[Bimmer_Engineer]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

I can't find the Amazon link anymore, but this one is the same description.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rev9-BMW-E8...-/351953081029

I have had it a couple of years. I have installed a few and I have never had an issue with the OEM couplers. I have also installed a couple of VSRF 7" and of course with those there is cutting and universal couplers and such to work with. If you get a larger one that require the used of couplers, I highly recommend getting proper quality worm gear clamps to use instead of the cheap T bolts that most ship with their FMIC's.

I have had this one a couple of years, no issues. I will be going with something larger when I install the PS2.

This is the same one that I have...they were in the low $200 range last year...must be the tariffs...

[turbohugh]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

This is the same one that I have...they were in the low $200 range last year...must be the tariffs...

I think my ARM looked like that also. I see no issues with stock couplers if your using stock turbos

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by studio54

I also found that AA makes a stock connectors FMIC, they claims a 0.5 psi pressure drop on their website.

If nobody has gone through that kind of testing, how it is sure that it's really way better?

I said i wasn't here to start another debate here, but it started anyway

I just don't really understand why it is supposed to make a such big difference on stock turbos with stock oulet, even on remapped cars (let's say with OTS maps, with a maximum of 18 psi on stage 2+)?

I mean, but i may be (probably) wrong, but for stock turbos, with so much air arriving fastly in the endtank through the stock turbo outlet, replacing a section with bigger diameter tubing must also fullfil the endtank in a mater of milliseconds...
It's just like retarding the thing by adding some extra volume? isn't the endtank design and the way air flow trough the thin most important that this small part of the tubing ?
(just trying to understand how it works here, i am not an engineer)

Concerning my Forge FMIC, i consider that the endtank design isn't smooth for a good airflow.

My response was that nobody has compared all 4 of those intercoolers with comparative data in a controlled environment. I'm sure through some research you may find some datalogs of people with those intercoolers individually.

You have to realize, intercooler talk is with all due respect, beating a dead horse. I know this is the ultimate intercooler thread but the platform is well over a decade old. Intercoolers have already proved themselves. Some people are a price sensitive to the one they choose, others care about decent gains, others are concerned with certain quality and performance and others may just prefer certain brands or something else. You never really know why people chose what they chose. Above all else, if they've only used 1 aftermarket intercooler, what's to say they aren't missing something going with a different one.

What I tell most customers shopping is to pick the intercooler that supports your power goals, driving habits and climate. You do that and everything else generally falls in line. A lot of forum talk is opinions, not fact. If you want to entrust the opinions of others without the data then in most respects, the result is mass confusion and still no clear concise path as to what to do. That's the bad about forums. Lot of opinions, no facts, no data.


Everything is a factor.

Pressure Drop
End Tank Design
Core Size
Core Design
Core Type
Core Densitiy
Overall quality fit and finish

If anyone is still modding these vehicles under the notion that stock connections are "good enough" then those individuals are the same people that are OK with not having the best - and that's OK.

The stock connection VS larger diameter aftermarket lower CP has been proven before. Pressure drop is an important factor but if the intercooler itself cannot combat the intake air temps, saving a few 10ths on pressure drop becomes moot.

[studio54]

Nice copy of the Wagner Evo 1 Performance, they look very similar.

Sorry to insist on that, but did you felt any lag with it?

To complete the information about stock connectors FMICs, a forum member told me about the CSF one too, but i didn't find any review of it on N54s. However i found some thread of the M2 version where two people said it added a bit of lag.

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

My response was that nobody has compared all 4 of those intercoolers with comparative data in a controlled environment. I'm sure through some research you may find some datalogs of people with those intercoolers individually.

You have to realize, intercooler talk is with all due respect, beating a dead horse. I know this is the ultimate intercooler thread but the platform is well over a decade old. Intercoolers have already proved themselves. Some people are a price sensitive to the one they choose, others care about decent gains, others are concerned with certain quality and performance and others may just prefer certain brands or something else. You never really know why people chose what they chose. Above all else, if they've only used 1 aftermarket intercooler, what's to say they aren't missing something going with a different one.

What I tell most customers shopping is to pick the intercooler that supports your power goals, driving habits and climate. You do that and everything else generally falls in line. A lot of forum talk is opinions, not fact. If you want to entrust the opinions of others without the data then in most respects, the result is mass confusion and still no clear concise path as to what to do. That's the bad about forums. Lot of opinions, no facts, no data.


Everything is a factor.

Pressure Drop
End Tank Design
Core Size
Core Design
Core Type
Core Densitiy
Overall quality fit and finish

If anyone is still modding these vehicles under the notion that stock connections are "good enough" then those individuals are the same people that are OK with not having the best - and that's OK.

The stock connection VS larger diameter aftermarket lower CP has been proven before. Pressure drop is an important factor but if the intercooler itself cannot combat the intake air temps, saving a few 10ths on pressure drop becomes moot.

Thanks for your long answer.

I want to change my Forge FMIC, from which i am not fully satisfied. I bought it without making any research (my bad), just because it was the Forge brand (and plug and play btw), and because i was very satisfied with my Forge diverter valves.

The cooling is ok, but i think the lag is noticable (probably because of pressure drop and airflow design), but i am maybe very sensitive about the small extra lag.

My objective is to buy an intercooler with a good cooling while having the same response (or better) as with the stock FMIC at low end RPM, so i don't want to go wrong in the choice of my future FMIC this time. The stock connector is a plus for ease of installation, but i can go without this too.

The VRSF 5" HD seems to gather what i am searching, because it's known to having a better pressure drop than the stock one and the price is still fair. It does not have the stock connectors, but i have now read a lot of thread about the install, and it seems clearer in my mind.

Everybody are saying to go with the 7" HD, but isn't the 5" HD good enough for stock turbos/catless DP and MHD stage 2+ ? i do not plan to upgrade turbos or anything else + i am not doing track day.

Anyway thanks for reading, just trying to make my good choice this time

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by studio54

Nice copy of the Wagner Evo 1 Performance, they look very similar.

Sorry to insist on that, but did you felt any lag with it?

To complete the information about stock connectors FMICs, a forum member told me about the CSF one too, but i didn't find any review of it on N54s. However i found some thread of the M2 version where two people said it added a bit of lag.




Thanks for your long answer.

I want to change my Forge FMIC, from which i am not fully satisfied. I bought it without making any research (my bad), just because it was the Forge brand (and plug and play btw), and because i was very satisfied with my Forge diverter valves.

The cooling is ok, but i think the lag is noticable (probably because of pressure drop and airflow design), but i am maybe very sensitive about the small extra lag.

My objective is to buy an intercooler with a good cooling while having the same response (or better) as with the stock FMIC at low end RPM, so i don't want to go wrong in the choice of my future FMIC this time. The stock connector is a plus for ease of installation, but i can go without this too.

The VRSF 5" HD seems to gather what i am searching, because it's known to having a better pressure drop than the stock one and the price is still fair. It does not have the stock connectors, but i have now read a lot of thread about the install, and it seems clearer in my mind.

Everybody are saying to go with the 7" HD, but isn't the 5" HD good enough for stock turbos/catless DP and MHD stage 2+ ? i do not plan to upgrade turbos or anything else + i am not doing track day.

Anyway thanks for reading, just trying to make my good choice this time

The 5" is a very efficient intercooler now that it uses the HD fin pack, it will do a better job for pressure drop than the 7.5" Competition (the 7" HD has been discontinued). That being said the 7.5" Competition will easily outperform the 5" in IAT control.

Overall the 7.5" Competition is the better option for stage 2+ but if you are that worried and sensitive to lag, the 5" might be the better option for you.
Either intercooler is a major upgrade over your current one

[studio54]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

The 5" is a very efficient intercooler now that it uses the HD fin pack, it will do a better job for pressure drop than the 7.5" Competition (the 7" HD has been discontinued). That being said the 7.5" Competition will easily outperform the 5" in IAT control.

Overall the 7.5" Competition is the better option for stage 2+ but if you are that worried and sensitive to lag, the 5" might be the better option for you.
Either intercooler is a major upgrade over your current one

Yes, just looking for a bit extra cooling over the Forge, without pressure drop/lag. The 5" HD might be my future choice.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by studio54

Yes, just looking for a bit extra cooling over the Forge, without pressure drop/lag. The 5" HD might be my future choice.

[HB E90]

Originally Posted by studio54

Yes, just looking for a bit extra cooling over the Forge, without pressure drop/lag. The 5" HD might be my future choice.

I've been running it for about a month now and as explained on post #609 it exceeded my expectations as far as cooling. No lag at all in fact I think it spools quicker than stock. Feels stronger on the same tune. You'll love it.

[DM_e92]

Has anyone used a Race Intercooler with stock turbos? I plan to upgrade from my 5 inch ARM intercooler this summer. I just feel like why not just get the best intercooler there is to get... especially if its minimal lag added.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by DM_e92

Has anyone used a Race Intercooler with stock turbos? I plan to upgrade from my 5 inch ARM intercooler this summer. I just feel like why not just get the best intercooler there is to get... especially if its minimal lag added.

The 7.5" Competition would be the better option, the race intercooler is too big for stock turbo

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by studio54

Nice copy of the Wagner Evo 1 Performance, they look very similar.

Sorry to insist on that, but did you felt any lag with it?

To complete the information about stock connectors FMICs, a forum member told me about the CSF one too, but i didn't find any review of it on N54s. However i found some thread of the M2 version where two people said it added a bit of lag.




Thanks for your long answer.

I want to change my Forge FMIC, from which i am not fully satisfied. I bought it without making any research (my bad), just because it was the Forge brand (and plug and play btw), and because i was very satisfied with my Forge diverter valves.

The cooling is ok, but i think the lag is noticable (probably because of pressure drop and airflow design), but i am maybe very sensitive about the small extra lag.

My objective is to buy an intercooler with a good cooling while having the same response (or better) as with the stock FMIC at low end RPM, so i don't want to go wrong in the choice of my future FMIC this time. The stock connector is a plus for ease of installation, but i can go without this too.

The VRSF 5" HD seems to gather what i am searching, because it's known to having a better pressure drop than the stock one and the price is still fair. It does not have the stock connectors, but i have now read a lot of thread about the install, and it seems clearer in my mind.

Everybody are saying to go with the 7" HD, but isn't the 5" HD good enough for stock turbos/catless DP and MHD stage 2+ ? i do not plan to upgrade turbos or anything else + i am not doing track day.

Anyway thanks for reading, just trying to make my good choice this time

As much as an FMIC has some contribution to "lag", as we know it pretty negligible on this platform. Are you sure it's the FMIC?

You may want to consider a custom tune that caters to your needs in response, simple changes can make a huge difference.

Although most agendas from vendors are to sell you something, I'm more curious if what you're seeking is more tunable.

The 7" HD was replaced by the 7.5" Competition. VRSF 5" was recently upgraded to HD and performs as good if not better then their previous 7". So the 5" is likely what you would be seeking if you wanted to replace the FMIC.

[studio54]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

As much as an FMIC has some contribution to "lag", as we know it pretty negligible on this platform. Are you sure it's the FMIC?

You may want to consider a custom tune that caters to your needs in response, simple changes can make a huge difference.

Although most agendas from vendors are to sell you something, I'm more curious if what you're seeking is more tunable.

The 7" HD was replaced by the 7.5" Competition. VRSF 5" was recently upgraded to HD and performs as good if not better then their previous 7". So the 5" is likely what you would be seeking if you wanted to replace the FMIC.

Yes, the VRSF 5" HD seems to gather what i am searching.

Regarding my log, I think the Forge FMIC install is ok.

Another user ( Darkiedm4) got the same problem with the Forge, 2psi pressure drop, losing 0.5sec on 60-130mph.
I also read it on some french forums, it's not in my head.

I don't know how sensitive are other people, but it was noticeable for me.

Concerning tune, I don't want to compasentate this pressure drop with a custom tune what will make my turbos to work harder to get the same result.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by studio54

Yes, the VRSF 5" HD seems to gather what i am searching.

Regarding my log, I think the Forge FMIC install is ok.

Another user ( Darkiedm4) got the same problem with the Forge, 2psi pressure drop, losing 0.5sec on 60-130mph.
I also read it on some french forums, it's not in my head.

I don't know how sensitive are other people, but it was noticeable for me.

Concerning tune, I don't want to compasentate this pressure drop with a custom tune what will make my turbos to work harder to get the same result.

OK well 2 PSI would be significant. I agree, it sounds like the change needs to be the FMIC.

[hellokitty]

Just bought a 7.5inch race from vrsf.

I'm going to be selling my original vrsf 7" non-hd for cheap soon

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Just bought a 7.5inch race from vrsf.

I'm going to be selling my original vrsf 7" non-hd for cheap soon

The sanctions currently in place on exports from North Korea will likely make it prohibitively expensive...

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by Bimmer_Engineer

The sanctions currently in place on exports from North Korea will likely make it prohibitively expensive...

Meh I can just ship it through Russia lol

[Antetokounmpo]

Originally Posted by HB E90

Installed my VRSF 5" stepped IC. Did some pulls and Wow it exceeded my expectations. Here's a couple logs before and after. IAT's actually drop a bit during the pull and usually end up where they started. Similar ambient and same road and tune. let me know if you see anything else in the logs. Thanks.
Before (stock IC)
https://datazap.me/u/curt/4-8-19-75f...data=3-6-15-22
https://datazap.me/u/curt/4-8-19-75f?log=0&data=3-15-22

After new IC
https://datazap.me/u/curt/new-fmic?log=1&data=3-6-15-22
https://datazap.me/u/curt/new-fmic?log=2&data=3-6-15-22

Holy crap that's impressive. My 7" non-hd is way worse than that on 2+. https://datazap.me/u/heel-toe/fmic-3...data=3-4-14-22

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Antetokounmpo

Holy crap that's impressive. My 7" non-hd is way worse than that on 2+. https://datazap.me/u/heel-toe/fmic-3...data=3-4-14-22

The HD cores are a game changer

[JunkyardDogg]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

I can't find the Amazon link anymore, but this one is the same description.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rev9-BMW-E8...-/351953081029

I have had it a couple of years. I have installed a few and I have never had an issue with the OEM couplers. I have also installed a couple of VSRF 7" and of course with those there is cutting and universal couplers and such to work with. If you get a larger one that require the used of couplers, I highly recommend getting proper quality worm gear clamps to use instead of the cheap T bolts that most ship with their FMIC's.

I have had this one a couple of years, no issues. I will be going with something larger when I install the PS2.

Is this the one you got?
https://www.amazon.com/Front-Mount-I...ustomerReviews

How was install? I have a 335is with ER charge pipe

[Bimmer_Engineer]

Originally Posted by JunkyardDogg

Is this the one you got?
https://www.amazon.com/Front-Mount-I...ustomerReviews

How was install? I have a 335is with ER charge pipe

I have that one on a 2007 e90 335...install was fine. I had a little piece of plastic on my radiator that had to come out and I ended up taking off the bumper cover to get it...would’ve been much easier to just take the cover off to start.

Some people complain about getting the hoses back on the couplings but I didn’t struggle with that...I hooked up the hoses first then jacked the intercooler into place...

That looks like a good price too...

[gungriffin]

Does anyone have the VRSF 7" HD in stock? It is the IC that I want to go with, but it is saying that it will not ship until 8/31. That is a long time to wait...https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-7-fron...2-e90-e92.html

Any suggestions about alternate ICs if the VRSF is unavailable? I was ideally looking to be at about $500 for the IC and the connectors. The Burger Race IC looks good, but it seems like people say that the VRSF 7" HD is the better option. Would anyone reading agree with this? It seems like the BMS is a Phoenix Racing IC. Is the BMS Race IC also an HD intercooler? It seems like going with an IC that has larger connectors than stock is a positive?
BMS IC I am considering:
https://www.burgertuning.com/collect...nt-intercooler

I want to start with an intake, DP, CP and IC. I will also add the inlets at some point. E85 is available near me so I will also likely do an e85 blend tune. At some point in the future, I could see doing a better fuel pump and inlets. I don't plan to do anything to the turbos at the moment. That might change if the turbos were to need to be replaced.

I appreciate any help. At the moment, it feels a bit like paralysis by analysis... I have done some reading, but now it is just pulling the trigger.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by gungriffin

Does anyone have the VRSF 7" HD in stock? It is the IC that I want to go with, but it is saying that it will not ship until 8/31. That is a long time to wait...https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-7-fron...2-e90-e92.html

Any suggestions about alternate ICs if the VRSF is unavailable? I was ideally looking to be at about $500 for the IC and the connectors. The Burger Race IC looks good, but it seems like people say that the VRSF 7" HD is the better option. Would anyone reading agree with this? It seems like the BMS is a Phoenix Racing IC. Is the BMS Race IC also an HD intercooler? It seems like going with an IC that has larger connectors than stock is a positive?
BMS IC I am considering:
https://www.burgertuning.com/collect...nt-intercooler

I want to start with an intake, DP, CP and IC. I will also add the inlets at some point. E85 is available near me so I will also likely do an e85 blend tune. At some point in the future, I could see doing a better fuel pump and inlets. I don't plan to do anything to the turbos at the moment. That might change if the turbos were to need to be replaced.

I appreciate any help. At the moment, it feels a bit like paralysis by analysis... I have done some reading, but now it is just pulling the trigger.

Hi,
You wont find it used, i recommend placing a pre-order with your favorite vendor and waiting. It is worth the wait