacuum in the master cylinder and a check valve holds it it’s common for those to fail.
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      08-20-2018, 09:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick///M3 View Post
So far i have changed all the usual suspects on the car.
Maf
Map
Actuators
Vaccum lines

The last item was the vaccum pump. After the vaccum pump was changed it started another problem with the brake pedal beeing stiff at start up.

My problem with the small turbo remains.

Light to middle throttle the car moves sufficiently
Full throttle under 2.5k rpm and the car is choking untill it reaches 2.5k. Then it goes ballistic.

It holds boost and vaccum when working. When you turn of the car the vaccum goes to 0 immidiately.

Boost until 2.5k rpm is arround 0.8-1.2 bar and at 2.5k rpm goes to 2.3-2.4 bar

My mechanic now says it must be the small turbo itself....

i wouldn't bet on small turbo. I had the same issue in low range about 3 times (now I have low boost throughout whole rev range). it can be a little hole in one of the hoses within vacuum and boost system. or red charger pipe can be lose, or aluminium pipe from intercooler on the other side can be cracked or some rubbery ends on it could be split, or even intercooler itself can leak boost. it can also be some of the connections or lose clamps.
also did you change EGR solenoid under the intake manifold? many times it is forgotten and mechanic swore at me that if it is bad it would throw a code, and when I changed it, it regained power.
or even mistake in hose connection from that EGR solenoid because realoeam drawing has it the other way around resulting in the same symptoms....basically, the whole vacuum and boost system is under suspicion for leaks....and all the things I said, I had actually, so talking from experience.
i would bet that small turbo is the last thing that's wrong...but of course it could be.
and it's easiest for mechanics to say it's turbo, because easy money...

Last edited by bmwdiesel; 08-20-2018 at 09:24 AM..
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      08-20-2018, 09:51 AM   #31
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The best way to find a non-obvious boost leak is to pressurize the system. I use an adapter made of a few pieces of brass and fittings connected to a regulated 30psi on one side then plugged to the intake at my W/M switch distribution point. I's pretty easy to find that leak - just listen for the hissing noise.

The Boost Test Adapter has a shutoff valve and a regulator valve of it's own to allow slowly raising the pressure for setting pump and solenoid turn-on pressures.
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      08-20-2018, 10:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
The best way to find a non-obvious boost leak is to pressurize the system. I use an adapter made of a few pieces of brass and fittings connected to a regulated 30psi on one side then plugged to the intake at my W/M switch distribution point. I's pretty easy to find that leak - just listen for the hissing noise.

The Boost Test Adapter has a shutoff valve and a regulator valve of it's own to allow slowly raising the pressure for setting pump and solenoid turn-on pressures.
any chance u make a video or at least show on pic how and where u pressurize it and where you measure it?

what is intake at my W/M switch distribution point
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      08-20-2018, 10:35 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdiesel View Post
what is intake at my W/M switch distribution point
This is where I plug in to pressurize. It's just a manifold leading from the intake tap to 2 switches and a boost gauge on the dash - where I read it. This is all custom stuff. I can only tell you what to do, not how to do it.
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      08-20-2018, 02:22 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
This is where I plug in to pressurize. It's just a manifold leading from the intake tap to 2 switches and a boost gauge on the dash - where I read it. This is all custom stuff. I can only tell you what to do, not how to do it.
i dont think i have the same vacuum hoses as you....where is it on realOEAM? i never seen those connections there
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      08-22-2018, 11:51 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdiesel View Post
i never seen those connections there
^^ That's because: vv
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
This is all custom stuff.
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      08-23-2018, 10:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadir Point View Post
^^ That's because: vv
why
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      08-23-2018, 11:30 AM   #37
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Nadir Point is refering to finding a boost leak in your intake tract, you can pressurize it trough a meth port if you have one to find a boost leak.

OP is talking about finding leaks in vacuum system. you wan to use a vacuum pump for that.

another idea is have you reset maf adaptations?
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      08-24-2018, 02:15 AM   #38
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Yozh...what type of "check valve" is located in the brake booster that fails to keep vacuum inside the system.

The only two parts that I'm aware are just gaskets (rubber gaskets).

One is this one ( 34311160617 ), it seals the master cylinder going inside the brake booster.

The second one ( 34336765316 ), is seals the vacuum pipe going inside the brake booster.

Am I missing something or am I mistaken?
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      08-25-2018, 12:59 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladPC View Post
Yozh...what type of "check valve" is located in the brake booster that fails to keep vacuum inside the system.

The only two parts that I'm aware are just gaskets (rubber gaskets).

One is this one ( 34311160617 ), it seals the master cylinder going inside the brake booster.

The second one ( 34336765316 ), is seals the vacuum pipe going inside the brake booster.

Am I missing something or am I mistaken?
Pipe 11 has a check valve in it:
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Last edited by Yozh; 08-25-2018 at 01:06 AM..
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      08-31-2018, 07:17 AM   #40
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Went for a drive last night and it threw me two codes, the same codes that threw some time ago.
Check engine light went on.
I was at full throttle 3rd or 4th, over 3000 rpm.

4530 - charge air pressure too low
4560 - rail pressure-plausibility too low

Besides these two, the permanent O2 sensor fault 447B, showing not enough air, oxygen concentration too low.

I'm really starting to feel the pain of not living in the US...I would just talk to AA Rodriguez or JR Auto and they would have this fixed in a second.
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      09-01-2018, 02:03 AM   #41
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What’s up with your O2 Sensor? New ones are not that much. Just get a Bosch part. Replacement is about an hour tops. Start there. Then 4530 is a broad code. But usually it’s boost leaks or the vacuum control system. Also easy fixes. Make sure no exhaust leaks pre sensor and sensor good with its feed tube. MAF and MAP healthy and you are good to go.
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      10-03-2018, 06:29 AM   #42
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Didn't update the topic because I was bussy...

I have changed the old vacuum lines with 3.5mm silicone ones, except the line that goes from the pressure converter to the wastegate...still the same problem

By the end of the week I will hopefully try a new pressure converter for the turbine changeover valve...maby things will change.

Yesterday I drove the car with ISTA running.
Monitoring the charge air pressure values I noticed this.

4th gear from 1000 rpm to 5000.

Desired boost is 3000mbar at about 1100 rpm. The car only makes about 1100mbar at that rpm. As soon as it reaches 2000rpm actual boost pressure is at about 2000mbar.

Anywhere above 2200rpm, actual boost level is 3000mbar.

If it's not the pressure converter, honestly I don't know what to do anymore...everything is checked...vacuum hoses, vacuum actuators do not stick and they hold vacuum.
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      10-06-2018, 09:42 AM   #43
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Just installed new pressure converters and nothing changed. It's just like before. Thank God I did not buy them...the shop agreed to let me test them and I brought them back.

Tested absolutely EVERYTHING with the hand vacuum pump. It has over 25inHG of vacuum. Actuators hold vacuum. Electric valve holds vacuum. Vacuum canister holds vacuum. Even soaked the MAP sensor with brake disc cleaner just to clean it. No boost untill 2200-2300rpm. Anywhere above that goes to 3000mbar of boost.

I think I'm just going to leave it like this...I'm pretty dissapointed to be honest...I could have bought a 330d e92 instead of this, the 330d has variable geometry single turbo and it could be tuned to make boost sooner than 2000rpm. All I wanted was to have instant boost from 1500 rpm like any other 335d.
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      10-06-2018, 11:57 PM   #44
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Please run a gauge to see vacuum in driving situation. Tee it off the output of the turbo switchover pressure converter and run a line with a gauge to the cabin. See what happens as you drive.
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