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      02-08-2019, 01:45 PM   #7173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly View Post
Yeah thanks! I realized later after I posted, but I knew that the arking time is correlated to the temperature of the the spark and the intensity of the flame front delivered. All of these factors end up explaining why Spark Gap might matter in a Knock scenario.

I really like the image, it really helps to visualize!
If you read the whitepaper that picture is for Stoich conditions at 1200rpm. I crunched some numbers and came up with effectively 14* of rotation difference between a gap of .039" and .055" at 1200rpm (basically idle). Seems like a BIG difference due to spark plug gap.

However, if you keep reading there is another picture which shows the results of changing spark plug gap during rich conditions (like when under load). The difference is negligible.

Quote:
For rich condition of φ = 1.2 the flame kernel growth is not affected by the spark plug gap especially for gaps of 1.2 mm and 1.4 mm.
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      02-08-2019, 02:38 PM   #7174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
If you read the whitepaper that picture is for Stoich conditions at 1200rpm. I crunched some numbers and came up with effectively 14* of rotation difference between a gap of .039" and .055" at 1200rpm (basically idle). Seems like a BIG difference due to spark plug gap.

However, if you keep reading there is another picture which shows the results of changing spark plug gap during rich conditions (like when under load). The difference is negligible.
Hmmm interesting how in a rich state, the kernel is almost not affected.

Would it be due to the fact that the extra gasoline being ignited is the main factor creating the flame front and thus overshadowing the effect of the spark's temperature (which is related to its gap)?

That scientific report clears a lot of questions I had.
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      02-08-2019, 03:11 PM   #7175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTheBadTheUgly View Post
Hmmm interesting how in a rich state, the kernel is almost not affected.

Would it be due to the fact that the extra gasoline being ignited is the main factor creating the flame front and thus overshadowing the effect of the spark's temperature (which is related to its gap)?

That scientific report clears a lot of questions I had.
Really? It's as clear as mud to me. I think they are concluding that is has more to do with how tightly packed the molecules of fuel are rather than anything to do with the spark produced itself. Sorry for confusing you with the word "hotter."

As Justin pointed out, these cars are multi-spark which I would think makes spark plug gap even more inconsequential regardless of stoich/rich operation.
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Last edited by bbnks2; 02-08-2019 at 03:37 PM.
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      02-08-2019, 04:57 PM   #7176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Really? It's as clear as mud to me. I think they are concluding that is has more to do with how tightly packed the molecules of fuel are rather than anything to do with the spark produced itself. Sorry for confusing you with the word "hotter."

As Justin pointed out, these cars are multi-spark which I would think makes spark plug gap even more inconsequential regardless of stoich/rich operation.
Yep I definitely understand what you are talking about now, but the way I was also looking at it is more of a thermodynamics approach.

I mean you have the same volume for your piston/cylinder system, but when the engine is under load (running rich) the ratio of the mass of fuel vs mass of air is higher than when you are in idle. This then joins back a bit to your point, where the fact that you have more fuel in the same volume at high pressure means that the molecules will be more compacted. So what will be more important and predominant is the dissipation of heat and the combustion of these particles rather than the heat generated and started by the spark.

Now that you cleared it up a bit for me I think I got to understand it a bit more unless I am really not on it. The problem is that I am trying to link the factors and compare them while maybe I shouldn't because they are independent ...
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      02-09-2019, 12:10 AM   #7177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92TiAg335i View Post
So then what should i gap my new NGK 97506 on a FBO stock turbo n55 PWG?

I like to run e85 once a month, but mainly daily on straight 93.

Thanks in advance.
first thing is, im not sure who keeps recommending colder plugs for stock turbo and honestly anything under like 600whp. You really should be sticking with OEM heat range, whether its the OEM bosch plugs or the the NGK 95770.

But to answer your question about what your gap should be. You should generally run the largest gap possible for the setup to where blowout (failure of the spark to jump the gap). This i have said to NUMEROUS people as well.

But the smallest gap i ever tell people that are having ignition issues is .022.
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      02-09-2019, 12:20 AM   #7178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by E92TiAg335i View Post
So then what should i gap my new NGK 97506 on a FBO stock turbo n55 PWG?

I like to run e85 once a month, but mainly daily on straight 93.

Thanks in advance.
first thing is, im not sure who keeps recommending colder plugs for stock turbo and honestly anything under like 600whp. You really should be sticking with OEM heat range, whether its the OEM bosch plugs or the the NGK 95770.

But to answer your question about what your gap should be. You should generally run the largest gap possible for the setup to where blowout (failure of the spark to jump the gap). This i have said to NUMEROUS people as well.

But the smallest gap i ever tell people that are having ignition issues is .022.
Well, i screwed up and ordered these plugs...

No going back... need this car's maintenance done this Monday as I'm starting an 80 mile commute.

So I should gap them to 0.022?

Just need to know.

I must keep these as this is what I ordered (for cheap) with no return policy.
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      02-11-2019, 11:46 AM   #7179
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Is there a way to downgrade the MHD version on the android device and go back to the beta stage. Ever since upgrading to version software MHD I no longer get burbles while parked. Before I would hear the little flap in the exhaust open then I step on the gas and it would work perfectly fine && now it doesn't.
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      02-11-2019, 02:03 PM   #7180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier1228 View Post
Is there a way to downgrade the MHD version on the android device and go back to the beta stage. Ever since upgrading to version software MHD I no longer get burbles while parked. Before I would hear the little flap in the exhaust open then I step on the gas and it would work perfectly fine && now it doesn't.
I've noticed the same thing with my car. I've had my car parked since Oct and now I barely notice it when I take it out for a quick spin around the block. Possibly needs time to break in again?
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      02-11-2019, 06:21 PM   #7181
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https://datazap.me/u/cyruz143/idle-f...0&data=2-12-13

Can someone take a quick look at my rail pressure at idle. Got two shadow codes that are generally for the HPFP. 2BDE and 2BF0. Car runs fine but seems a bit rough on idle and cold starts. Looks like it's getting way too much pressure...

This is from warm idle, if I blip the throttle it resets for a bit. Will do a log of cold start tomorrow.
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      02-11-2019, 06:46 PM   #7182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyruz143 View Post
https://datazap.me/u/cyruz143/idle-f...0&data=2-12-13

Can someone take a quick look at my rail pressure at idle. Got two shadow codes that are generally for the HPFP. 2BDE and 2BF0. Car runs fine but seems a bit rough on idle and cold starts. Looks like it's getting way too much pressure...

This is from warm idle, if I blip the throttle it resets for a bit. Will do a log of cold start tomorrow.
Just FYI

The rail oscillation is not normal. The higher pressure during cold start is normal. The oscillation could be a symptom not the cause. Shadow codes are common and not necessarily a cause for concern of HPFP issues.
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      02-11-2019, 06:51 PM   #7183
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Well, I have had those codes before my engine blew, so let's proceed with caution is my advice
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      02-11-2019, 08:18 PM   #7184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier1228 View Post
Is there a way to downgrade the MHD version on the android device and go back to the beta stage. Ever since upgrading to version software MHD I no longer get burbles while parked. Before I would hear the little flap in the exhaust open then I step on the gas and it would work perfectly fine && now it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeinBMW View Post
I've noticed the same thing with my car. I've had my car parked since Oct and now I barely notice it when I take it out for a quick spin around the block. Possibly needs time to break in again?

is the car warm? have you driven a few miles? are your flash option settings correct for idle burble?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyruz143 View Post
https://datazap.me/u/cyruz143/idle-f...0&data=2-12-13

Can someone take a quick look at my rail pressure at idle. Got two shadow codes that are generally for the HPFP. 2BDE and 2BF0. Car runs fine but seems a bit rough on idle and cold starts. Looks like it's getting way too much pressure...

This is from warm idle, if I blip the throttle it resets for a bit. Will do a log of cold start tomorrow.

try resetting the HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM adaptation. High rail pressure at idle periodically is normal. Its for emissions.
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      02-12-2019, 04:43 AM   #7185
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Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
try resetting the HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM adaptation. High rail pressure at idle periodically is normal. Its for emissions.
Will do, thanks!
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      02-12-2019, 01:21 PM   #7186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier1228 View Post
Is there a way to downgrade the MHD version on the android device and go back to the beta stage. Ever since upgrading to version software MHD I no longer get burbles while parked. Before I would hear the little flap in the exhaust open then I step on the gas and it would work perfectly fine && now it doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeinBMW View Post
I've noticed the same thing with my car. I've had my car parked since Oct and now I barely notice it when I take it out for a quick spin around the block. Possibly needs time to break in again?

is the car warm? have you driven a few miles? are your flash option settings correct for idle burble?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyruz143 View Post
https://datazap.me/u/cyruz143/idle-fuel-pressure?log=0&data=2-12-13

Can someone take a quick look at my rail pressure at idle. Got two shadow codes that are generally for the HPFP. 2BDE and 2BF0. Car runs fine but seems a bit rough on idle and cold starts. Looks like it's getting way too much pressure...

This is from warm idle, if I blip the throttle it resets for a bit. Will do a log of cold start tomorrow.

try resetting the HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM adaptation. High rail pressure at idle periodically is normal. Its for emissions.
Yes car is warm. Driven about 50miles. Burble settings 1.7 sec soft, speed limit 0, rpm limit 1600
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      02-15-2019, 09:27 AM   #7187
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MHD UPDATE IS LIVE:

1.57
- Added XDi pumps support for late E series as flash option.
- Added an e50 maps for N55s with the N54 hpfp (models till 3-2012)
- All maps updated to 1.54 (Valvetronic changes for better idle, part throttle and transient boost response)
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      02-15-2019, 10:39 AM   #7188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
MHD UPDATE IS LIVE:

1.57
- Added XDi pumps support for late E series as flash option.
- Added an e50 maps for N55s with the N54 hpfp (models till 3-2012)
- All maps updated to 1.54 (Valvetronic changes for better idle, part throttle and transient boost response)
Awesome! Are there any fuel system upgrades required to run the e50 map? I thought the e30 map was pushing it already.

EDIT: Oops, guess I should've actually updated the app and looked before I asked this
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      02-15-2019, 11:09 AM   #7189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
MHD UPDATE IS LIVE:

1.57
- Added XDi pumps support for late E series as flash option.
- Added an e50 maps for N55s with the N54 hpfp (models till 3-2012)
- All maps updated to 1.54 (Valvetronic changes for better idle, part throttle and transient boost response)
How does power look with the e50 ots map
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      02-15-2019, 11:50 AM   #7190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
MHD UPDATE IS LIVE:

1.57
- Added XDi pumps support for late E series as flash option.
- Added an e50 maps for N55s with the N54 hpfp (models till 3-2012)
- All maps updated to 1.54 (Valvetronic changes for better idle, part throttle and transient boost response)
Thank you for the update justin

Can you explain a bit more the changes related to the valvetronic and idle. See i never had idle issues. How does it affect us that idle runs good.

As well as this transient boost. You mean less overshoot ?
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      02-15-2019, 02:47 PM   #7191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
MHD UPDATE IS LIVE:

1.57
- Added XDi pumps support for late E series as flash option.
- Added an e50 maps for N55s with the N54 hpfp (models till 3-2012)
- All maps updated to 1.54 (Valvetronic changes for better idle, part throttle and transient boost response)
Yaaay! Thanks for the update and hard work!

Valvetronic changes for better idle?

Do you mean you increased/decrease how much the valve is opened in idle? Would it affect fuel consumption?
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      02-15-2019, 03:28 PM   #7192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Tuning View Post
MHD UPDATE IS LIVE:

1.57
- Added XDi pumps support for late E series as flash option.
- Added an e50 maps for N55s with the N54 hpfp (models till 3-2012)
- All maps updated to 1.54 (Valvetronic changes for better idle, part throttle and transient boost response)
Just drove about 100km on the new map and everything feels great. Dont know if I'm hearing things but the burbles sound a bit more aggressive - not complaining. Other than that, idle stays at exactly 800 rpm, even after a hard drive. Logs look good too
https://datazap.me/u/jmontans/feb-19...27-28-29-30-31

Thanks Justin - cant wait for the startup roar update
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      02-15-2019, 06:28 PM   #7193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmontans View Post
Just drove about 100km on the new map and everything feels great. Dont know if I'm hearing things but the burbles sound a bit more aggressive - not complaining. Other than that, idle stays at exactly 800 rpm, even after a hard drive. Logs look good too
https://datazap.me/u/jmontans/feb-19...27-28-29-30-31

Thanks Justin - cant wait for the startup roar update
Hey dude where are you filling up and ? 93 Octane i see you loaded which gas are you using ?
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      02-15-2019, 06:37 PM   #7194
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Hey dude where are you filling up and ? 93 Octane i see you loaded which gas are you using ?
I always pump 94 from Petro and load the 93 OCT maps - I find there are way less timing corrections with this combo
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