[pits200]

E85 is going to be a meth game changer. It will allow people to be smart and not run 90/10 and 80/20 mixes of methanol. If we can get to 40/60 or 50/50 methanol mixes with e85 as the main power catalysts then these fire questions will become a thing of the past... Hopefully

[RnmEvo9]

Meth was a thing of the past when E85 was introduced to the Evo platform. I see the same thing happening here once it catches on.

Good luck to the OP with your ordeal.

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Meth was a thing of the past when E85 was introduced to the Evo platform. I see the same thing happening here once it catches on.

Good luck to the OP with your ordeal.

not for a lot of us who don't have any e85 stations

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Meth was a thing of the past when E85 was introduced to the Evo platform. I see the same thing happening here once it catches on.

Good luck to the OP with your ordeal.

Unfortunately with DI and our fueling system, I don't think a 100% straight E85 setup will be possible but who knows.

Originally Posted by jpsimon

not for a lot of us who don't have any e85 stations

At that point, I would stick to a simple turbo upgrade and pump and if you must have the power for track days then use race gas.

[jpsimon]

Until my car burns down I'll most likely continue to use the WW tank. I've had bad experiences with liquid in the trunk. don't want meth back there.

I only use boost juice which is 49/51 or so

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

not for a lot of us who don't have any e85 stations

Why not consider running Methanol in your gas tank mixed with pump?

M85 was on scene long before E85 was.

Up here in Canada it's cheaper per litre than 94 pump.

Why not run a 20/80 blend of methanol and pump in your gas tank?

[pavo335]

with our fueling system you want to put meth in there

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by pavo335

with our fueling system you want to put meth in there

Methanol and ethanol have very similar properties from what I see.

Most modern fuel systems are already designed to handle a 10% ethanol blend.

Both will attack rubber polymers:

From Wikipedia:

"Methanol and ethanol are also incompatible with some polymers. The alcohol reacts with the polymers causing swelling, and over time the oxygen breaks down the carbon-carbon bonds in the polymer causing a reduction in tensile strength. For the past few decades though, most cars have been designed to tolerate up to 10% ethanol (E10) without problem. This include both fuel system compatibility and lambda compensation of fuel delivery with fuel injection engines featuring closed loop lambda control. In some engines ethanol may degrade some compositions of plastic or rubber fuel delivery components designed for conventional petrol, and also be unable to lambda compensate the fuel properly."

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Methanol and ethanol have very similar properties from what I see.

Most modern fuel systems are already designed to handle a 10% ethanol blend.

yeh not disagreeing with MOST, but BMW is not MOST

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by pavo335

yeh not disagreeing with MOST, but BMW is not MOST

Actually the fuel systems of cars have been designed to be compatible with up to 10% ethanol since the 80's.

Even BMW's

It's in the owner's manual.

Most major gas refiners blend it right in these days.

Quite a few are reporting good results with up to 50% blends of ethanol.

The only worry I have is the longer term effect on the rubber parts/hoses in the fuel system starting to break down over time.

[pavo335]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Actually the fuel systems of cars have been designed to be compatible with up to 10% ethanol since the 80's.

Even BMW's

It's in the owner's manual.

Most major gas refiners blend it right in these days.

Quite a few are reporting good results with up to 50% blends of ethanol.

The only worry I have is the longer term effect on the rubber parts/hoses in the fuel system starting to break down over time.

mm interesting, beacuse my manual says the exact opposite. NO ethanol, in fact even says we must use 98 (which is your 93/4)

[JamesM3M5]

Originally Posted by dsbj

I guess my point is simply this... if you can light a pool of meth with a match, then I would make the statement that the methanol liquid is flammable. That's all. But yes, vapor is much more flammable.

Well, I was saying that because it sounded like some people were going to go off on a tangent and talk about how a fire near the fuel rail would blow up the whole fuel system, or how the whole WW tank would burst into flames. It's not to get nerdy technical, just clarifying that for the most part the liquids need to be vaporized - whether by heat or mechanical means - before you get any kind of explosion.

Back to our regularly scheduled debate, already in progress....

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by pavo335

mm interesting, beacuse my manual says the exact opposite. NO ethanol, in fact even says we must use 98 (which is your 93/4)

You must be in Europe.

Here in N America the owners manual states that fuels containng up to 10% ethanol will not void the warranty.

Almost all fuel in N America is blended with 10% ethanol (except for Shell 91 and maybe a few others) so it stands to reason that the auto manufacturers would have to make their fuel systems compatible.

But this discussion in not about 10% now....is it!

[Quebequer]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

not for a lot of us who don't have any e85 stations

+1

[Quebequer]

If you use boost juice or something below 50/50 mix, there will be no danger. Some winter windshield washer are about that.

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by Quebequer

If you use boost juice or something below 50/50 mix, there will be LESS danger. Some winter windshield washer are about that.

Fixed.

[Velocity26]

A local guy approached me a few weeks ago, he had a 535 that had never had a tune, meth, or ANY mods. He had been having rough idleing issues and the local dealer had been replacing injectors to isolate the problem. One morning he was driving to work and the car started to run rough again at a traffic light and actually stalled. He smelled smoke and, in the time it took him to unbuckle his seat belt and get out, the entire engine compartment was up in flames. The car was a total loss and there was nothing left from the firewall forward.

IMO, it had to have been accelerated by fuel to spread that quickly and violently, since there was no meth involved.

[BavarianBullet]

FWIW I took off my fender liner and peered amd took oix of the ww tank on my 11 335xi. The entire ww tank is sandwiched between the back half of the fender and the fender apron (engine bay). The tank is nowhere near the engine bay itself. I couldnt see any overflow but if it was on the tank and leaked it would have had dripped down on the inner fender and splashshield far from the engine compartment.

The filler tube wraps around the tire/splashshield area and entered the engine bay through a hole in the fender apron. So it's really only in the engine bay maybe 10in to a foot of filler tube. The washer line enters I believe through another hole similar to the filler tube but further back towards the windshield.

I looked into possibly putting another tank somewhere else like the driver's side fender but you must understand that the tank is quite flat and appears anchored in such a way that you'd need to pull the fender to install it. Given the oem one has fittings and pumps on one side that wouldnt fit when reversed, you could not install it to the driver's side easily if at all. Space is very tight in there.

Fires starting under the engine cover are puzzling. Doesnt make sense initially but maybe this perhaps: heat rises. Fires starts on turbo manifold, flames shoot straight up briefly and go out. What is right above the turbo. Engine cover foam. Foam lights and continues to burn after initial short flame from earlier fire. Too far fetched?

I'd believe it was something other than meth if several non ww meth kit users caught fire in same way but so far it appears there is no reliable evidence of that?

OP, sorry for your loss.

For those using ww meth, stay below 50/50 is the best advice so far.

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by BavarianBullet

Fires starting under the engine cover are puzzling. Doesnt make sense initially but maybe this perhaps: heat rises. Fires starts on turbo manifold, flames shoot straight up briefly and go out. What is right above the turbo. Engine cover foam. Foam lights and continues to burn after initial short flame from earlier fire. Too far fetched?

Not far fetched. Actually pretty accurate.

[jpsimon]

foam is only there for sound proofing? perhaps I'll take it off

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by BavarianBullet

FWIW I took off my fender liner and peered amd took oix of the ww tank on my 11 335xi. The entire ww tank is sandwiched between the back half of the fender and the fender apron (engine bay). The tank is nowhere near the engine bay itself. I couldnt see any overflow but if it was on the tank and leaked it would have had dripped down on the inner fender and splashshield far from the engine compartment.

The filler tube wraps around the tire/splashshield area and entered the engine bay through a hole in the fender apron. So it's really only in the engine bay maybe 10in to a foot of filler tube. The washer line enters I believe through another hole similar to the filler tube but further back towards the windshield.

this is spot on, it'll pool away from the engine compartment near the front and outer portion of the passenger side footwell.

Fires starting under the engine cover are puzzling. Doesnt make sense initially but maybe this perhaps: heat rises. Fires starts on turbo manifold, flames shoot straight up briefly and go out. What is right above the turbo. Engine cover foam. Foam lights and continues to burn after initial short flame from earlier fire. Too far fetched?

no, it's pretty spot on what happens in these engine fires I've read about on here, with and without WW meth installation. The design of the WW tank is pretty isolated and protected by a metal firewall. I can believe of improperly sealed WW caps letting vapors or liquids to escape due to a clogging OEM vent hose.

For those using ww meth, stay below 50/50 is the best advice so far.

+1, boost juice 49/51 mix is plenty enough for decent power

Originally Posted by jpsimon

foam is only there for sound proofing? perhaps I'll take it off

Yes the foam is an acoustic damper, I took mine off over the weekend, I haven't noticed a change (increase) in noise but i'm sure a measuring device would argue with my ear.

[nitehawk]

OP, I know you were low on meth but what concentration of meth did you have in the tank?