[Dynamics99]

Waiting on piston ring squaring tool to come in to measure gaps. Will be doing crankshaft bearing clearance tomorrow. Dont mind the squirters. Will have them aligned. Waiting for one squirter come in the mail.

[Dynamics99]

Quick question. Can I reuse the steel m10x100 bolts after checking the main bearing clearance that holds down the bedplate or replace them? The torque is 20nm + 70 degrees rotation.

[Dynamics99]

Update: Checked main bearing clearance using plastigauge. Came back to 0.038mm.

Torqued down all the oil squirters. Next up is piston rings.

[Dynamics99]

So on the option of using Loctite SI 5970 for bedplate sealing but I have a brand new tube of Hondabond HT laying around. I have heard really good things about the Hondabond. What's the consensus?

[yupetc]

Originally Posted by Dynamics99

Quick question. Can I reuse the steel m10x100 bolts after checking the main bearing clearance that holds down the bedplate or replace them? The torque is 20nm + 70 degrees rotation.

You would have to replace the bedplate bolts for sure. Those are TTY, don't skimp on these.

I've never had any experience with Hondabond products, hopefully others can attest or petition against it with good reasoning. If it were me, I'd still stick with the loctite 5970 or SI version. Just because it's the closest to OEM recommended item to use.

[yupetc]

By the way, great job documenting your gaps. Do keep that booklet stowed properly because later on down the road if in doubt, you'd still get to come back to the numbers and it'll tremendously help with your diagnosis, just in case.

Also, looking at your main bearing gaps, did you miss out a zero on 6 and 7? And judging from the gap sizes you end up with, you'll likely be using oil vis between 30 and 40 on the hot since you've landed on the taller gap from the 0.02-0.046 range, you'll need oil vis to help with that film integrity and stay time to get the assurance. If by some reason you end up on the 0.02mm range of gap, then you can seek to use 20 vis oil for under 75k miles or so. Just something I pull from experience and wisdom acquired from the good old engine builder boys I used to know.

[Dynamics99]

Originally Posted by yupetc

By the way, great job documenting your gaps. Do keep that booklet stowed properly because later on down the road if in doubt, you'd still get to come back to the numbers and it'll tremendously help with your diagnosis, just in case.

Also, looking at your main bearing gaps, did you miss out a zero on 6 and 7? And judging from the gap sizes you end up with, you'll likely be using oil vis between 30 and 40 on the hot since you've landed on the taller gap from the 0.02-0.046 range, you'll need oil vis to help with that film integrity and stay time to get the assurance. If by some reason you end up on the 0.02mm range of gap, then you can seek to use 20 vis oil for under 75k miles or so. Just something I pull from experience and wisdom acquired from the good old engine builder boys I used to know.

I did miss a 0 on 6 and 7. Fixed it LOL. Will be using Loctite SI 5970.

[Dynamics99]

So I got the FCPEuro Audi Variant of 5970 and this is what I got lol. IDK what it is. Online when I put in D176501A1 it shows images of Loctite SI 5970. I also have the Hondabond HT lol. Should I contact FCP to double-check? In a dilemma lol on what to use.



I also checked the ring gaps for Cylinder one using a ring squaring tool made for an 84mm bore. Which is in spec. My feeler gauge has 0.02mm increments till it hits 0.50mm and then it goes by 0.05mm. Should I get a precise feeler gauge each for the top ring and middle ring or use the current one?

How would you measure the oil scraper ring? It's so delicate and I feel like I'm getting inaccurate readings from 0.55-0.70mm.

[fastboatster]

don't worry about D176501A1, it's just a VW brand part number for this sealant, and they recommend using it for the same purposes. Most people use aftermarket sealants instead, reinzoseal is good because it has a nice temp stability and can be found in autoparts stores. downside is it's very hard to remove and clean up after it has cured.

[Dynamics99]

Used Hondabond for bedplate sealant. Came out pretty nice. Torqued all the main bearing bolts and bedplate bolts.

Now for the pistons, I'm cleaning the carbon off them using Berryman Chem Dip which is doing good so far. After cleaning piston 1 which had the bent rod and broken lower cap I tried to check if the wrist pin slides in and out easily.

The wrist pin will only slide in on the side. I tried the other side and it will go in like 2-3mm and get stuck. I ended up checking the #1 wrist pin into #2 and it went in smoothly with no issues. Should I order a replacement piston or use an emery cloth to sand it down a bit? It's like binding up on the one side.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J59...ew?usp=sharing

Here is a video I took.

Here is an image also:

[yupetc]

Based on your description, that #1 piston can be slightly deformed in geometry. For safety sakes, I'd go for a replacement. Back in my limited monetary days, I've torched the tight end and if the wrist pin passes, that's good enough as a litmus test. But by today's BMW standards, I wouldn't risk it. And if you're going to source it from used parts on eBay or car-parts.com, buy two pistons just in case, they aren't that expensive, and the pistons I would do another piston to wall clearance verification and pick the best fitting one to use. Other pistons you get will have their own break-in and usage wear pattern, so the more pistons you get the better chance you get at closing the clearance gaps. If you get one piston, then you're rolling the dice with it is what I"m saying.

The above advice is given in an "if it's up to me" scenario. You're free to roam the realm of probabilities, but consider you've gone this far already, before you realize it, you're piecing together quite many pieces and each overage/under gap you fit and match the engine internals, it'll lead to a result which will be based on the sum of all of these parts. So be careful and be choosy, is what I'm saying. Not that easy to go back and tear the engine down again.

[Dynamics99]

Originally Posted by yupetc

Based on your description, that #1 piston can be slightly deformed in geometry. For safety's sake, I'd go for a replacement. Back in my limited monetary days, I've torched the tight end and if the wrist pin passes, that's good enough as a litmus test. But by today's BMW standards, I wouldn't risk it. And if you're going to source it from used parts on eBay or car-parts.com, buy two pistons just in case, they aren't that expensive, and the pistons I would do another piston-to-wall clearance verification and pick the best-fitting one to use. Other pistons you get will have their own break-in and usage wear pattern, so the more pistons you get the better chance you get at closing the clearance gaps. If you get one piston, then you're rolling the dice with it is what I"'m saying.

The above advice is given in an "if it's up to me" scenario. You're free to roam the realm of probabilities, but consider you've gone this far already, before you realize it, you're piecing together quite many pieces, and each overage/under gap you fit and match the engine internals, it'll lead to a result which will be based on the sum of all of these parts. So be careful and be choosy, is what I'm saying. Not that easy to go back and tear the engine down again.

I used an emery cloth for 1 minute where it seemed like that side of the piston had a bit of an edge sticking out. The wrist pin went in fine and does not bind up when I rotate it but you are correct about rolling the dice.

[Dynamics99]

An update. Checked the rod bearing clearance and it comes out to 0.038mm. The shop checked Piston 1 for wrist pin bore piston to-pin clearance and piston dimensions and it's good to go. Dropping in the rest of the pistons in this weekend and hopefully button up the motor on Sunday.

[yupetc]

Originally Posted by Dynamics99

An update. Checked the rod bearing clearance and it comes out to 0.038mm. The shop checked Piston 1 for wrist pin bore piston to-pin clearance and piston dimensions and it's good to go. Dropping in the rest of the pistons in this weekend and hopefully button up the motor on Sunday.

Sounding real good. That rod bearing clearance is on the higher side; But seeing you have aftermarket bearings, this should be very well suited for. I'd reckon you use higher VIS oil when you're finally settling it down. Thin oil under such gap will tend to struggle to provide that film you'll need. I'm thinking 5w-30 or 5w-40, or even 0w-40 will work alright with this setup. Try to dodge 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil if you can.

[Dynamics99]

Originally Posted by yupetc

Sounding real good. That rod bearing clearance is on the higher side; But seeing you have aftermarket bearings, this should be very well suited for. I'd reckon you use higher VIS oil when you're finally settling it down. Thin oil under such gap will tend to struggle to provide that film you'll need. I'm thinking 5w-30 or 5w-40, or even 0w-40 will work alright with this setup. Try to dodge 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil if you can.

Yes, I am using 5w-30 for this build it seems like. Now it can be a unified oil purchase for all my cars. All my three BMWs will be drinking 5w-30 .

[Dynamics99]

I have dropped the pistons and rods in. Torqued them down to spec. Engine turns over smoothly with the assembly lube even though force is needed since im moving like 60lbs +. So now I have to put the cylinder head on I believe and then comes the oil pump and timing stuff?


For tightening the crank bolt do I have to get that specific tool or is there a different way to torque it? I don't have the flywheel attached since it's on the engine stand.

Here is a link I found on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Crankshaft-Hu.../dp/B0C4G58YKB

[yupetc]

Originally Posted by Dynamics99

I have dropped the pistons and rods in. Torqued them down to spec. Engine turns over smoothly with the assembly lube even though force is needed since im moving like 60lbs +. So now I have to put the cylinder head on I believe and then comes the oil pump and timing stuff?


For tightening the crank bolt do I have to get that specific tool or is there a different way to torque it? I don't have the flywheel attached since it's on the engine stand.

Here is a link I found on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Crankshaft-Hu.../dp/B0C4G58YKB
Attachment 3382493

You will absolutely need that tool to secure the crank in place. This is the best and most proper way to get it done. In earlier days when I didn't use this tool, I was torqueing it against the flywheel and I"ve bent my locking key quite easily; do note that while a-doing it, the cam shafts are also locked with the camshaft tools and I was hoping the timing chain will help distribute the counter force with the camshafts (I was so wrong because the VANOS sprockets are sprung and will not offer counter force). Anyway, with a crank shaft counter locking tool like that, you'll need someone to help you stabilize the tool while you apply the 270-degrees torque beyond 100 Nm. About 150 degrees or so you'll get some real resistance and when I did it alone, I had to anchor the counter crank tool on a stationary worktop with all sorts of tie down to keep it in place. That last 220-270 degree stretch have always kept my back sore for days after; and while it's not ideal to move in small increments, I had no choice at the time due to no help. But for working with such torque-to-yield bolt, you best stage it with some helping hands and try to get that torque with as few increments as possible.

Nowadays when I build my motor, I would install the crank bolt before I even put the head on, this method has a trade-off where the head can provide counter-weight, making it more stable for torqueing. But I've been able to do the crank bolt without the head, so that's been my preferred method. Just don't forget to sling in both oil pump chain and timing chain before threading in the crank bolt. The way I see it, that bolt is the most dangerous part to install onto this motor, so the sooner I can get this done, I can get some relief and the job is down hills in cruise control after this. The head bolts are relatively easy in comparison to the crank bolt.

There was also one instance when I worked on a dry N55 motor build that I lay the block on the garage floor with that crank countering tool, and use the floor as my counter lever to get the torque in.

Also, I'm assuming you'll be using the 3/4" driver to apply the torque, right? Mine was a 40" long handle version from Northern Tools; and that wasn't enough levering advantage; so it helps when I remove the handle/shaft from the floor jack and use it to extend the torque distance. My math tells me that if I can apply torque at 80" long handle, my input force only need to be half of what 40" will need. So every bit of tips and tricks will help.

[wheela]

Originally Posted by yupetc

You will absolutely need that tool to secure the crank in place. This is the best and most proper way to get it done. In earlier days when I didn't use this tool, I was torqueing it against the flywheel and I"ve bent my locking key quite easily; do note that while a-doing it, the cam shafts are also locked with the camshaft tools and I was hoping the timing chain will help distribute the counter force with the camshafts (I was so wrong because the VANOS sprockets are sprung and will not offer counter force). Anyway, with a crank shaft counter locking tool like that, you'll need someone to help you stabilize the tool while you apply the 270-degrees torque beyond 100 Nm. About 150 degrees or so you'll get some real resistance and when I did it alone, I had to anchor the counter crank tool on a stationary worktop with all sorts of tie down to keep it in place. That last 220-270 degree stretch have always kept my back sore for days after; and while it's not ideal to move in small increments, I had no choice at the time due to no help. But for working with such torque-to-yield bolt, you best stage it with some helping hands and try to get that torque with as few increments as possible.

Nowadays when I build my motor, I would install the crank bolt before I even put the head on, this method has a trade-off where the head can provide counter-weight, making it more stable for torqueing. But I've been able to do the crank bolt without the head, so that's been my preferred method. Just don't forget to sling in both oil pump chain and timing chain before threading in the crank bolt. The way I see it, that bolt is the most dangerous part to install onto this motor, so the sooner I can get this done, I can get some relief and the job is down hills in cruise control after this. The head bolts are relatively easy in comparison to the crank bolt.

There was also one instance when I worked on a dry N55 motor build that I lay the block on the garage floor with that crank countering tool, and use the floor as my counter lever to get the torque in.

Also, I'm assuming you'll be using the 3/4" driver to apply the torque, right? Mine was a 40" long handle version from Northern Tools; and that wasn't enough levering advantage; so it helps when I remove the handle/shaft from the floor jack and use it to extend the torque distance. My math tells me that if I can apply torque at 80" long handle, my input force only need to be half of what 40" will need. So every bit of tips and tricks will help.

Wow, great info Quick question, you said the vanos sprockets are sprung and will not offer counter force? I'm confused what you mean by sprung?

[Dynamics99]

I've ordered the tool. My wallet crying haha. I have a 1/2 impact socket with a 1/2 breaker to apply the torque. Should I up it to 3/4? I saw videos online where one doing the N54 motor had the jack on a vertical wood block to support the counter hold tool and keep it from rotating.

If you go to 15:18 it shows you. I've got the same exact jack haha.

[yupetc]

Originally Posted by Dynamics99

I've ordered the tool. My wallet crying haha. I have a 1/2 impact socket with a 1/2 breaker to apply the torque. Should I up it to 3/4? I saw videos online where one doing the N54 motor had the jack on a vertical wood block to support the counter hold tool and keep it from rotating.

If you go to 15:18 it shows you. I've got the same exact jack haha.

Yeah, that'll work, I'm surprised to see how well he had it stabilized. That wasn't how mine went. My engine stand is from Harbor Freight, and I remember there are some slack to where the entire engine and the stand tend to slip away from where I was applying torque. Really annoying. That's why instead of coasting the locking handle onto the jack, I coasted on my stationary work bench and got it to work.

On 1/2" driver, I'd still suggest you go with the 3/4" driver at least. My setup is a 3/4" driver, a 3/4" female to 1/2" male adapter, and a 1/2" drive 22mm socket and it does the trick better. I've tried the 1/2" drive directly before and I didn't like it because of the amount of flex it has on the shaft, seems really unsafe. Sorry, bro, that's just my engineering degree kicking some sense into this, so I'd reckon everyone what I think is safe.

[yupetc]

Originally Posted by wheela

Wow, great info Quick question, you said the vanos sprockets are sprung and will not offer counter force? I'm confused what you mean by sprung?

If/when you're relying on the timing chain to help lock the crank shaft in place, along with the cam lock and all, you'll see the the timing sprockets move without moving the camshaft; that's because the VANOS have a spring inside the sprockets to where movement is allowed without turning the camshaft. Though the direction of the sprocket spring favors the crank turn and help you secure the crank in place, it's still got a slight give everytime you go at it. Also, it's a very bad move to use the camshaft as your locking assistant for the crank because the camshafts are hollow tubed hydroformed lobes, the amount of metal for the camshaft is very light, it's not meant to take on this much force and used as a counter.

[wheela]

Originally Posted by yupetc

If/when you're relying on the timing chain to help lock the crank shaft in place, along with the cam lock and all, you'll see the the timing sprockets move without moving the camshaft; that's because the VANOS have a spring inside the sprockets to where movement is allowed without turning the camshaft. Though the direction of the sprocket spring favors the crank turn and help you secure the crank in place, it's still got a slight give everytime you go at it. Also, it's a very bad move to use the camshaft as your locking assistant for the crank because the camshafts are hollow tubed hydroformed lobes, the amount of metal for the camshaft is very light, it's not meant to take on this much force and used as a counter.

Wow, so the sprocket is coupled to the cam shaft with a spring? I never knew that, thanks for explaining. I wonder why they do that? To help reduce shock in the valvetrain from the cam lobes interacting with the follower/roller (not sure what it's actually called)?

It's not obvious looking on realoem. Is the spring somehow built into components 4, 5, or 12? I can't see anything on the actual cam shaft pictures.