[BudVlad]

Originally Posted by justpete

Did you swing the camber out with the swingarm eccentrics after the stock alignment was done? Do you have adjustable toe arms?

I increased camber after stock M3 alignment with adjustable toe arms (Megan). Tire damage was probably caused by shitty PowerFlex ball joint:

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by BudVlad

I increased camber after stock M3 alignment with adjustable toe arms (Megan). Tire damage was probably caused by shitty PowerFlex ball joint:

No shocker there, they really seem to be having a lot of issues recently. I've seen quite a few of their poly bushings that have just disintegrated.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by BudVlad

I increased camber after stock M3 alignment with adjustable toe arms (Megan). Tire damage was probably caused by shitty PowerFlex ball joint:

I think you have to adjust camber via the eccentric on the swingarm and then adjust the toe with the toe arm checking that the camber isn't strongly affected by the change in the toe arm length. I had it backwards at one point for some idiotic reason but once I started changing the suspension settings myself it became a lot clearer. The toe arm is going to change toe more than camber so by the time the desired camber is set there's too much toe-in dialed in. Only way to find out is to measure with toe plates or SmartStrings or something.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by BudVlad

I increased camber after stock M3 alignment with adjustable toe arms (Megan). Tire damage was probably caused by shitty PowerFlex ball joint:

Which ball joint is this?

[BudVlad]

Originally Posted by justpete

Which ball joint is this?

It’s the outer ball joint on the lower strut. Part No. 6792553

[Taskmaster]

Powerflex gonna Powerflex.

[JeM9]

This car =

[justpete]

Axiom, you asked for a driving report once everything was all done.

Went to a BMWCCA HPDE last weekend at MSR Cresson and ran the 1.7mi circuit CW. Ran it this way last fall but not since. Also ran the car in the afternoon at a Classic BMW trackday on 24Sep but it was in the CCW direction.

The car didn't have the XP10 pads or the solid guide bushings installed at the Classic trackday and the front camber hadn't been set to max either. All of this was done for the HPDE though.

I didn't push things on the Classic track day as it was the car's first time at the track since all the mods were done and the added horsepower as I've noted changed shift points, etc. so it got a bit confusing. Didn't really go much faster than I have previously but the suspension and tires allowed me to at least be smoother. It was just much easier to aim.

At the HPDE it was considerably different. The brakes were much more firm with lots more torque and the steering was quicker. Hard to say for sure but it seems like it was able to hold higher lateral gs better with the added camber. Difficult to upset it as well. I tried to anyway, unintentionally...

The DSC was kicking in more than I've felt in the past and after I got bumped up to intermediate for the Sunday sessions I turned it off completely for the first time and gained a second in lap time immediately.

Here's a pic of the right front wheel's brake dust the DSC was throwing. The front left wasn't nearly as heavy.



No problems with control, no surprises even when screwing up carrying a lot more speed into some of the turns. The shifter and clutch really made for quick shifts without losing torque to slippage. Mistimed shifts would slide the rear tires a bit as expected but nothing dramatic. All in all it was quicker than I could drive it and tame enough to be less of a problem than some were having with their M3s on stock suspensions.

Here's the analysis output of the fastest lap. I was all over the place trying to find the faster lines so the fastest sectors are all over the place too. But it looks like putting them all together in the future will find a second and a half, didn't expect that. Not fast by any definition but over six seconds faster than last year and about three and a half seconds faster in the CCW direction if taking into consideration CW is about two seconds slower than CCW.

You can see in the slip angle data that I'm not taking advantage of all the available traction in sector one. Haven't quite found the fastest speed through the turn complex in sector two either but it was better than before although not as good as in lap eight. Sector three is a blind off-camber downhill decreasing radius right and the following turn really has to be taken at a late apex which makes the bumpy ride across the pave lanes less violent.

There's a ripple-like bump near the apex of the turn after that in sector five which can seriously upset a car and which caused numerous spins including one off-track. The suspension setup on this car really didn't notice, the car felt totally in control albeit rocked by the upset yet the car never deviated from the line. I mean I didn't have to actively wrestle the car through the upset and keep it on the line, kinda like the average of it all stayed where it would've if there hadn't been a bump. If you hit the apex late the bump's avoided so it was easy to tell the difference across laps by varying the apex point. Definitely a track car now, just what I was looking for.

[kobeballer96]

Videos please!

[justpete]

Originally Posted by kobeballer96

Videos please!

Sorry, didn't bother.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by kobeballer96

Videos please!

OTOH, running the 3.1mi at MSRC weekend after this and I've never even seen the 1.3mi section of it so will video it to make it easier to remember. They only run it CCW so at least the 1.7mi section of it is memorized. And making a hash of Eagles Canyon the week after that. Never been there so video is a necessity to help memorize the line. No idea how to postprocess a vid and get it uploaded though.

[Taskmaster]

Amazing.

[justpete]

OTOH, the fastest guys in advanced plus were turning about 1:22

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

OTOH, the fastest guys in advanced plus were turning about 1:22

Over 10 seconds off?!

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Over 10 seconds off?!

You bet. One guy was running a Porsche Cup car at near the speed of light...

The last qualifying time for a NASA club race for the CCW direction was 1:25, iirc.

Then again I got a point by from a newish M3 every session cuz he was still spooked from spinning off at the bump in that one turn. I was perfectly happy to give point-bys to the GT-R, the vette, and the apparently rocket powered 335.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

You bet. One guy was running a Porsche Cup car at near the speed of light...

The last qualifying time for a NASA club race for the CCW direction was 1:25, iirc.

Then again I got a point by from a newish M3 every session cuz he was still spooked from spinning off at the bump in that one turn. I was perfectly happy to give point-bys to the GT-R, the vette, and the apparently rocket powered 335.

What else is there you can do to bridge the gap. More power maybe, but how does the suspension on the car feel? Sorted? Neutral? Oversteer? Excessive Tire wear? Brakes holding up, and resisting fade?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

What else is there you can do to bridge the gap. More power maybe, but how does the suspension on the car feel? Sorted? Neutral? Oversteer? Excessive Tire wear? Brakes holding up, and resisting fade?

Technically the gap exists between driver competencies. The gap closes with seat time and good training. The car isn't the limiting factor, by design. It feels perfectly sorted, no oversteer, no understeer, no excessive tire wear, brakes are nowhere near fading. This is still a momentum car which makes the brakes much less important since they're used progressively less as skill level progresses. I'm already using them far less than just a month ago but when they are used they provide much more precise modulation and stopping power in conjunction with the tires than the OE pads and Pirelli runflats. There are no technical issues with the car at present.

We can squeeze a few more hp out of the engine and lighten it up a bit but in order to run race shells it'll have to have at least a half cage, I'm told. So that tends to negate a good portion of the weight savings of using the shells, among other things.

I'm guessing a ram air intake with foglight delete, C&R radiator, Evans Coolant, lower thermostat temp, two step colder NGK plugs, lightening by another 300lbs less what the cage adds back in isn't going to gain much more than maybe 10-15rwhp and a slight improvement in the hp/weight ratio. The race shells, chassis stiffening (Ultra Racing), and six points will make control easier under high lateral gs though and that's worth some lap time in and of itself.

There's access to driver training, at a cost, that I'll take advantage of and I'll probably have to join MSRC to get enough seat time to make it worth the effort. I can see getting below 1:30 as being relatively easy but getting close to 1:25 will take a lot higher level of effort and time, if it's even possible. Comparing times across classes of cars is misleading and I've yet to figure out what a real world comparable lap time would be.

Bear in mind though it's the only 328i in intermediate or advanced groups and it was the only one in novice as well nearly all the times I've been at the track. There's a killer 330 and another 330i that are quasi-racecars in intermediate that are rocket fast and are piloted by very competent drivers but that's about it, I think.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by justpete

Technically the gap exists between driver competencies. The gap closes with seat time and good training. The car isn't the limiting factor, by design. It feels perfectly sorted, no oversteer, no understeer, no excessive tire wear, brakes are nowhere near fading. This is still a momentum car which makes the brakes much less important since they're used progressively less as skill level progresses. I'm already using them far less than just a month ago but when they are used they provide much more precise modulation and stopping power in conjunction with the tires than the OE pads and Pirelli runflats. There are no technical issues with the car at present.

We can squeeze a few more hp out of the engine and lighten it up a bit but in order to run race shells it'll have to have at least a half cage, I'm told. So that tends to negate a good portion of the weight savings of using the shells, among other things.

I'm guessing a ram air intake with foglight delete, C&R radiator, Evans Coolant, lower thermostat temp, two step colder NGK plugs, lightening by another 300lbs less what the cage adds back in isn't going to gain much more than maybe 10-15rwhp and a slight improvement in the hp/weight ratio. The race shells, chassis stiffening (Ultra Racing), and six points will make control easier under high lateral gs though and that's worth some lap time in and of itself.

There's access to driver training, at a cost, that I'll take advantage of and I'll probably have to join MSRC to get enough seat time to make it worth the effort. I can see getting below 1:30 as being relatively easy but getting close to 1:25 will take a lot higher level of effort and time, if it's even possible. Comparing times across classes of cars is misleading and I've yet to figure out what a real world comparable lap time would be.

Bear in mind though it's the only 328i in intermediate or advanced groups and it was the only one in novice as well nearly all the times I've been at the track. There's a killer 330 and another 330i that are quasi-racecars in intermediate that are rocket fast and are piloted by very competent drivers but that's about it, I think.

What tires and brakes?
Ever plan on making a trip out to Serbring?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

What tires and brakes?
Ever plan on making a trip out to Serbring?

Toyo R1R 255/35ZR18 square, 32psi cold

Pre-bedded XP10 pads on all corners, Hardbrake titanium shims up front

Not planning on running any tracks out of the area.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by justpete

Toyo R1R 255/35ZR18 square, 32psi cold

Pre-bedded XP10 pads on all corners, Hardbrake titanium shims up front

Not planning on running any tracks out of the area.

Lap 8 - Sec 5 you took a little nap there :-)

Your last few laps were consistent. This is a complicated track. I turn TC off completely on track but be very careful to learn where the limits are.

Are you braking with your left foot?

Good job and the most important thing is both the car and driver are well!

[justpete]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

Lap 8 - Sec 5 you took a little nap there :-)

Your last few laps were consistent. This is a complicated track. I turn TC off completely on track but be very careful to learn where the limits are.

Are you braking with your left foot?

Good job and the most important thing is both the car and driver are well!

Thanks!

Oh yeah, that was a bad corner. Had two cars coming up on me very fast and close while chasing a yellow 330i (I think). It's a good thing too cuz he spun and was facing backwards on-line about where I would've been tracking out but instead I'd slid out real wide at the same time the spin was in progress. Lifted, recovered, made sure they were ok in a quick look, and went on to the next corner as fast as possible. Not enough room to point the guys behind me by, had to wait for the front straight. That's what I get for looking in the rearview too long. Dang but that spooks me every time dangit...

Sector three was still confounding me but laps 10-13 were pretty good/consistent but slowed up in next two trying a different entry on sector one. I remember lap six on sector five being the fastest since it indexed noticeably higher on exit which was odd cuz I displaced the apex farther than I intended but I didn't pinch the turn and the line felt correct. Wasn't able to duplicate it though. Probably just a fluke.

Yeah, it's complicated alright. Sector one turn is blind right up to the brake zone, is wider than the exit straight, has a negative camber strip along the curb but the line is out wider, you can see it in the map. The following straight is slightly uphill with the turn complex following being fairly flat. The following straight is slightly downhill as is the next straight. Track out on the sector five corner is somewhat blind and you have to shuffle to the left and swing over on the rumble strip a bit with a very quick hard brake at turn in uphill to the off-camber apex flooring it all the way and unwinding it up the hill to the left rumble strip where it then hits the carousel blind. Quick braking over the hill and if you catch the right line the turn in to the double chicane is natural with just a little rotation uphill and straight to make the sharp left, uphill again, to stab and turn across the highest point on the track and into the off-camber exit to the front straight. Tricky line there to avoid scrubbing.

And no I haven't started left foot braking yet, just now starting to practice on the street. Would've been helpful on sector three's turn.

This was the third session running without traction control that day. Took it very easy and worked back up to where we'd been running with it to make sure I wasn't going to go into a slide at the chicane entrance since that would total the car. Was easy to gain confidence with the tires and camber as they are, very stable. Even overcooking the sector one and two turn entries was stable with a little throttle steering and wheel work, never threatened to break loose, very predictable, more so than I thought it would. Seems to be a decent safety margin but then that margin can disappear in a hurry as speeds increase so yeah, gotta be extra careful. Gotta drive it home.

Won't get to drive it CW again until I join MSRC or sign up with Apex for private instruction on a member day where they're running it CW. Forgot to check if the shop's driver training is at Eagles Canyon or MSR, probably the former.

[Mavus]

Well that was an excellent experience! No reason to push it until you feel comfortable. I get a feeling from your summary that you need more time to bond with the car. It is a long process. That track is excellent. If you spend more time on it you will own it.