[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by alcook

I've done a few explanatory write ups on compressor stall (knowing guys who've installed Anti-lag), but waxing lyrical about 'compressor stall' rather than 'wastegate chatter' doesn't really have the same effect....

Thats what I meant mate, exactly!! HAHA

[foxy-367]

Originally Posted by Black Sapphire

+1
I grab the chance to drive as many different cars as possible, if you don't how can you properly compare the differences.
Luckily through work, friends and colleagues I've had the chance to drive a good selection of cars over the years.

+2 Can't beat giving someone elses car a thrashing

I drove a well specced Evo 8 12 months back 500bhp 300-400lbft of torque from memory, dual plate clutch racing brakes, antilag, it was the absolute gonads. It handled very well and absolutely catapulted you into the straight. I would have given a piece of my liver to have it as a 2nd car as the mate of mine had. The only downside to it was the meaty exhaust and the antilag and dump valve wooshing away had everyone turning and staring at you and not always in the young lad jealousy way either it got a bit much tbh.

But you have to say the Japanese know how to build fast cars for bottom dollar, look at the new Skyline GTR absolutely wipes the floor with more expensive and exotic motors. Once again though as the discussions over a pint or two with the lads have gone previously. Yes it might be quick but it just doesn't have the kudos of say a Porsche Turbo or an Aston Martin Vantage and that is half the problem.

[SiKkBaSs]

Originally Posted by foxy-367

Yes it might be quick but it just doesn't have the kudos of say a Porsche Turbo or an Aston Martin Vantage and that is half the problem.

This is what I meant by baller status

[foxy-367]

Bet you never thought posting an old fifth gear video could spark such discussion though did you?!?!?!?

[alcook]

That's what I love about car forums like this.... good, solid, tough and opinionated debate, that always ends up well.... on here anyway..

Brilliant stuff.

[beemerbird]

There's a bloke regularly drives up our street in a red Scooby which has a very distinctive 'whoosing' sound which I like actually.

Hate being totally ignorant about these things, but does this mean that his car has been 'tinkered' with to coin a phrase to produce the sound effects?

[alcook]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

There's a bloke regularly drives up our street in a red Scooby which has a very distinctive 'whoosing' sound which I like actually.

Hate being totally ignorant about these things, but does this mean that his car has been 'tinkered' with to coin a phrase to produce the sound effects?

The whoosh is his dump or blow of valve. Most (if not all) Turbo's have them. It's just that the majority are recirculating DV's and are hidden inside the engine recirculating the excess pressure that they release. Meaning you can barely hear them venting.

The device releases turbine pressure to aid (in a limited way) the turbine in keeping its 70,000 or RPM. If the turbine slows down, then the time taken for it to spin back up is known as 'lag'. Manufacturers will spend a lot of money ensuring there's no lag. In the 335d for example, they'll use two turbos, one smaller and one bigger, to ensure a good level of boost from low to high reves. The smaller one kicks in low down, the bigger one higher up.

The whoosh you hear is the DV 'venting to air' (DTA). It makes no difference to the power. Chav's like them for the noise. I personally think DTA valves are like racing stripes...

My second scoob had one that kicked off at really low boost and pissed me off no end as it was embarrassing... so I changed the spring rate to ensure it only happened at higher boost.

The anti-lag I mentioned earlier is one way rally teams maintain high boost. They effectively force the turbo to spin at max boost all the time... The sound effects and flame spitting are amazing as the pressure vents through the exhaust and ignites the unburned fuel vapour..... amazing on a rally car. Doing this on a road car (which you can), means high turbo wear and shocking MPG... possibly a visit from the Police and some interesting hand gestures as you pop out for a quiet drive and try and get through a quiet village.. quietly..

Try this....

On an E34:

**it does get more complex with blade stall and Idle anti-lag etc... but it's effectively all about the noise and sounding cool.

[dxb335d]

My fiesta turbo with just an air filter will ''waste gate chatter'' all day long. Sounds awesome, would sound shit on a Porky T or 335i in my opinion though as would a dump vaLVE.

But a highly highly tuned one will make its own noises and is acceptable as it is what it is a highly ''tuned motor''...

But on lightly modded road cars like 997 turbos and 335i's it would sound shocking. Its expected on cossies and jap motors etc.

[beemerbird]

Interesting vids and write-up. I've seen some Porka's racing with the old flame thrower effect out of the exhaust. Totally agree though time and place for everything.

Do most people realise that you shouldn't rev a turbo engine and suddenly switch it off, turbines spinning and lack of oil supply etc. Seen some folks doing this and cringed tbh.

[alcook]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Do most people realise that you shouldn't rev a turbo engine and suddenly switch it off, turbines spinning and lack of oil supply etc. Seen some folks doing this and cringed tbh.

Less so, if not at all, in modern cars. Water cooling means there's enough residual circulation (partly caused by the water boiling) for the temperature not to go high enough to cause damage. These devices are designed to cope with a little flexibility in temperature variation.

Daily / normal use and driving means you can usually turn them straight off. No throttle blipping!

Of course, coming straight off a track or high speed run and instantly turning off the engine won't be good as residual temperatures will be very high and you could cook the (coke) the oil; causing heat damage to the bearings etc and introducing contaminants to the oil.

But again, a 30 second pause or simply the last 1/2 mile or few hundred yards to your stop, done at normal speeds, will mean you're good to go.

Diesels operate at lower temperatures so idling is less of an issue.

[beemerbird]

That's what I meant ie. blipping the throttle and switching off. I certainly don't leave mine idling after normal running, however immediately after a spirited drive I would allow the turbos to spool down for a few seconds or as you say drive normally so to speak. Last Saturday funningly enough this came to pass after Tony and I found some open road lol.

I've asked the OPC about this and they said it's far less of a problem with todays modern engines and associated technology.

[dxb335d]

I think you will find blipping the throttle to 150-1700 at idle will not make the turbo spool up whatsover.. At idle you need high RPM and lots of throttle to make the turbo spool up as its not under load.

Its not advisable to blip and shut down as you ''can'' cause borewash.

[alcook]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

I think you will find blipping the throttle to 150-1700 at idle will not make the turbo spool up whatsover.. At idle you need high RPM and lots of throttle to make the turbo spool up as its not under load.

Its not advisable to blip and shut down as you ''can'' cause borewash.

Agreed. But blipping is for another thread...

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Its not advisable to blip and shut down as you ''can'' cause borewash.

Have you ever experienced that ?

This will not occur on modern cars with an ECU (more so with fly-by-wire setups), they will not allow that to happen by cutting fuel - not so much to avoid bore wash but more to prevent unburnt fuel contaminating catalysts.

You are very unlikely to get any bore wash with just blipping your throttle as you shut down even with a brace of carbs.

Icing up corrector jets on the other hand ....

D.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Guys, set up a rolling start race then, cuz i still think the M3 would have it licked. An M6 or M5, rolling would walk it.

I really don't understand your logic here????

Lets put things into perspective;

Litchfield T25

415BHP/420ft/lb
0-60 3.7 secs
0-100 8.7 secs

307BHP per ton

E90 BMW M3 - figures quoted as tested by EVO

414BHP/295ft/lb
0-60 4.9 secs
0-100 10.7 secs

250BHP per ton

BMW M6 - figures quoted and tested by EVO

500BHP/383ft/lb
0-60 4.8 secs
0-100 10 secs

297BHP per ton

I have highlighted the top figures, which bar the BHP, the Litchfield comes tops. Even on the track, the previous quoted figures the litchfield is faster than the M3, its a shame that the M6 doesn't have a quoted time

In ALL situations, the T25, on paper, would win, against the M3, and by some margin, the M6 would be closer, but is still a good second behind to 100. Allowing a 10% waiver either way for the figures quoted by EVO then the M6 is just about on it, however the same can then be said of the T25, and maybe this could be faster than the figures quoted.

I advise you to actually go out in a 400+BHP scooby or similar, they are devastatingly fast in all situations.

Just my tuppence, but I just don't see how an M6 will walk it, close, yes, but the Litfield would still win.

Maybe we should write into Top Gear or 5th gear and get a shoot out to settle it properly, but from where I am sitting its a one horse race

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

I think you will find blipping the throttle to 150-1700 at idle will not make the turbo spool up whatsover

Meant revving the balls out of the engine and then switching off...........seen it done a few times. Something you NEVER did years ago with turbo engines.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Oli

I really don't understand your logic here????

Lets put things into perspective;

Litchfield T25

415BHP/420ft/lb
0-60 3.7 secs
0-100 8.7 secs

307BHP per ton

E90 BMW M3 - figures quoted as tested by EVO

414BHP/295ft/lb
0-60 4.9 secs
0-100 10.7 secs

250BHP per ton

BMW M6 - figures quoted and tested by EVO

500BHP/383ft/lb
0-60 4.8 secs
0-100 10 secs

297BHP per ton

I have highlighted the top figures, which bar the BHP, the Litchfield comes tops. Even on the track, the previous quoted figures the litchfield is faster than the M3, its a shame that the M6 doesn't have a quoted time

In ALL situations, the T25, on paper, would win, against the M3, and by some margin, the M6 would be closer, but is still a good second behind to 100. Allowing a 10% waiver either way for the figures quoted by EVO then the M6 is just about on it, however the same can then be said of the T25, and maybe this could be faster than the figures quoted.

I advise you to actually go out in a 400+BHP scooby or similar, they are devastatingly fast in all situations.

Just my tuppence, but I just don't see how an M6 will walk it, close, yes, but the Litfield would still win.

Maybe we should write into Top Gear or 5th gear and get a shoot out to settle it properly, but from where I am sitting its a one horse race

Oli, i was saying ALL ALONG, from a rolling start... Ive already stated Numerous times that from a standing start the subaru wins.


rolling 60mph, a M6 walks away easily from a 480bhp 911 turbo, it would annhilate a 414bhp scoob.

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Have you ever experienced that ?

This will not occur on modern cars with an ECU (more so with fly-by-wire setups), they will not allow that to happen by cutting fuel - not so much to avoid bore wash but more to prevent unburnt fuel contaminating catalysts.

You are very unlikely to get any bore wash with just blipping your throttle as you shut down even with a brace of carbs.

Icing up corrector jets on the other hand ....

D.

ok dave, that may be so

But you must agree, its not the done thing to rev up and shut down before the engine comes back down to idle.

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

rolling 60mph, a M6 walks away easily from a 480bhp 911 turbo, it would annhilate a 414bhp scoob.

I've seen another vid which wasn't done by M5/M6board.com, different drivers and so on and the outcome was not the same. To me it's an overall thing ie. straights, corners, weather conditions, grip and driveability.

Back O/T, the Scooby is going to be very impressive in all the above respects........where it really counts.

[Black Sapphire]

Originally Posted by foxy-367

+2 Can't beat giving someone elses car a thrashing

I drove a well specced Evo 8 12 months back 500bhp 300-400lbft of torque from memory, dual plate clutch racing brakes, antilag, it was the absolute gonads. It handled very well and absolutely catapulted you into the straight. I would have given a piece of my liver to have it as a 2nd car as the mate of mine had. The only downside to it was the meaty exhaust and the antilag and dump valve wooshing away had everyone turning and staring at you and not always in the young lad jealousy way either it got a bit much tbh.

Too true, never been a fan of dump valves, loud exhausts etc.
Mine is standard. Its got the standard prodrive exhaust which gives out a nice rumble but its not too loud.
Even had a the guy hosting a RR I went to recently, try starting the car whilst it was running! there were some loud Imprezas there though to be honest.

Only real mods I'd be looking at would be a re-map.

Originally Posted by Oli

I really don't understand your logic here????

Lets put things into perspective;

Litchfield T25

415BHP/420ft/lb
0-60 3.7 secs
0-100 8.7 secs

307BHP per ton

E90 BMW M3 - figures quoted as tested by EVO

414BHP/295ft/lb
0-60 4.9 secs
0-100 10.7 secs

250BHP per ton

BMW M6 - figures quoted and tested by EVO

500BHP/383ft/lb
0-60 4.8 secs
0-100 10 secs

297BHP per ton

I have highlighted the top figures, which bar the BHP, the Litchfield comes tops. Even on the track, the previous quoted figures the litchfield is faster than the M3, its a shame that the M6 doesn't have a quoted time

In ALL situations, the T25, on paper, would win, against the M3, and by some margin, the M6 would be closer, but is still a good second behind to 100. Allowing a 10% waiver either way for the figures quoted by EVO then the M6 is just about on it, however the same can then be said of the T25, and maybe this could be faster than the figures quoted.

I advise you to actually go out in a 400+BHP scooby or similar, they are devastatingly fast in all situations.

Just my tuppence, but I just don't see how an M6 will walk it, close, yes, but the Litfield would still win.

Maybe we should write into Top Gear or 5th gear and get a shoot out to settle it properly, but from where I am sitting its a one horse race

Yeah but...................

[Oli]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Oli, i was saying ALL ALONG, from a rolling start... Ive already stated Numerous times that from a standing start the subaru wins.


rolling 60mph, a M6 walks away easily from a 480bhp 911 turbo, it would annhilate a 414bhp scoob.

Ha ha, it just doesn't get much better than this......


(white is black.....black is white....white is black................)

[dxb335d]

But also remember a few of us on here with standard 335d, have had encounters with 380bhp-400bhp scoobs/evos and matched them with only 286bhp.

So a 414bhp will run a 414bhp scoob.

Likewise a 500bhp m6 will kill it.

Beemerbird, i am not talking the M5board vids. Im talking about the Drivers republic vid, with chris harris.

Stevie A post it again mate.


Just like a 330bhp ED30 Gti, walks a RS4 rolling which has nearly 100bhp more... Power sappers those 4wd trannies.

[Oli]

As James May would say - Oh Cock

Carl get a grip, why are you the only one here who thinks this, can you ever be wrong?

Have you ever driven a lightweight 400+BHP scoob? Not a standard car that has been toyed with?