9k Oil Change post-mortem

greenberet123 · 09-08-2018, 06:10 PM

Thanks to the great posts here, I changed the oil on my 2008 E93 for the first t time! Feels great.

Some questions came up while I was doing it, hope to learn about it from folks here.

1. I realized that the plastic cover for my oil pan at the bottom is missing. Is it a big deal? Do I need to install a new one?

2. When I took off the filter, there was a lot of oil in the oil filter housing. I took off as much as I could, but there still seemed to be a bit deep inside (see photo). Is this normal? My car was a little bit tilted, so is that why this happened?

3. Have also posted a photo of my used filter. There are a whole lot of "bends" at the center. Is that normal? I saw that Jiffy Lube has used some filter Made in China, not sure how good it is. Anyway, im doing this oil change after 9k miles so maybe I delayed too much?

4. When I drained all the oil, I only got about 6 quarts out. Is that normal? Shouldn't I have got 7 out?

Images are here: imgur.com/a/yDlihqA
Thanks!

Needbmwpartzz · 09-08-2018, 07:03 PM

Plastic cover missing is no big deal,it's fine the OFH still has a little in it due to the bends in passages.....just sop up with some rags or paper towels to try get dirty oil out as best u can.
Don't use those jiffy lube filters they are junk and may fragment due to poor build quality....use bmw filter or equivalent Mann filter.
It's normal to not get all oil out....the car retains a little.
Enjoy the fresh oils and drive out the funk

Welcome to NBA Jam · 09-08-2018, 07:30 PM

1. It falls off a lot. Not a problem.

2. There's always some old oil left in the housing. You don't have to remove it if you don't want to.

3. I've seen some oil filters bend like that. Mann filters tend not to bend. Stick with those in the future. You can go between 12-15k on oil changes in these cars, depending on your driving style. Use the CBS monitor.

4. There's usually about a liter or more of old oil left in the oil pan and the rest of the system. You'll never get it all out. Oil changes refresh a vast majority of the system, which is the important thing. If you removed 6 liters, fill it with 6 liters and check the oil level. If it's not full, add more.

Efthreeoh · 09-08-2018, 08:16 PM

I'd like to clear some items up here. Not sure what engine you have. I'm assuming an N52.

(1) When you say "the plastic cover for my oil pan", so you mean the large under-side engine cover (belly pan)? If so, it doesn't fall off a lot, it never falls off because it is attached to the chassis by 16 screws (the E93 may have more or less screws). The part is now running over $200 on line. It protects the underside of the engine compartment and helps in fuel economy. The vital part it protects is the wiring for the oil sensor. If it were me, I'd replace it.

(2) When draining the oil make sure it is warm (I do mine when its hot). Have the car level on 4 jackstands. Open the oil fill cap and open the OFH cap before opening the drain plug. This helps drain all the oil from the engine and lets more oil drain from the OFH because it releases the vacuum from the engine block as the oil drains from it. There will always be a few ounces left in the OFH that needs to be removed. A mechanics turkey baster works well to remove the oil from the housing.

(3) If the car is drained when level, it does not leave near 1L of oil in the engine. It leaves only a few ounces in the oil pump and that's it.

(4) Drain the engine, replace the filter and add back in 7 quarts of fresh oil. Do not add in 6 quarts then try to top off the level using the e-dipstick, the e-dipstick does not immediately update the oil level, so you can risk over filling the engine (see my thread on the topic).

(5) As everyone has said, use a MANN HU-816 filter or the BMW OE filter (it is a MANN HU-816). Always replace the O-rings. Any off-brand filters end up buckling, as you witnessed with the Juffy Lube filter. NEVER TAKE A BMW TO JIFFY LUBE! NEVER!!!!

(6) I second the notion that you can safely run extended OCI using the correct OE/OEM oil filter and BMW spec LL-01 oil. I have.

Welcome to NBA Jam · 09-08-2018, 11:25 PM

Between the oil lines, residual oil in motor and components actuated by oil, oil in the oil cooler and lines (if applicable), oil remaining in other lines, and the oil leftover in the sump, I'm willing to bet there's nearly a liter of old oil left in the car.

WallyF · 09-09-2018, 04:53 AM

I believe the missing cover is the small access hatch and not the full cover under the engine compartment. I believe it is part # 51 75 7 140 983 and is around $16 from getbmwparts.com.

I would replace it as it prevents snow and mud from covering the bottom of your transmission.

Wallyf

djh2 · 09-09-2018, 06:49 AM

Another cause of crushed oil filters can be over-torquing the cap. I have seen this with MANN filters prior to purchasing an oil filter cap tool and torquing it properly.

Efthreeoh · 09-09-2018, 08:45 AM

I can only speak to the N52 with a manual transmission because that is the engine I've removed both the top and bottom covers. I have two such engines, a 2006 (no oil cooler) and a 2008 (with oil cooler attached to the OFH). The N52's oil pump is not a conventional design and from what I've read of the design, it has very small cavities to retain any residual oil. I've removed the oil sensor on the N52 and no residual oil came out of the sump other than a few drops. I've removed the oil pan and there was no residual oil in the pan other than oil film on the pan surfaces. I've had the valve cover off and there was hardly any pooling oil in the head; it drains very well into the sump. So I definitely know the N52 holds no large amount of residual oil, and the refill procedure is to add in the full 7 quarts of oil.

While I've never touched a N-series Turbo engine, I'd bet the residual oil in the turbo feed lines and bearing housings is minimal. Heat exchangers look like the hold a lot of liquid, but they don't. Most automotive heat exchangers are made of small-cavity flat-tubing so as to maximize surface area for the best heat extraction efficiency. Large open cavities in heat exchangers are less efficient. While there may be some residual oil in the oil cooling system, I doubt it is 1/7th of the engine capacity. Looking at the parts of the oil cooler for the 335i, I can see where oil will stay in the heat exchanger and lines. This is where the oil obviously would be retained, but I doubt it is more than just a few ounces (I'll guess 10 oz.). I'll check the Bentley shop manual to see if the turbo engine drain/refill procedure is different from the N52; I don't think is. If the refill procedure calls for 7 quarts for the N54/55, then I can't see why an oil drain done correctly (with the vehicle level) would not drain the 7 quarts of oil from the engine and related oil cooling system.

Efthreeoh · 09-09-2018, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djh2

Another cause of crushed oil filters can be over-torquing the cap. I have seen this with MANN filters prior to purchasing an oil filter cap tool and torquing it properly.

No way, the cap would crack and break. I've done 38 oil changes on N52's, all using the MANN HU-816. I've never seen any deterioration of the filter element, even after 18,000-mile oil change intervals (4 in total). The rest of the oil changes up to 220,000 miles were over 16,000 miles each.

The only N52 oil filter element I've seen deformed is the one CarMax used when they changed the oil in my Z4 pre-purchase, which was a Napa aftermarket oil filter element.

djh2 · 09-09-2018, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No way, the cap would crack and break. I've done 38 oil changes on N52's, all using the MANN HU-816. I've never seen any deterioration of the filter element, even after 18,000-mile oil change intervals (4 in total). The rest of the oil changes up to 220,000 miles were over 16,000 miles each.

The only N52 oil filter element I've seen deformed is the one CarMax used when they changed the oil in my Z4 pre-purchase, which was a Napa aftermarket oil filter element.

Let me clarify, I am not suggesting the oil filter cap would be damaged. When I first changed my oil on this car, the cap was on very tight and the filter appeared crushed. Given that the cap doesn’t bottom out to seal, I am hypothesizing that this was the cause. Subsequent changes have not experienced the same damage. In all fairness thinking back on it now, I do not recall if it was a MANN filter

Edit: I think I read your reply incorrectly. It was probably just a poor quality filter.

Efthreeoh · 09-09-2018, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djh2

Let me clarify, I am not suggesting the oil filter cap would be damaged. When I first changed my oil on this car, the cap was on very tight and the filter appeared crushed. Given that the cap doesn’t bottom out to seal, I am hypothesizing that this was the cause. Subsequent changes have not experienced the same damage. In all fairness thinking back on it now, I do not recall if it was a MANN filter

Edit: I think I read your reply incorrectly. It was probably just a poor quality filter.

I could see someone hamfisted enough to possibly crush the MANN filter using too much force to (over) seat it in the OFH cap, which is possibly what happened to your car. But what I have seen is the aftermarket oil filter elements are not correctly sized. The MANN filter costs between $10 - $12 for a single unit, which is priced similarly to the aftermarket filters. Considering the MANN filter was specified by BMW to last to well past 10,000 mile OCIs, there is little need to try and save $2 on the filter element and get something not designed specifically to fit the engine's lubrication system.

I follow this same practice with my GM truck. I always buy a the GM Delco oil filter spec'd for the 5.3L.

My 2 cents.

BimmerNugget · 09-09-2018, 01:12 PM

Mann filter NEVER crush....period!!! Even if the oil filter cap was over tightened, the filter will not crush, the oil filter cap will just crack. That's it.

The reason almost all aftermarket filters crush in an N51/N52 has to do with that little black "lip" or "ring" around the top and bottom of the filter. The filter is slightly too tall for the oil filter housing, thus when it is tightened down it will crush. Mann filters do not have that little plastic lip.

Another reason to use only Mann filters is because of the o-ring. The o-ring that comes with aftermarket filters (even reputable brands like Bosch) are complete garbage. I can attest to this because when I got my car in the summer, i changed the oil with an STP oil filter from Autozone and 4 months later in November, oil started leaking out of the oil filter housing cap.

The shitty STP O-ring was hardened from the cold November weather in Buffalo, NY. Oil was gushing out of the filter cap so fast. I had to get a MANN filter from the dealer and change it out ASAP. When I took the STP filter out, guess what? It was also crushed just like OP's picture.

The bottom line is...MANN HU816x is the only filter you should use on these cars. At $8.50 with free shipping on eBay, there is no reason not to. I actually paid more for my garbage STP filter at autozone than the Mann filter. ($10.99 for STP).

Bali · 09-10-2018, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerNugget

Mann filter NEVER crush....period!!!!

So, you got a Mann crush?

John 070 · 09-10-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

(2) When draining the oil make sure it is warm (I do mine when its hot). Have the car level on 4 jackstands. Open the oil fill cap and open the OFH cap before opening the drain plug. This helps drain all the oil from the engine and lets more oil drain from the OFH because it releases the vacuum from the engine block as the oil drains from it. There will always be a few ounces left in the OFH that needs to be removed. A mechanics turkey baster works well to remove the oil from the housing.

(3) If the car is drained when level, it does not leave near 1L of oil in the engine. It leaves only a few ounces in the oil pump and that's it.

On my DD (Lexus) the trans is auto (I know

) and the tranny is 'sealed.' The indie showed me my car on the lift (multiple times) and said if you want to drain/fill the tranny at home you could, but you're gonna have to have the tranny at the right temp, and get the car level, maybe 4 jack stands, so maybe you just want to have me do it (charges $86). What do I see people doing on the forum? Car is on ramps LOL

Anyway I admit that with the BMW, for the oil, I have it on 2 jack stands not 4....and I switched away from MANN with the Purolator/Mexico deal. I use Hengst and sometimes Mahle.

p.s. on the Lexus indie stated for rear diff, vehicle should be level again, to drain/fill...

John 070 · 09-10-2018, 09:48 AM

I did do something stupid on one of my oil changes, and thought about it 2 days later. I took the filter and installed it in the OFH first, then tightened the cap over it. I couldn't resist, and went back and removed the cap. I don't think I lost any oil at all and the filter came off with the cap. Maybe it doesn't matter...

09-08-2018, 06:10 PM	#1
greenberet123 Private First Class 39 Rep 155 Posts Drives: E93 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	9k Oil Change post-mortem Thanks to the great posts here, I changed the oil on my 2008 E93 for the first t time! Feels great. Some questions came up while I was doing it, hope to learn about it from folks here. 1. I realized that the plastic cover for my oil pan at the bottom is missing. Is it a big deal? Do I need to install a new one? 2. When I took off the filter, there was a lot of oil in the oil filter housing. I took off as much as I could, but there still seemed to be a bit deep inside (see photo). Is this normal? My car was a little bit tilted, so is that why this happened? 3. Have also posted a photo of my used filter. There are a whole lot of "bends" at the center. Is that normal? I saw that Jiffy Lube has used some filter Made in China, not sure how good it is. Anyway, im doing this oil change after 9k miles so maybe I delayed too much? 4. When I drained all the oil, I only got about 6 quarts out. Is that normal? Shouldn't I have got 7 out? Images are here: imgur.com/a/yDlihqA Thanks!
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

09-08-2018, 07:03 PM	#2
Needbmwpartzz Colonel 851 Rep 2,793 Posts Drives: 2009 bmw 328i x-drive Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Kitchener/Waterloo iTrader: (0)	Plastic cover missing is no big deal,it's fine the OFH still has a little in it due to the bends in passages.....just sop up with some rags or paper towels to try get dirty oil out as best u can. Don't use those jiffy lube filters they are junk and may fragment due to poor build quality....use bmw filter or equivalent Mann filter. It's normal to not get all oil out....the car retains a little. Enjoy the fresh oils and drive out the funk
	Appreciate 1 greenberet12338.50 Quote

09-08-2018, 07:30 PM	#3
Welcome to NBA Jam Is it the shoes!? 3884 Rep 5,112 Posts Drives: (Sold) 2011 E92 335i ZMP 6MT Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	1. It falls off a lot. Not a problem. 2. There's always some old oil left in the housing. You don't have to remove it if you don't want to. 3. I've seen some oil filters bend like that. Mann filters tend not to bend. Stick with those in the future. You can go between 12-15k on oil changes in these cars, depending on your driving style. Use the CBS monitor. 4. There's usually about a liter or more of old oil left in the oil pan and the rest of the system. You'll never get it all out. Oil changes refresh a vast majority of the system, which is the important thing. If you removed 6 liters, fill it with 6 liters and check the oil level. If it's not full, add more.
	Appreciate 1 greenberet12338.50 Quote

09-08-2018, 08:16 PM	#4
Efthreeoh General 17278 Rep 18,722 Posts Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	I'd like to clear some items up here. Not sure what engine you have. I'm assuming an N52. (1) When you say "the plastic cover for my oil pan", so you mean the large under-side engine cover (belly pan)? If so, it doesn't fall off a lot, it never falls off because it is attached to the chassis by 16 screws (the E93 may have more or less screws). The part is now running over $200 on line. It protects the underside of the engine compartment and helps in fuel economy. The vital part it protects is the wiring for the oil sensor. If it were me, I'd replace it. (2) When draining the oil make sure it is warm (I do mine when its hot). Have the car level on 4 jackstands. Open the oil fill cap and open the OFH cap before opening the drain plug. This helps drain all the oil from the engine and lets more oil drain from the OFH because it releases the vacuum from the engine block as the oil drains from it. There will always be a few ounces left in the OFH that needs to be removed. A mechanics turkey baster works well to remove the oil from the housing. (3) If the car is drained when level, it does not leave near 1L of oil in the engine. It leaves only a few ounces in the oil pump and that's it. (4) Drain the engine, replace the filter and add back in 7 quarts of fresh oil. Do not add in 6 quarts then try to top off the level using the e-dipstick, the e-dipstick does not immediately update the oil level, so you can risk over filling the engine (see my thread on the topic). (5) As everyone has said, use a MANN HU-816 filter or the BMW OE filter (it is a MANN HU-816). Always replace the O-rings. Any off-brand filters end up buckling, as you witnessed with the Juffy Lube filter. NEVER TAKE A BMW TO JIFFY LUBE! NEVER!!!! (6) I second the notion that you can safely run extended OCI using the correct OE/OEM oil filter and BMW spec LL-01 oil. I have. __________________ A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission." Last edited by Efthreeoh; 09-08-2018 at 08:26 PM..
	Appreciate 1 Greyfox1207.50 Quote

09-08-2018, 11:25 PM	#5
Welcome to NBA Jam Is it the shoes!? 3884 Rep 5,112 Posts Drives: (Sold) 2011 E92 335i ZMP 6MT Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	Between the oil lines, residual oil in motor and components actuated by oil, oil in the oil cooler and lines (if applicable), oil remaining in other lines, and the oil leftover in the sump, I'm willing to bet there's nearly a liter of old oil left in the car. Last edited by Welcome to NBA Jam; 09-08-2018 at 11:49 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-09-2018, 04:53 AM	#6
WallyF First Lieutenant 97 Rep 399 Posts Drives: 2023 BMW i4 eDrive40 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Wayne, IN iTrader: (1) Garage List 2023 BMW i4 eDrive4 ... [0.00]	Plastic cover I believe the missing cover is the small access hatch and not the full cover under the engine compartment. I believe it is part # 51 75 7 140 983 and is around $16 from getbmwparts.com. I would replace it as it prevents snow and mud from covering the bottom of your transmission. Wallyf
	Appreciate 1 Efthreeoh17277.50 Quote

09-09-2018, 06:49 AM	#7
djh2 Second Lieutenant 68 Rep 298 Posts Drives: '16 330e Join Date: May 2015 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW 328i [0.00]	Another cause of crushed oil filters can be over-torquing the cap. I have seen this with MANN filters prior to purchasing an oil filter cap tool and torquing it properly.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-09-2018, 08:45 AM	#8
Efthreeoh General 17278 Rep 18,722 Posts Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster Join Date: May 2012 Location: Virginia iTrader: (0)	I can only speak to the N52 with a manual transmission because that is the engine I've removed both the top and bottom covers. I have two such engines, a 2006 (no oil cooler) and a 2008 (with oil cooler attached to the OFH). The N52's oil pump is not a conventional design and from what I've read of the design, it has very small cavities to retain any residual oil. I've removed the oil sensor on the N52 and no residual oil came out of the sump other than a few drops. I've removed the oil pan and there was no residual oil in the pan other than oil film on the pan surfaces. I've had the valve cover off and there was hardly any pooling oil in the head; it drains very well into the sump. So I definitely know the N52 holds no large amount of residual oil, and the refill procedure is to add in the full 7 quarts of oil. While I've never touched a N-series Turbo engine, I'd bet the residual oil in the turbo feed lines and bearing housings is minimal. Heat exchangers look like the hold a lot of liquid, but they don't. Most automotive heat exchangers are made of small-cavity flat-tubing so as to maximize surface area for the best heat extraction efficiency. Large open cavities in heat exchangers are less efficient. While there may be some residual oil in the oil cooling system, I doubt it is 1/7th of the engine capacity. Looking at the parts of the oil cooler for the 335i, I can see where oil will stay in the heat exchanger and lines. This is where the oil obviously would be retained, but I doubt it is more than just a few ounces (I'll guess 10 oz.). I'll check the Bentley shop manual to see if the turbo engine drain/refill procedure is different from the N52; I don't think is. If the refill procedure calls for 7 quarts for the N54/55, then I can't see why an oil drain done correctly (with the vehicle level) would not drain the 7 quarts of oil from the engine and related oil cooling system. Last edited by Efthreeoh; 09-09-2018 at 09:04 AM..
	Appreciate 1 Chappers 715477.00 Quote

09-09-2018, 01:12 PM	#12
BimmerNugget Crazy Frog 543 Rep 1,211 Posts Drives: L.L.Bean Bootmobile Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 560 State Street iTrader: (0)	Mann filter NEVER crush....period!!! Even if the oil filter cap was over tightened, the filter will not crush, the oil filter cap will just crack. That's it. The reason almost all aftermarket filters crush in an N51/N52 has to do with that little black "lip" or "ring" around the top and bottom of the filter. The filter is slightly too tall for the oil filter housing, thus when it is tightened down it will crush. Mann filters do not have that little plastic lip. Another reason to use only Mann filters is because of the o-ring. The o-ring that comes with aftermarket filters (even reputable brands like Bosch) are complete garbage. I can attest to this because when I got my car in the summer, i changed the oil with an STP oil filter from Autozone and 4 months later in November, oil started leaking out of the oil filter housing cap. The shitty STP O-ring was hardened from the cold November weather in Buffalo, NY. Oil was gushing out of the filter cap so fast. I had to get a MANN filter from the dealer and change it out ASAP. When I took the STP filter out, guess what? It was also crushed just like OP's picture. The bottom line is...MANN HU816x is the only filter you should use on these cars. At $8.50 with free shipping on eBay, there is no reason not to. I actually paid more for my garbage STP filter at autozone than the Mann filter. ($10.99 for STP). __________________ www.youtube.com/watch?v=k85mRPqvMbE
	Appreciate 2 Efthreeoh17277.50 lab_rat394.50 Quote

09-10-2018, 09:48 AM	#15
John 070 Lieutenant General 1705 Rep 14,829 Posts Drives: 335i cpe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW iTrader: (0)	I did do something stupid on one of my oil changes, and thought about it 2 days later. I took the filter and installed it in the OFH first, then tightened the cap over it. I couldn't resist, and went back and removed the cap. I don't think I lost any oil at all and the filter came off with the cap. Maybe it doesn't matter...
	Appreciate 0 Quote