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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > MHD "take a look at my log" thread



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      06-22-2021, 07:38 AM   #4863
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Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Thanks again, kickdown is new to me, can someone explain this to me? Or direct me to a link to read.
It's a mechanism of your gas pedal, so when you mash the pedal, the car downshifts to the "optimal" gear for acceleration. I know there is a way to disable it, but i'm 6MT so not sure how.
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      06-22-2021, 08:32 AM   #4864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab987 View Post
I thought so on the torque actual value. But that value did seem pretty accurate on that log up above given the 100-200 time, it was around the same as mine and I bet it wasn't an e93. And if it can be set anywhere, wouldn't a tune have to manually set it for it to be inaccurate? Doesn't the DME calculate and update it every x ms? Sorry for dragging this on, just my software engineer side coming out and it sounds like you might know what's actually going on here
Mine is a 2008 E93 with MHD Stage 1+

Is everyone saying my numbers are good, no wastegate, LPFP issue?

And that the odd data logged is a result of kickdown?
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      06-22-2021, 08:56 AM   #4865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Mine is a 2008 E93 with MHD Stage 1+

Is everyone saying my numbers are good, no wastegate, LPFP issue?

And that the odd data logged is a result of kickdown?
Your LPFP is dropping below 50 psi and WGDC is a bit high for Stage 1+
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      06-22-2021, 09:11 AM   #4866
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Thanks, should I go back from MHD Stage 1+ to 1 until I get these resolved?
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      06-22-2021, 09:32 AM   #4867
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Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Thanks, should I go back from MHD Stage 1+ to 1 until I get these resolved?
You can do yes. WGDC is not dangerously high but LPFP dropping below 50 psi is not good.
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      06-22-2021, 09:34 AM   #4868
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Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Thanks, should I go back from MHD Stage 1+ to 1 until I get these resolved?
Not a real need to do so but if you'd like, can't hurt. If you do so, I believe MHD has the kickdown delete option so go ahead and flash that, and I would try to get another log locked in 3rd gear just to be sure but likely you just need a new LPFP. When mine went out I just went with a new OEM unit, they handle up to E30 and it was a super easy install.
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      06-22-2021, 10:24 AM   #4869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Mine is a 2008 E93 with MHD Stage 1+

Is everyone saying my numbers are good, no wastegate, LPFP issue?

And that the odd data logged is a result of kickdown?
Sorry I was referring to the fellow's log at 29psi on stock turbos. Nothing weird about the kickdown, it just has super low load and doesn't build much boost while it's kicking down and makes it look like it took 2000rpm to spool when in reality it was probably more like 500
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      06-22-2021, 12:16 PM   #4870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Not a real need to do so but if you'd like, can't hurt. If you do so, I believe MHD has the kickdown delete option so go ahead and flash that, and I would try to get another log locked in 3rd gear just to be sure but likely you just need a new LPFP. When mine went out I just went with a new OEM unit, they handle up to E30 and it was a super easy install.
All the ones I am finding online include the sending unit. I don't need a sending unit and would prefer to not install one. Do I have to do this at the same time? Or can I disconnect the sending unit on the new one? It's not clear to me if the sending unit is "hard wired" to the LPFP or not.
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Last edited by Gregrobin; 06-22-2021 at 12:21 PM..
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      06-22-2021, 01:15 PM   #4871
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Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
Not a real need to do so but if you'd like, can't hurt. If you do so, I believe MHD has the kickdown delete option so go ahead and flash that, and I would try to get another log locked in 3rd gear just to be sure but likely you just need a new LPFP. When mine went out I just went with a new OEM unit, they handle up to E30 and it was a super easy install.
All the ones I am finding online include the sending unit. I don't need a sending unit and would prefer to not install one. Do I have to do this at the same time? Or can I disconnect the sending unit on the new one? It's not clear to me if the sending unit is "hard wired" to the LPFP or not.
I don't believe they are, but if you're interested in doing something like that, DIYing a Walbro 450 will likely be your best option. At that point you'd be able to handle up to E50 (which I believe is where the HPFP runs out of fueling) Not much point in hacking up the stock bucket just to install a stock pump. If you're like me and often bring your gas level down to 1/4 or less, i'd recommend against a bucketless setup. Many here will say it's fine since it's only really an issue if you're tracking the car and doing lots of cornering but better safe than sorry imo.
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      06-22-2021, 02:33 PM   #4872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
I don't believe they are, but if you're interested in doing something like that, DIYing a Walbro 450 will likely be your best option. At that point you'd be able to handle up to E50 (which I believe is where the HPFP runs out of fueling) Not much point in hacking up the stock bucket just to install a stock pump. If you're like me and often bring your gas level down to 1/4 or less, i'd recommend against a bucketless setup. Many here will say it's fine since it's only really an issue if you're tracking the car and doing lots of cornering but better safe than sorry imo.
I am looking for an "as OEM as possible" solution tat addresses the issue and gives me the option to go to MHD stage 2, no higher. I don't plan to race, drag, scream, do meth (maybe a little weed though), E85, kick, fight, etc...
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      06-22-2021, 03:20 PM   #4873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
I don't believe they are, but if you're interested in doing something like that, DIYing a Walbro 450 will likely be your best option. At that point you'd be able to handle up to E50 (which I believe is where the HPFP runs out of fueling) Not much point in hacking up the stock bucket just to install a stock pump. If you're like me and often bring your gas level down to 1/4 or less, i'd recommend against a bucketless setup. Many here will say it's fine since it's only really an issue if you're tracking the car and doing lots of cornering but better safe than sorry imo.
I am looking for an "as OEM as possible" solution tat addresses the issue and gives me the option to go to MHD stage 2, no higher. I don't plan to race, drag, scream, do meth (maybe a little weed though), E85, kick, fight, etc...
Gotcha, in that case i'm not too sure. Someone else may have a proper answer for you. I know I went with a new OEM unit just to skip the hassle bc I knew I likely won't even try anything past E30 because of how ethanol loves to degrade our injectors.
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      06-22-2021, 05:07 PM   #4874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregrobin View Post
I am looking for an "as OEM as possible" solution tat addresses the issue and gives me the option to go to MHD stage 2, no higher. I don't plan to race, drag, scream, do meth (maybe a little weed though), E85, kick, fight, etc...
If you don't want to run Ethanol, OEM should good enough.
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      06-22-2021, 10:23 PM   #4875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave92N54 View Post
RSL back to make us all look stupid again

Guess this is the last time I skip looking at gear
Nah, just to help. Things have to go on for a while before I feel compelled to log in and offer my $0.02 though lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ab987 View Post
I thought so on the torque actual value. But that value did seem pretty accurate on that log up above given the 100-200 time, it was around the same as mine and I bet it wasn't an e93. And if it can be set anywhere, wouldn't a tune have to manually set it for it to be inaccurate? Doesn't the DME calculate and update it every x ms? Sorry for dragging this on, just my software engineer side coming out and it sounds like you might know what's actually going on here
BMW may have mapped it out reasonably well above stock levels, but it would've been done with the all things stock for those levels, which no one keeps. Change AFR or any of the factors that effect it and it's altered.

Chances are, any tuned N54 at almost any level will actually produce 525-625nm range and torque actual will generally be in that range, either by default or on purpose. Stock AT has to be limited to around 600nm max reported to avoid limiters and issues. Even MHD OTS maps ask which trans before flashing, there's a reason. Either way, reported and actual output values will generally be close out of coincidence or necessity, especially on canned tunes.

Torque actual is completely detached from actual output though and can't be used as a measure. As an example, here's a log I did a long time ago, make an estimate of the actual power.
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      06-23-2021, 12:03 AM   #4876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSL View Post
Nah, just to help. Things have to go on for a while before I feel compelled to log in and offer my $0.02 though lol


BMW may have mapped it out reasonably well above stock levels, but it would've been done with the all things stock for those levels, which no one keeps. Change AFR or any of the factors that effect it and it's altered.

Chances are, any tuned N54 at almost any level will actually produce 525-625nm range and torque actual will generally be in that range, either by default or on purpose. Stock AT has to be limited to around 600nm max reported to avoid limiters and issues. Even MHD OTS maps ask which trans before flashing, there's a reason. Either way, reported and actual output values will generally be close out of coincidence or necessity, especially on canned tunes.

Torque actual is completely detached from actual output though and can't be used as a measure. As an example, here's a log I did a long time ago, make an estimate of the actual power.
Surely not 900-1000, right? I don't know your setup but I would imagine at least 2x stock power? I'll go with 680 Anyways that makes sense, I'm in no way saying "ditch dynos! There's one built in!" but I would certainly imagine BMW would have it from the factory within 10% or so, at least below 4500 or so. As you said the effects of AFR and whatnot wouldn't be perfectly calculated so tuned it would make sense that it would get more inaccurate. My car fully stock reported 440 odd nm, and that's really spot on as we've seen from dynos. Seems to me like the DME just doesn't account for the massive pressure and resistance in the turbine housing that robs us stock turbo guys of all that powah, and it reads really high up top. Is that pretty close? Thanks for the reply by the way. I'm fascinated by the sophistication of our DMEs
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      06-23-2021, 07:10 AM   #4877
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hello everybody can somebody check about my logs ? 07 335i e93 fbo without inlets mhd stg2 plus and xhp stg3 . pump fuel 91oct. thanks

https://datazap.me/u/umitp/20062021-...a=3-22&mark=66

https://datazap.me/u/umitp/20062021-2?log=0&data=3-22
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      06-23-2021, 07:21 AM   #4878
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Originally Posted by umitp View Post
hello everybody can somebody check about my logs ? 07 335i e93 fbo without inlets mhd stg2 plus and xhp stg3 . pump fuel 91oct. thanks

https://datazap.me/u/umitp/20062021-...a=3-22&mark=66

https://datazap.me/u/umitp/20062021-2?log=0&data=3-22
LPFP dropping below 50 psi, and timing corrections probably due to poor fuel (91 Oct)

Try 93oct fuel if you can get hold of it. Probably a good idea to upgrade LPFP to a stage 2 one, as well.
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      06-23-2021, 11:43 AM   #4879
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Originally Posted by Saif2018 View Post
LPFP dropping below 50 psi, and timing corrections probably due to poor fuel (91 Oct)

Try 93oct fuel if you can get hold of it. Probably a good idea to upgrade LPFP to a stage 2 one, as well.
Thanks for your reply. I use best fuel in here but its also no good. LPFP i will search about stage 2 if it will be good
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      06-23-2021, 11:53 AM   #4880
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Thanks for your reply. I use best fuel in here but its also no good. LPFP i will search about stage 2 if it will be good
Plugs and coils been done recently?
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      06-23-2021, 02:16 PM   #4881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab987 View Post
Surely not 900-1000, right? I don't know your setup but I would imagine at least 2x stock power? I'll go with 680 Anyways that makes sense, I'm in no way saying "ditch dynos! There's one built in!" but I would certainly imagine BMW would have it from the factory within 10% or so, at least below 4500 or so. As you said the effects of AFR and whatnot wouldn't be perfectly calculated so tuned it would make sense that it would get more inaccurate. My car fully stock reported 440 odd nm, and that's really spot on as we've seen from dynos. Seems to me like the DME just doesn't account for the massive pressure and resistance in the turbine housing that robs us stock turbo guys of all that powah, and it reads really high up top. Is that pretty close? Thanks for the reply by the way. I'm fascinated by the sophistication of our DMEs
Max it's ever been is around 475-500whp, hybrids on pump gas only, but probably closer to 400whp there.

Settings/stock tune are different depending on rom/revision/ZB. Mine is DCT. If you want it close to reality, it will need to be measured and adjusted. Most raise it as much as they can within limits to increase hydraulic pressures in the trans though.

Here are old trans logs with varying torque actual to show the pressure changes. v1 is an old stock 335is INA0S, about 500nm peak torque actual, v3 is about 540nm peak torque actual and v5 is about 775nm peak torque actual. Pressures are in bar, clutch 2 is engaged where the marker is.
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      06-23-2021, 06:26 PM   #4882
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Plugs and coils been done recently?
Yes, but im thinking about s55 coils and 1 step colder plugs for more reliability ? Also ordered fuel it stg2 lpfp already now 👍
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      06-23-2021, 09:33 PM   #4883
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Can someone take a look and let me know how much more these hybrid turbos can go based on the WGDC's. Also, any other observations and/or suggestions would be great. The torque limiting is killing the 3-4 shift, but I'm getting XHP this weekend which should eliminate that. Car was doing 3/4 seconds per 10 MPH until the shift where it doubled. Pretty sad for a DCT car.

Hybrid turbos (DAW775's), Stage 2 LPFP, inlets/outlets, 7 1/2" intercooler, PI with 550cc injectors, Motiv tuning (Chris), and VRSF exhaust.

https://datazap.me/u/awheelus/335is-...22-26-29-30-31
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      06-24-2021, 01:27 AM   #4884
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Guys can you take a look at my log to see if all is ok, would like to hear a second opinion.

Currently on v3.1 JSR custom tune with 1M Throttle tables.

https://datazap.me/u/shelim2020/jsr-...=0&data=3-4-23
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