[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by cb1111

If you notice any issues with oil in 9000 miles then you really must be using maple syrup.

Lubrication issues don't rear their ugly heads until much later, so your comparison is worthless.

Your coprorate product pitch is whats useless. At 9,000 miles, my oil analyzer had the oil as ok, and it was holding temps steady at 245 F on 90 degree highway commutes.

Originally Posted by cb1111

What I do know is that BMW and the oil manufacturers spent millions on developing standards and lubricants to meet to meet those standards. To say "I know better" is a bit foolish.

What is stamped right under the emblem of my hood is a BWM oil part number that corresponds to European Castrol Edge 5W30. If your going by BMWUSA's recommendations, and you want to only use LLO1+ oil, then you certainly have many choices.

Originally Posted by cb1111

If you choose to disregard the requirements set forth by BMW (or any manufacturer) then feel free to do so - just don't promote the use of unapproved lubricants as if were OK.

You don't know that these "unapproved" oil isn't ok, because those oil manufacturers have not payed BMW for their certification. I don't endorse the use of popular USA oil like royal purple or redline, but your a fool to think that at $12+/quart, they are inferior to cheap crap like mobil 1 0W40, or castrol 0W30.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Once again oil nonsense based on opinion not fact. The cost of an oil tells you zero about how it lubricates your engine. A UOA tells you nothing about how an oil lubricates your engine. A UOA tells you ONLY if the oil is still acceptable for service and what contaminants are present in the oil. It does NOT tell you how well the oil performs in your engine, nor does a MSDS nor does where the oil is made or what the brand is or what someone on a website believes is an acceptable oil.

ok, and let me guess, that despite the links I provided, the oil analyzer on your car is useless too, and tells you nothing about lubrication, but your BMW LL tests do, even though you know nothing about the test, itself. Which engine was used, what testing sequence, etc.

Originally Posted by TrackRat

People are free to use whatever oil they want as long as they do not care about their new vehicle warranty which requires a very specific oil. For 2006 onward BMW models sold in the U.S. that is oil spec LL-01 not LL-04. BMW specifically tells you NOT to run LL-04 oils in U.S. gas engines. Running a non LL-01 oil in your BMW gas engine in the U.S. is very likely to lead to increased engine wear and in extreme situations where the oil chemistry is very wrong for your engine, you could experience engine failure.

Then why in GODS NAME are they the only european car manufacturers with that mandate? Also no LL04 oil manufacturer has a warning against this. Could it be that BMWNA's parters: Mobil, and Castrol, don't have LL04 approved oils to sell in the USA?

Originally Posted by TrackRat

As long as you're willing to take personal responsibility for your actions, you're free to use whatever oil makes you happy - even if it may not be the oil that makes your engine happy.

You have no factual evidence whatsoever to base this on. E46 3 series were also told to use LL01 approved oil. Today go on the forum, and most of them use redline oils. Yes redline, in their european engines, with NO ISSUES whatsoever.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

At 9,000 miles, my oil analyzer had the oil as ok, .

Hey Turkey,

What was your TBN and TAN at 9k miles? Those are the only things that really matter for the gassers in the U.S. who are using LL04.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

I don't endorse the use of popular USA oil like royal purple or redline, but your a fool to think that at $12+/quart, they are inferior to cheap crap like mobil 1 0W40, or castrol 0W30.

are you serious dude?

i have 28 bottles of Mobil 1 0W40 and 14 bottles of Castrol 0W30 sitting in my garage......

and by all means....they're not cheap!(except when on sale)


Did you mean cheap as inexpensive.....or cheap as

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

Did you mean cheap as inexpensive.....or cheap as

He means cheap as in "not worth crapola". Now UOA's for both products have been outstanding, so I'm not sure where he's getting that they're not well formulated motor oils.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by Socom

He means cheap as in "not worth crapola". Now UOA's for both products have been outstanding, so I'm not sure where he's getting that they're not well formulated motor oils.

TB loves to post stuff without a shred of evidence to back up his wild allegations.

The FACT is that there are a handful of oils that we know meet BMWs standards because they have been tested.

In order to feel important, he touts his own experience and tries to convince others that he knows more than BMW.

I'm sure that there are other oils out there that meet the standard - but we won't know since they haven't been tested - and nobody here on this board has the wherewithal to prove otherwise.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

People are free to use whatever oil they want as long as they do not care about their new vehicle warranty which requires a very specific oil. For 2006 onward BMW models sold in the U.S. that is oil spec LL-01 not LL-04. BMW specifically tells you NOT to run LL-04 oils in U.S. gas engines. Running a non LL-01 oil in your BMW gas engine in the U.S. is very likely to lead to increased engine wear and in extreme situations where the oil chemistry is very wrong for your engine, you could experience engine failure.

BMW LL01- a spec made in the year 2001, hence the numbers. This was the year that BMW started introducing double vanous technology. BMW LL01 oils are approved for long drain intervals in engines with DV. So this must mean that engines produced almost a decade later, with 10 cylinders, or twin turbo chargers, should apply back to this spec, from 2001, when they weren't being produced.

BMW LL04- a spec made in the year 2004, stemming from increased anti-pollution laws. These oils are low in Sulphated Ash, and phosphorus to be milder to diesel particulate filters. BMW LL04 engines also conform to the same standards as BMW LL01.

We clearly need BMW LL06+ specifications.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Sorry but your POV is simply not supported. You can't tell the lubricating performance of an oil in your engine from an MSDS sheet nor a UOA and you can't use LL-04 approved oil in U.S. BMW gas engines and maintain your warranty.

What you can tell from the MSDS, is what the base oil consists of. Its either synthetic- PAO BASED, or Pseudo synthetic- MINERAL OIL BASED. Now why worry about the base oil of your BMWNA recommended M1 0W40? Well because 70% of it, is mineral oil. Thats right 70% of Crap 1 0W40 is mineral oil, i.e, not synthetic, i.e, not man made in a lab! Base oils like that CRACK, after sometime, causing the oil to shear (a well known problem with crap 1). Shearing in oil, leads to metal on metal contact. Why else do you think BMW germany included oil analyzers on these cars (N54)? Also, raise your hood, and check the area directly underneath the emblem. You will see BMW germany's part number for European only, PAO BASED: Castrol Edge 5W30. Which is why it states on the engine cover: BMW recommends castrol. Use of pseudo synthetic M1 0W40, or autozone- Castrol 0W30 is at your own risk, hence the BMWNA website's, misleading recommendation.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Turkey -

You seem very confused between BMW oils specs and trying to use MSDS sheets and UOA data to determine the lubrication properties of engine oils... which they can't.

Since oil analysis is useless, why does the car come with an oil analyzer? or do you want me to post links to the Edmunds article on vehicle oil analyzers again?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

It doesn't matter when the oil spec originated it matters what oil is best for the engine in use. .

Then why can't we use BMW LL98 oil?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Because BMW tells you that LL-01 is the required oil for use in BMW gas engines in the U.S. from 2006 onward.

Which BMW? BMWNA, or BMWGermany? slight difference, you know. One built the car, the other one distributes it. Also, one's stupid, and one's not. I've give you two free guesses.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

The reason oil companies specify the correct oil for the application is because they conduct extensive engine oil testing to objectively determine the engines needs. That testing is what the oil test sequece such as the LL-01 or LL-04 is all about.

Who conducted these tests? BMW North America, or BMW Germany? There is no reference to this BMW LL specification anywhere in the service manuals, or anywhere on the vehicle. Instead, we have an actually oil part number, written on the vehicles themselves, after they are manufactured in germany. Each car/engine, has a different dealership synthetic oil part number. Don't think that castrol 0W30 available at autozone is the same as European Castrol EDGE 5W30, available at BMW dealerships.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Actually no car maker specifies what oil stock must be used to meet a specific oil specification because that isn't the important aspect of the oil specifications. The oil specifications are about the oils' PERFORMANCE in the engine. The car maker doesn't care what oil stock you use as long as the oil delivers the required lubrication performance.

We've been through all of this before but you refuse to accept reality. Repeating the same worn, baseless arguments doesn't change reality. If car makers felt it was important to use a specific oil stock then they would make that part of their oil specification. No car maker that I know of does this.

DO YOU WANT ME TO MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID RIGHT NOW, BY GOING OUT SIDE, AND SNAPPING A QUICK PICTURE OF THE OIL PART NUMBER BMW GERAMANY ETCHED ON MY 335I, OR WILL YOU CONCEED DEFEATE?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

DO YOU WANT ME TO MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID RIGHT NOW, BY GOING OUT SIDE, AND SNAPPING A QUICK PICTURE OF THE OIL PART NUMBER BMW GERAMANY ETCHED ON MY 335I, OR WILL YOU CONCEED DEFEATE?

Whether it's there or not is immaterial because we're not in Germany and you can't buy Edge RS in the US.

IIRC my wifes Mercedes says use 229.51 but behold MBUSA pulled that recommendation because they worry about the same thing that BMW does for the US maket. Now only MB diesels get the 229.51. Gassers get 229.50 (ex M1 0w-40). So clearly it's not BMWNA corp schenegins(sp?)

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by 06E90Rostik

(As a side note I never bought oil online, it arrived very well packed and padded) Individual containers are sealed in a tough plastic bags to avoid oil spills (take that BP )

BP no longer recommends recycling their oil. If you are replacing BP oil, you can just go to the nearest ocean and dump it.

[Chriztofor]

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

BP no longer recommends recycling their oil. If you are replacing BP oil, you can just go to the nearest ocean and dump it.

[NaTuReB0Y]

fuck it.....i'm using Mobil 1 0W40 or Castrol 0W30

if you ain't down with that....I got two words for you.......

[ENINTY]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton. I just use the BMW 5W-30 oil recommended by BMW and sold at every BMW dealer in the US. I get my kit from Tischer for $63 shipped to my house. I put the new oil in my engine after I drain the old oil out and change the filter on the CBS recommended schedule, and wahla, after 113,000 miles my engine runs just as good as the day my car was delivered and it still only consumes barely a quart every 17,000 miles...

Then I go do other shit like cut the grass, fix stuff, go out to dinner, enjoy a few beers on the front porch and live my life. You guys take this oil crap WAAAAAYYYYY too seriously.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

Maybe I'm just a simpleton. ....

Then I go do other shit like cut the grass, fix stuff, go out to dinner, enjoy a few beers on the front porch and live my life. You guys take this oil crap WAAAAAYYYYY too seriously.

It just pulls you in when you start researching what goes into the formulations of motor oil.

[06E90Rostik]

Oh man, what have I started...

[ENINTY]

I use my time to research the formulations of various microbrews; it's at least something you can actually test yourself and the results are quite enjoyable.

To each his own, my friend...